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  1. #151
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    Let me ask you a question.

    What is justifiable about calling all of us in the area terrible fans?

    I thought I wasn't going to post again to this, but as the most popular thing to do here seems to be to try and out do each other in calling people like me terrible fans, I'm going to have to post to it. I'm holding back an enormous amount of what I want to say, because I want to be more respectful than I believe a lot of the posters in this thread have been.

    I will say this. At no time in the past have I ever considered leaving this forum.

    That has changed.
    Again, for the 100th time, I personally am not calling you out, but I am calling out all those "fans" that were not there to support the team or claimed to be GSOT fans or what have you. I'm NOT questioning your allegiance to the team, but I have to say, alot of the "fanbase" in the STL,...well, that's quesionable.


  2. #152
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    I'll apologize for (nearly) freaking out on people here (trust me, what I've said so far has been rather restrained). Maybe it will help people understand if I explain why I'm taking this personally.

    I'm part of the St.Louis fan base. I only ever got into football because the Rams moved to St. Louis, so when people tell me the "fan base" doesn't deserve the team, I don't really see how to seperate that from saying "I" don't deserve to be a fan of the team since I *am* part of the St.Louis fan base, being as I live an hour away. I *don't* take personally someone saying they find it amazing and frustrating that there weren't a ton of fans there on Sunday, that I understand. Saying the St.Louis fan base is "terrible" or "lousy" or "shameful" is saying that of the *entire* Fan base. Given that you have to later come back and say "I didn't mean all St.Louis fans, just some of them" should tell your language is extremely broad and sweeping.

    It's rather like saying: "I think LA didn't deserve the Rams." Which would be saying *all LA Fans* didn't deserve the Rams, and then I'd have to come back and say "well no I didn't mean you specifically" because my language was overly sweeping.

    I love this team, they got me into football (the only sport I watch). However, I don't have a job, so as much as I would have loved to have been there on sunday, I just can't afford the trip. It's not just ticket prices or availability, it's the cost of the entire experience. Paying for food, for the large amount of gas it takes and the food on the way back since I live an hour away, that's a *lot* of money that I can't just spend at will.

    So if you mean to say that you find it frustrating, and you think the people who chose not go to the Rams game because they just didn't care are bad fans, then say that. No one here is going to take offense (I'm not alone in being frustrated with this thread)

    But don't be surprised when you say things like "the st.louis fans are pathetic" and people who live in the area take it personally.

  3. #153
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    Rams fans in St. Louis should feel very lucky that they have the chance to go to many home games because they live so close to the stadium. Financial problems is understandable, but when you can indulge on new furniture or buy a new T.V, I don't see why you can't make a home game.

    Many, many Rams fans in other states would kill to be able to be so close to the stadium, but unfortunately we are not, and plane tickets are very expensive.

    Every opportunity you St. Louisians can get, go to the Dome. Please.



    Oh and by the way, what's with the horror stories coming out from the Ed Jones Stadium about how Rams fans who cheer loud and are more enthusiastic and are far more passionate gets dirty looks from other Rams fans who remain sitting and chatting and texting on their phones for the whole game?

    Sheesh, I've seen high school football games with the majority of fans standing the whole time, shouting their lungs out, being semi-obnoxious, and rooting passionately for their team.
    Rockin ram its true, I flew all the way from California, back in 2003 for my 1st ever RAM game, with the wife, and let me tell you, every time I stood up to cheer, these idiots would tell me to sit down. Are they"real rams" fans, you decide....I was very disappointed in the STL passion.

  4. #154
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    I'll apologize for (nearly) freaking out on people here (trust me, what I've said so far has been rather restrained). Maybe it will help people understand if I explain why I'm taking this personally.

    I'm part of the St.Louis fan base. I only ever got into football because the Rams moved to St. Louis, so when people tell me the "fan base" doesn't deserve the team, I don't really see how to seperate that from saying "I" don't deserve to be a fan of the team since I *am* part of the St.Louis fan base, being as I live an hour away. I *don't* take personally someone saying they find it amazing and frustrating that there weren't a ton of fans there on Sunday, that I understand. Saying the St.Louis fan base is "terrible" or "lousy" or "shameful" is saying that of the *entire* Fan base. Given that you have to later come back and say "I didn't mean all St.Louis fans, just some of them" should tell your language is extremely broad and sweeping.

    It's rather like saying: "I think LA didn't deserve the Rams." Which would be saying *all LA Fans* didn't deserve the Rams, and then I'd have to come back and say "well no I didn't mean you specifically" because my language was overly sweeping.

    I love this team, they got me into football (the only sport I watch). However, I don't have a job, so as much as I would have loved to have been there on sunday, I just can't afford the trip. It's not just ticket prices or availability, it's the cost of the entire experience. Paying for food, for the large amount of gas it takes and the food on the way back since I live an hour away, that's a *lot* of money that I can't just spend at will.

    So if you mean to say that you find it frustrating, and you think the people who chose not go to the Rams game because they just didn't care are bad fans, then say that. No one here is going to take offense (I'm not alone in being frustrated with this thread)

    But don't be surprised when you say things like "the st.louis fans are pathetic" and people who live in the area take it personally.
    I don't remember "generalizing" and saying that all the fanbase is pathetic, read my posts,but the fan support this Sunday, was not exactly what I'd call "supportive"....

  5. #155
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Not referring to just you (see what I mean about specific language?) but I've been involved in this thread since post one, so I'm speaking to the thread readers that I've been dealing with most frequently.

  6. #156
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    I think its time this thread goes... nothing but useless trouble here.

  7. #157
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by bluetalon View Post
    pardon me for interrupting, but what the heck are psl seats?
    prefered seating liscense

  8. #158
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Some of you act like the Rams are the only team in the league that has PSL's ...

    There is a website where you can buy them called "seasonticketrights" dotcom ...

    You think Ram PSL's are expensive? That's funny, cheapest in the league. I bought my 4 PSL's, Section 440, true 50 yard line, on the aisle for $1400 TOTAL ...

    I find it funny how only in St. Louis the PSL seats don't get filled or sold off to other fans.

    Those citing PSL's as a reason for the poor showing by St. Louis fans, please stop. You're clueless ....

  9. #159
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Some of you act like the Rams are the only team in the league that has PSL's ...

    There is a website where you can buy them called "seasonticketrights" dotcom ...

    You think Ram PSL's are expensive? That's funny, cheapest in the league. I bought my 4 PSL's, Section 440, true 50 yard line, on the aisle for $1400 TOTAL ...

    I find it funny how only in St. Louis the PSL seats don't get filled or sold off to other fans.

    Those citing PSL's as a reason for the poor showing by St. Louis fans, please stop. You're clueless ....
    RI makes a good point here,many teams have PSL's and don't you think that a brand new billion dollar stadium in LA will to,because they will and they will be expensive,I to got a great deal as I bought 2 psl's 4 years ago in section 422 for $250 for BOTH, and another point to make is these seats are already paid for so does Stan care who is sitting in them because he is making his money either way,having said that I do agree that the Rams fans need to do a better job of supporting there team and I think they will.

  10. #160
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Not wanting to dilute this thread but


    A personal seat license, or PSL, gives the holder the right to buy season tickets for a certain seat in a stadium. This holder can sell the seat license to someone else if they no longer wish to purchase season tickets.[1] However, if the seat license holder chooses not to sell the seat licenses and does not renew the season tickets, the holder forfeits the license back to the team. Most seat licenses are valid for as long as the team plays in the current venue.

    Seat licenses have been given various names- the most common term in North America is Personal Seat License and in Europe is Debenture. The primary reason sporting venues offer PSLs is that the proceeds are used to help pay the debt incurred during the construction of the stadium or arena. Opponents of PSLs see this as another way to extract money from the sports fans.

    NFL Seat Licenses (PSL)

    Baltimore Ravens PSL avg 71,247
    Carolina Panthers PSL avg 72,620
    Chicago Bears PSL avg 62,178
    Cincinnati Bengals COA (Charter Ownership Agreements) avg 61,246
    Cleveland Browns PSL avg 65,933
    Dallas Cowboys SL (Seat Licenses) (Effective at Cowboys Stadium only.) avg 87,047
    Green Bay Packers PSL avg 70,813
    New York Giants PSL (Effective in the New Meadowlands Stadium only. Buying Giants PSL does NOT give ticket rights for Jets.) avg 79,019
    New York Jets PSL (Effective in the New Meadowlands Stadium only. Policies differ from the Giants. Buying Jets PSL does NOT give ticket rights for Giants.) avg 78,535
    Houston Texans PSL avg 71,088
    Philadelphia Eagles SBL (Stadium Builder Licenses) avg 69,144
    Pittsburgh Steelers SL avg 63,274
    Seattle Seahawks CSL (Charter Seat Licenses) avg 66,945
    St. Louis Rams PSL avg 52,937
    Tennessee Titans PSL avg 69,143


    Origin of Seat Licenses
    There are varying accounts as to the origin of the personal seat license.

    According to one account, the first personal seat license plan was developed in 1986 at Stanford University by legendary tennis coach Dick Gould. Seeking financing for a new tennis stadium, Gould came up with the idea of selling the rights to seats, a licensing plan under which purchaser's name is engraved in the seat, and the purchaser owns the right to have first choice for tickets for any event held in the stadium.

    According to a second account, the permanent seat license was invented by a Columbus, Ohio architect, Rick Ohanian, in January 1987. Ohanian described his plan in a Letter to The Editor of the Columbus Dispatch, published on March 2, 1987, entitled "Ticketbond is Answer to Financing Proposed Facility".

    According to a third account, the permanent seat license was invented by Charlotte sports marketing agent, Max Muhleman, in 1993. Muhleman is credited as the founder of the first PSL's at Charlotte's then Carolinas Stadium.

    Others cite similar programs that were in existence among many college fund raising activities prior to 1987. However, the early programs were tax-deductible donations to a scholarship fund, in which case the main "quid-pro-quo" was between the donation and the resultant deduction, not between the donation and the actual seating rights.

    And one thing to note.

    The stated seating capacity of the Edward Jones Dome is 70,000 so that could mean that the Rams, who's avg seating attendance is 52,937 (this includes PSL's) have over 17,000 seats for sale for each game!


  11. #161
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Thanks Dez for this thread.

    OK. Here's what I think I know:

    I live in Minneapolis (originally from L.A.). I work in Real Estate ( we all know how that is these days) and my wife works in HR. We have 2 young kids, 4 dogs, a diabetic cat, and a hedgehog named Hazel. Money is not pouring in to this household. However, I tend to make a couple of Rams games a year. I see A LOT of empty seats!!! I've also seen A LOT of opposing fans in PSL seats. So, this says to me that the fans in and around St Louis either can't afford to go to games, or can't be bothered to go to games.

    As I said, I live in Minneapolis. I've attended my fair share of Vikings games (it's mandatory if you want to live here). Even when the Vikings are playing poorly, the dome is PACKED with vikings fans. There is a reason that opposing teams do not like playing here. It's loud and the fans are rabid. Even when the team hasn't been playing well they EXPECT their team to win, and are extremely disappointed when that doesn't happen. But no matter what...THEY KEEP SHOWING UP TO GAMES. When the dome collapsed the other week, and the game was moved to Detroit, Vikings fans filled up 4 charter jets to get to the game. Many more drove...IN THE SNOW. There are MANY fans here that own season tickets that live in DULUTH. That's 4 hours north of Minneapolis. They make it to games. I've talked to quite a few that wouldn't miss a game. I personally know 4 families that have had season tickets since the Vikings arrived here in 1960. They don't miss games. I have NEVER seen a game here, either in person or on TV, where the number of opposing fans even came close to the number of Vikings fans, that includes Green Bay and Chicago games.

    So, when I can make a couple of games a year in STL, and I see the fan support for the team here in Minnesota, I get a bit frustrated with what I see in St Louis. If you attend the games, or just can't afford to attend the games, this thread is NOT attacking you. But you have got to see that, on the whole, at this point in time, St Louis is not doing even a fair job of supporting their team. I doesn't matter a lick if L.A. would do any better. The fact is, if St louis doesn't, some other city might get the chance. If you frequent this site, you should be as angry about the lousy fan attendance as anyone else. So, as someone here has already said, turn your anger outward, call the local radio shows and vent your frustration. Stop trying to explain to us how good a fan you are, WE KNOW. You wouldn't be here if you weren't. Those that live in the STL area need to try to start mobilizing the local fan base.

    Ok, I have to go now. the dogs need to go out, and the cat needs his shot if insulin.
    Last edited by Truth; -12-22-2010 at 11:34 AM.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  12. #162
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Nice insight into your personal experiences with both fan bases, Truth.

    Dez said on page five that this isn't a personal comment, but commentary on the overall local fan base of the Rams. I said on the same page that if someone isn't able to buy a ticket or can't financially do it, that's understandable and chances are this criticism isn't directed at that person.

    If, six pages later, people are still upset and taking it personally, I don't know what to tell them. The Rams rank 30th in home attendance. Other fans notice it, the media notices it, and even the players notice it. But I guess we're just supposed to tip-toe around it here.

    There are many people on this board who live across the country/world who aren't able to make it to Rams games. When we turn on a Rams game and see vast numbers of empty seats in the dome, in what's easily this team's best season in five years, it's pretty disappointing and frustrating.

    Especially when, as Truth said, other fan bases don't seem to have problems supporting their teams even through rough times. If there are reasons why you personally can't make it to a game - finances, transportation, family issues, whatever - that's fine. I don't think it's a stretch to say this rant probably was not meant directly for you, so don't continue making it about you.

    It's about a fan base as a whole that just isn't showing up, and you can't tell me those conditions apply to everyone. People blame the economy, but other fanbases don't have problems finding enough people able to go to their games. People blame the PSLs for keeping seats from hardcore fans, yet it's taken me all of 30 seconds to find two web sites where I can find numerous tickets for $40 or less.

    I really hope that this team continues to improve, and that improvement draws more local Rams fans to the stadium so that the team feels their support. Because it didn't seem like they were feeling it on Sunday, on a day when they really could have used it.

  13. #163
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by LaRamsFanLongTime View Post
    You are taking things as a personal attack??? Why do you feel guilty? The only reason you should be defensive is if you feel guilty. No one is calling you out. I think it is pretty obvious though that the stadium should be full of Rams Fans not Cheifs fans.
    Your mom's a crack ho'.

    Whoa, now, don't get upset; I'm not talking about you.....just your mom.



    Sorta the same thing, LRFLT. What some of you guys consider sniping from the west coast is actually carpet bombing to the boots on the ground in St. Louis. You can't say "St. Louis fans suck" on one hand and then on the other say, "Oh, but not you. You're cool." The St. Louis folks on this board ARE St. Louis fans. So it's not really reasonable to separate the two when generalizations are being thrown around.

    Was Sunday's "sea of red" (be it jerseys or seats) embarassing? Absolutely.
    Can one conclude that St. Louis fans are any less so than fans from other locales? Absolutely not.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #164
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Your mom's a crack ho'.

    Whoa, now, don't get upset; I'm not talking about you.....just your mom.



    Sorta the same thing, LRFLT. What some of you guys consider sniping from the west coast is actually carpet bombing to the boots on the ground in St. Louis. You can't say "St. Louis fans suck" on one hand and then on the other say, "Oh, but not you. You're cool." The St. Louis folks on this board ARE St. Louis fans. So it's not really reasonable to separate the two when generalizations are being thrown around.

    Was Sunday's "sea of red" (be it jerseys or seats) embarassing? Absolutely.
    Can one conclude that St. Louis fans are any less so than fans from other locales? Absolutely not.

    WOW, that's a stretch for a comparison.

    Fine, if you feel that the STL fans on this site are just as culpable for the incredibly poor home game support as anyone else in STL, have it your way. ALL the fans in St Louis are horrible. Does that somehow make you feel better? It doesn't make any sense, but here you go. All some of us are trying to say is the team needs to see better support at home games (Steven Jackson has even commented on the lack of home game support). It's not a snipe from any other coast or locale.

    I seem to remember quite a few STL fans laughing and pointing fingers at the LA fans for their poor support of the team when it was on the West Coast. They were perfectly content to point out that the Rams wouldn't have left LA if they would have gotten fan support. I'm not saying either side is right. Nor am I saying that it matters at this point. I am saying to those fans "Put up, or shut up." I don't live in STL or LA, and I don't care where this team plays, I'll still be a fan. Just like I have been since 1965. I just want to see my team supported at home. As I said before, if the economy in STL is such that the fan base cannot afford to attend games, so be it. Then STL probably can't afford to host an NFL team. If it's just that the fans in STL aren't willing to go to games unless the Rams are winning, I don't see how you can say you are any better than the fans left behind in LA. And you're certainly not as good as fans in Minnesota, Green Bay, Chicago, Cleveland, NY, New Orleans, even **gulp** the Whiners, and a host of other cities that seem to be able to support teams even when they're not at the top of their game

    If I'm Stan Kronke, and I see this kind of support (or lack thereof)for the team, I'm looking west. Not because I think the fans are better, but because of the revenue I can generate, even if my team ISN"T #1, in the second largest market in the country. If the team is on the rise, and Stan plans on keeping them there, this is STL's chance. If the fans in STL can't see that, that's a shame. You'll probably wind up losing another franchise. And, I don't think STL would get another chance.

    I challenge ALL Rams fans to attend as many games, home and away, as possible. Please keep the team in STL. It's closer for me.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

  15. #165
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    Re: Terrible terrible Ram fans

    What do you guys not understand here. You CAN NOT say that the st louis area rams fan base is terrible and not expect the st louis area ram fan base on here not to freak out and get upset. Does not work that way. You can say you were disappointed with the turnout because everyone was. But to say that the st louis rams fan base is terrible is a direct slap in the face to me and everyone close to st louis.

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