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  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    I apologize if this thread has already been posted and if so, mods please delete it. I have been working round the clock trying to close three deals at the same time and have had almost no time to post on the board (i did watch the game sunday of course).

    Can anyone tell me what in the world the Big Boy, bad groin and all and critical component to our offense and any shot we have of having a real season, was doing on the field carrying the ball during garbage time in the fourth quarter of a game we were losing by 30 points? Does anyone remember the debacle a couple of years back when jackson got hurt at the end of the dallas game when the outcome was long decided?

    The risk of injury to jackson is exactly the same on every carry. Arguably higher during garbage time when players are more likely to take cheap shots. What is the point of taking that risk when the outcome is long decided?

    It was a stupid uneeded risk by spags. I understand the point of wanting to show the team that they should play hard even though the game is effectively over. That does NOT require jackson to be on the field. Google the phrase "Accident waiting to happen" and you will see a highlight of Jackson running the ball in the fourth quarter of a 30 point game (regardless of whether we are winning or losing, the point is the same).

    Coaches claim we dont need a better backup? Most of us think that is flat our wrong, but exposing our superstar in the fourth quarter of a 30 point game has no rationale logic to it of any kind. The NFL is a 16 game war of attrition. There is absolutely nothing the rams can prove or win by having jackson on the field in that situation. However, they have plenty to lose. An upside vs downside analysis of risk and reward dictates that he be on the bench and getting ready for san diego next week in those circumstances.

    ramming speed to all

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  2. #2
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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    Really? This argument, again?

    Maybe he was in because he is a bad ass warrior who is trying to set an example for younger players who haven't experienced a beatdown like this?

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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    Video Gallery

    Towards the end of his interview a reporter asks him the exact same question.

    He gets ticked off too.

    I think he thinks the reporter was questioning why he wasn't in on third down, but the reporter wanted to know why he was in the game during garbage time with his injury.

    He says he reserves the right to play whenever he wants.

    My guess would be that the Big Boy was sending a message to his team, particularly the defense, that no one on this team gives up during a game, even a blow out.

    Now, I agree with you, it should not be the players decision whether or not to play, the coaches should have sat him out. I believe Spags gives the utmost respect to Jax, and lets him determine his own reps, but there should be a time when the coaches sits a player down.

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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    who cares as long as he doesn't play wide receiver, because if he does we are doomed!
    LA RAMMER

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HNgqQVHI_8

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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Really? This argument, again?

    Maybe he was in because he is a bad ass warrior who is trying to set an example for younger players who haven't experienced a beatdown like this?
    TRUTH. Although it can be a bold decision, it something that a developing football team needs to see. The Rams DO NOT give up, ever.

    Well, at least not a non-Linehan team

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    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    Jackson should want to play and i dont criticize him for that. Its up to the coaches to do what is best for the team. When a player wants the ball on every play because he thinks he is open, does that mean the player gets what he wants? When the player doesnt want to come out of the game for a substitute does that mean he gets to stay on the field?

    The point is a criticism of spags. Bad ass warrior i agree with. Not quitting i agree with. I don't see how putting in darby means we quit. Does that mean that every time jackson comes off the field during the game to rest of because its a play for a different player we quit?

    Keep in mind that a part of my point is that Jackson is already injured and less than 100%. If jackson sits out because he is injured, does that mean we quit? If he sits out one week because he can hobble out there but then is much more likely to miss several games, does that mean we quit or does it mean that we are doing the prudent thing to give us the best chance to win the most games possible.

    These guys are professionals. They are not kids. ANyone that quits during a game should be cut. You don't need to put your superstar at risk in a 30 point game in the fourth quarter to make the point that players shouldnt quit.

    As Rams fans, we all want to win the most games possible. The way to win the most games possible is to have a healthy steven jackson as long as possible. Taking uneeded risks with a superstar getting hit when the outcome of the game is well beyond decided is simply not prudent given the violence of the nfl and the liklihood of injury at that position.



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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    gc,

    Your logic is impeccable and your arguments are flawless. It was beyond reckless to have Jackson still in the game in the midst of a blow out. And I think Spags and the entire coaching staff should be taken to task for such a risky move.

    However, I would also add what in the world was Sam Bradford doing in the same game? He should also have been sitting on the bench right next to Mr. Jackson.

    NTM this was a good time to get QB Feeley some reps and playing time considering the fact that he hasn't seen the field since the 2nd pre season game.

    I'm wondering if this isn't a case of yet more clock management woes for Spags and crew. I know Spags is intense and focused and all but somebody has to get in his ear and apprise him of the situation.

    WAHT SAY YE?

  8. #8
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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Jackson should want to play and i dont criticize him for that. Its up to the coaches to do what is best for the team. When a player wants the ball on every play because he thinks he is open, does that mean the player gets what he wants? When the player doesnt want to come out of the game for a substitute does that mean he gets to stay on the field?

    The point is a criticism of spags. Bad ass warrior i agree with. Not quitting i agree with. I don't see how putting in darby means we quit. Does that mean that every time jackson comes off the field during the game to rest of because its a play for a different player we quit?

    Keep in mind that a part of my point is that Jackson is already injured and less than 100%. If jackson sits out because he is injured, does that mean we quit? If he sits out one week because he can hobble out there but then is much more likely to miss several games, does that mean we quit or does it mean that we are doing the prudent thing to give us the best chance to win the most games possible.

    These guys are professionals. They are not kids. ANyone that quits during a game should be cut. You don't need to put your superstar at risk in a 30 point game in the fourth quarter to make the point that players shouldnt quit.

    As Rams fans, we all want to win the most games possible. The way to win the most games possible is to have a healthy steven jackson as long as possible. Taking uneeded risks with a superstar getting hit when the outcome of the game is well beyond decided is simply not prudent given the violence of the nfl and the liklihood of injury at that position.



    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    You are wrong. Most of them ARE kids ....

    There is a difference between quitting and being discouraged or demoralized ...

    Jackson was setting a real live example on the field ....

  9. #9
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    In an article by Bill Coats, Spags acknowledges he could have done things differently regarding Jackson's on-field time but simply "got caught up in the competitiveness of running the offense".

    I think we must understand the difference between "quitting" and simply living to fight another day. No player or coach with an ounce of self respect would ever pack it in. At the same time, when you're getting drilled by 25-35 points late in the game, there simply is no purpose being served by leaving your meal ticket out there and risk injury- especially when the guy's groin isn't 100%. You're not winning the game no matter how much you try or how much positive thinking you employ. I wouldn't look at taking him out as being "gutless' or "cowardly". Quite the contrary, I would think of it as being sensible.

    Jackson's teammates and Rams fans know what a warrior he is. He doesn't need to be in there during garbage time and risk injury to prove that to me.

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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    The fact that they are young doesnt mean that they arent professionals, and again, you are missing my point. Its not about jackson wanting to set an example, its about spags wanting to make sure that the Rams are in the best position to have the best season possible, which means winning the most games, not leaving your irreplaceable guys in to the bitter end of a game that is clearly lost. As the prior poster said, its about living to fight another day.

    Watch an nfl game and tell me how many times you see a guy like jackson in the game with a 30 point spread in the fourth quarter. There is a reason that backups play in blowouts, especially when the star player is already injured.

    I would also point out that giving the backups a chance to play should encourage them by giving them experience and confidence so they are better suited to contribute when and if they are required to enter into a game in a situation that might actually impact the outcome of the game.

    ramming speed to all

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  11. #11
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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    Does anyone remember the debacle a couple of years back when jackson got hurt at the end of the dallas game when the outcome was long decided?
    That's exactly what I was thinking of while I was watching the game, GC. And I think you're 100% right on the money here.

    The Rams depend on Steven Jackson as their featured workhorse back. There's no reason for him to be out there taking a beating and exposing himself to further potential for harm when the game has clearly been decided, one way or another.

    After the Lions took a 38-point lead with seven minutes left to go in the game, the Rams still proceeded to run Jackson four more times for some reason, despite seeing Calvin Johnson and Ron Bartell leave the field earlier in the fourth quarter when the score was 31-6. In the Rams' final offensive drive of the game, Cliff Avril had to be carted off the field, but the Rams still proceeded to leave Jackson in and fed him the ball twice on runs.

    The 2008 Dallas game is a perfect example of what can happen when you unnecessarily expose critical players to further punishment after the game has been decided. In 2008, despite being up 34-7 with eight minutes to go in the game, the Rams left Jackson in the game and he suffered a quadriceps injury that sidelined him for four games that season.

    The Rams seem to insist that they're satisfied with the current personnel behind Jackson, so why not sit Steven - who is already playing through an injury, mind you - and let them fill in when the game is already decided? I mean, why have these guys if you're not going to use them, especially when the game is decided and you're only risking further injury to your offensive stud?

    Simply put, it was an irresponsible move by the coaching staff.
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    Re: Steven Jackson- Fourth Quarter

    I think Spags went beyond just admitting he could have done things different in his press conference.

    I think he said he was wrong, if he could do it over he would pull him and that a game like the one they had against Detroit was a learning experience for everyone including him.

    I agree we should have pulled Jackson but I'm OK with leaving Bradford in. Him and the receivers need all the practice they can get.

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