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  1. #1
    VegasRam's Avatar
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    Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    ...but (sigh) probably will.

    1. Torry Holt is basically a non-factor due to his knee.
    (you mean like last year?)

    2. Steven Jackson should do less talking and more producing.
    (does not even deserve a response.)

    3. Alex Barron is a bust.
    (let's see - after Fred Miller and before Barron" we had...?
    Next question?)

    4. Our secondary is suspect - (whatever that means)
    (Our secondary is good, period (by any standard), and improving.)

    5. We overpaid for Drew Bennet.
    (I agree, i just don't want to hear it anymore)

    6. Klopfenstein is a bust.
    (will be proven false when he leaves and lights it up on another team)

    7. Anyone Linehan has ever known is a FOSL, and therefore, worthless.
    (Linehan is the only coach in the NFL that hires people he knows, unlike someone like...oh, let's say...Parcells?)

    8. Bulger has no long ball.
    (I don't know where to begin, but how about no speed at reciever and no time to throw, for starters.)

    9. Witherspoon is not a middle linebacker.
    (The position he actually has played most of, both at Georgis and Carolina. Look it up. And where...I might add...he's doing a pretty good job for the Rams)

    10. Here's my list of the ten things that...

    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  2. #2
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    1. Torry Holt is basically a non-factor due to his knee.
    (you mean like last year?)
    Well, yeah. Holt's 2007 yardage and touchdown totals put him roughly in the same ballpark as Roddy White (whose 14.5 ypc was significantly better than Holt's 12.8), Tony Gonzalez (while Huard or Croyle or whoever it was throwing to him), and Bobby Engram. Yes, he ranked in the top 10 by yards last season, but he was 94th on NFL.com's list sorted by yards/catch. Granted that counts a number of players whose stats are skewed because they had few catches, but it also includes a whole lot of guys who got the ball on a regular basis. I mean guys like Ronald Curry of the Raiders were getting more yards per catch, and it wasn't because we were only sending Holt out on short routes. In my opinion that is a testament to where his speed is at right now.

    And his stats were still surprisingly good compared to what he looked like on the field--not jumping for catchable balls, not reaching for what might have been a tough catch if he had attempted it, never getting much separation, no run after the catch ever. He got 1,189 yards because we threw his way a lot more than anyone else. He caught 40 more balls than Bruce, even though Bruce got half a yard more per catch on average. I like Holt as a player, but I did not like what I saw last year.

    3. Really now, with Barron...When your biggest claim to fame is being an upgrade from a group of guys collectively referred to as "the turnstile at right tackle", that isn't saying much. Now last year was a really bad year for the line, right? I mean we allowed 48 sacks, which is just appalling compared to the 49 sacks we allowed in 2006 or the 46 sacks we allowed in 2005! I'm just saying...we haven't finished better than 27th in sacks allowed since Barron got here. Of course, that isn't all on him, but he has been among the league leaders in penalties, and he has not played like you'd expect from a first round pick.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -06-25-2008 at 06:59 PM.

  3. #3
    YodaRam Guest
    That's cool Vegas. Is it o.k. if i keep ragging our special teams, though? It amazes me that special teams seem to rate so low on the totem pole of importance. Special teams can and do influence, not only field position, but team momentum. All of this happens in ONE play! I know it can be a "hodge-podge" by committee approach but it shouldn't be viewed as an afterthought. I know "they" said that they've been addressing that in the past but have they really?



    RAM ON!
    Last edited by YodaRam; -06-25-2008 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #4
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    I dont think its fair to say holt is a "non-factor" and i really havent read that very often at all. What I have read, and what i agree with, is that Holt is nowhere near as effective as he was at his peak and that his future performance is suspect based on his deteriorating knee problem. I dont know how anyone could watch Holt and contend that he has breakaway speed. He is basically an elite possession receiver with a bad knee who is on the wrong side of age 30 (from a football perspective).

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  5. #5
    VegasRam's Avatar
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    Well, yeah. Holt's 2007 yardage and touchdown totals put him roughly in the same ballpark as Roddy White (whose 14.5 ypc was significantly better than Holt's 12.8), Tony Gonzalez (while Huard or Croyle or whoever it was throwing to him), and Bobby Engram. Yes, he ranked in the top 10 by yards last season, but he was 94th on NFL.com's list sorted by yards/catch. Granted that counts a number of players whose stats are skewed because they had few catches, but it also includes a whole lot of guys who got the ball on a regular basis. I mean guys like Ronald Curry of the Raiders were getting more yards per catch, and it wasn't because we were only sending Holt out on short routes. In my opinion that is a testament to where his speed is at right now.

    And his stats were still surprisingly good compared to what he looked like on the field--not jumping for catchable balls, not reaching for what might have been a tough catch if he had attempted it, never getting much separation, no run after the catch ever. He got 1,189 yards because we threw his way a lot more than anyone else. He caught 40 more balls than Bruce, even though Bruce got half a yard more per catch on average. I like Holt as a player, but I did not like what I saw last year.

    3. Really now, with Barron...When your biggest claim to fame is being an upgrade from a group of guys collectively referred to as "the turnstile at right tackle", that isn't saying much. Now last year was a really bad year for the line, right? I mean we allowed 48 sacks, which is just appalling compared to the 49 sacks we allowed in 2006 or the 46 sacks we allowed in 2005! I'm just saying...we haven't finished better than 27th in sacks allowed since Barron got here. Of course, that isn't all on him, but he has been among the league leaders in penalties, and he has not played like you'd expect from a first round pick.
    Point is, holt is still a factor, and given last year's situation, I'd say his stats were VERY good.

    Barron is a B-, C+ player, which is NOT a bust, regardless of draft round.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  6. #6
    VegasRam's Avatar
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by YodaRam View Post
    That's cool Vegas. Is it o.k. if i keep ragging our special teams, though? It amazes me that special teams seem to rate so low on the totem pole of importance. Special teams can and do influence, not only field position, but team momentum. All of this happens in ONE play! I know it can be a "hodge-podge" by committee approach but it shouldn't be viewed as an afterthought. I know "they" said that they've been addressing that in the past but have they really?



    RAM ON!
    An unequivocal YES. Rams' Special Teams remain a mystery to me.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  7. #7
    VegasRam's Avatar
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I dont think its fair to say holt is a "non-factor" and i really havent read that very often at all. What I have read, and what i agree with, is that Holt is nowhere near as effective as he was at his peak and that his future performance is suspect based on his deteriorating knee problem. I dont know how anyone could watch Holt and contend that he has breakaway speed. He is basically an elite possession receiver with a bad knee who is on the wrong side of age 30 (from a football perspective).

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    Agree with everything you said. It just seems that every time the Rams' receivers are analysed, Holt is basically dismissed.

    I disagree's all.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  8. #8
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    think the problem with linny hiring his "mates" is who his mates are not the fact he`s hiring them...

    parcells-Belichick,Payton,Fox,Zimmer etc

    linny-Olson,Loney,Roberts,Art (whats his face?)..

    *scurries to the bathroom for a razor blade*....

  9. #9
    Renee Rogers is offline Registered User
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    How about Berlin will be the starting QB?

  10. #10
    RAMarkable is online now Registered User
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renee Rogers View Post
    How about Berlin will be the starting QB?
    Only if he can regain his eligibilty and play again for Evangel Christian High. Besides after suffering thru the Dieter BROCK years, I am patently against any QB with 'Brock' anywhere in his name ever playing for the Rams again.

    WHAT SAY YE?

  11. #11
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    3. Really now, with Barron...When your biggest claim to fame is being an upgrade from a group of guys collectively referred to as "the turnstile at right tackle", that isn't saying much. Now last year was a really bad year for the line, right? I mean we allowed 48 sacks, which is just appalling compared to the 49 sacks we allowed in 2006 or the 46 sacks we allowed in 2005! I'm just saying...we haven't finished better than 27th in sacks allowed since Barron got here. Of course, that isn't all on him, but he has been among the league leaders in penalties, and he has not played like you'd expect from a first round pick.

    I really don't get the Barron bashing, I guess I just dont see what you guys see. He does get a lot of penalties we all know that but he is far from a turnstile at right tackle. In fact he rarely gives up sacks when hes over there. He stonewalled Julius Peppers last year. Hardly heard the guys name mentioned when Barron was blocking him. Barron is far from a bust at right tackle. He's not as good at left tackle but that's where Pace belongs. Most the sacks the Rams have givenup in recent years are on the left or up the middle and especially with Pace gone. Barron is fine at RT all he has to do is cut the penalties and mental mistakes and he is fine. Fred Miller turned out to be pretty good for the Titans if I do recall. I hate it when we give up on young guys after a couple years then they go to another team and flourish. Good things come to those who wait. I like Barron and RT so call me crazy but he's just fine there minus the penalties of course.
    Just Fix It

  12. #12
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Only if he can regain his eligibilty and play again for Evangel Christian High. Besides after suffering thru the Dieter BROCK years, I am patently against any QB with 'Brock' anywhere in his name ever playing for the Rams again.

    WHAT SAY YE?

    Id let Brock play again for us...but if, and only if, Bulger, Green, Gradkowski all went down, Hagans and Bennett couldnt fill in, and if Testaverde didnt feel like getting off his couch once again. After all that id let Brock get behind center, and only to hand the ball off to jackson. He has a promising career ahead of him....


  13. #13
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    I really don't get the Barron bashing, I guess I just dont see what you guys see. He does get a lot of penalties we all know that but he is far from a turnstile at right tackle. In fact he rarely gives up sacks when hes over there. He stonewalled Julius Peppers last year. Hardly heard the guys name mentioned when Barron was blocking him. Barron is far from a bust at right tackle. He's not as good at left tackle but that's where Pace belongs. Most the sacks the Rams have givenup in recent years are on the left or up the middle and especially with Pace gone. Barron is fine at RT all he has to do is cut the penalties and mental mistakes and he is fine. Fred Miller turned out to be pretty good for the Titans if I do recall. I hate it when we give up on young guys after a couple years then they go to another team and flourish. Good things come to those who wait. I like Barron and RT so call me crazy but he's just fine there minus the penalties of course.
    The way I see it, Barron has had a few games where he has done really well against top tier talent. On the other hand, I want to say it was 2006 that I saw at least one 3-4 team get a pair of sacks off his side just rushing the three--and we're not talking coverage sack because the defender was there almost by the time Bulger finished his dropback. At times he's very good. Often he's pretty mediocre.

    Incognito just needs to cut down on the penalties a little bit; Barron on the other hand is among the worst offenders in the league when it comes to penalties. Losing 5-10 yards over and again kills drives. It's not a small problem. It has been suggested ever since he got here that he doesn't like to work real hard in the weight room. Although Bulger never spelled out who he was talking about when he sniped at certain members of the offensive line for lack of effort back in 2006, a lot of people assumed Barron was one of the main culprits. Now that's not proof in and of itself, but it really is significant that when people hear someone on the team isn't putting in enough effort, Alex's name is likely to be the first to come to mind. He's a decent pass blocker for a right tackle but not a particularly aggressive run blocker, and I'm not entirely convinced Steussie at 37 didn't outplay Barron last season.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -06-28-2008 at 07:41 AM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    thing with Barron that fans find so frustrating is he has the ability...if he was a second day pick with less ability but playing his heart out for us every down,then not one person would "bash" him!

    look at Setterstrom for example..he is far from an alan faneca or steve hutchinson but you wont hear anyone bash him!

  15. #15
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    Re: Ten things I never want to hear (read) again...

    This is slightly off topic, BUT I don't ever want to see another opinion on any subject by "Greg Cook".
    Let the hype begin.

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