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  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    RamsFan 16, i would appreciate if you would clarify your prior comment regarding timmerman when you stated "that timmerman didnt play do well when he was "in there".

    Were you referring to his performance in 2006 or his historical performance. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt for a minute and assume that you were only referring to last year, because if you are referring to his historical perfomance on the rams, i am going to blast away.


    When you were in grade school, adam timmerman was a critical component in turning around a pathetic offensive line that helped us win a world title. The guy has left his blood and guts on the field for the horns. I wonder how you would feel if you had grown up and gotten a job and then been fired after taking less money than the market would bear in the first place to stay with that team or company. Your "get over it" advice and your comment about his age is extremely insensitive. He is a human being ramsfan16, not just a football player and getting fired isnt fun when you have done as much for an organization and community as timmerman and his wife have.

    I have been watching the rams for over 30 years. Timmerman will go down as one of the great rams offensive linemen. Is he as good as tom mack? Probably not. But he was a true warrior that left it all out on the field and was a terrific player for a long time. Did you see tom mack at the end of his career rams fan 16? Did you see how far downhill he went?

    If you want to say that timmerman was below average as a starting guard in the 2005 and 2006 seasons i agree with that 100%. But dont you dare say that he didnt do well when he was here. Your youth and exuberance are fundementally a good thing on this board and i typically like reading a lot of your stuff, but i hope this isnt another one of your sweeping generalizations that offer expert opinions on events that happened before you were in your formative football viewing years. There is no way for you at your age to have a historical perspective on how well timmerman has played over the years for the rams. I am not suggesting that you are making that point, only asking you to clarify, because i do agree with you on his performance recently.

    Please note that timmerman is NOT complaining about loosing his starting job, he is upset at being cut. The fact that other guys did better than him isnt the point. The point is are the guys being kept as backups better than him and that is where i am not so sure, especially given my personal preference for experience.

    Here is my problem with the timmerman release. What are we going to do with the cap savings? We are plenty under the cap and there arent quality players for us to spend the money on. We will sign a couple of guys at the margain, but the 1.3 million we just saved on timmerman isnt going to make a difference. If we just saved 1.3 million so that georgia can put that money in her pocket, which is what i see as the most likely scenario, i think its a bad move.

    Whats going to happen if god forbid incognitio reinjures his knee? Do you really want adam goldberg as a starting guard? Are you expert enough to tell me that he is better than timmerman at that position? You want claude terrell instead? THe guy cant even get himself in shape. Some unknown rookie?

    I admit i am being emotional as this is an emotional topic for me. I am not objective. Maybe goldberg is better than timmerman at this point. I just dont want to get hung up on the 1.3 million cap savings. I dont think it makes any difference at all to the rams. I am a bigger believer in loyalty than many others. Timmerman would still be a very valuable backup. Would i sign him for 3.5 million today? Of course not. But given what we are paying to cut him and what we are saving, i dont see why we wouldnt want that experience for depth. I might have a different view if steussie was already under contract since i think steussie is more valuable given that he can play two positions, but i for one would have no problem carrying timmerman another year based on what he has done for the team if all we are going to save is 1.2 million in cap and given what i view as at best a marginal difference between goldberg and timmerman.

    In summary, the decision to cut timmerman is a point on which reasonable people can disagree. how much to value youth vs. experience, how much has timmerman deteriorated from the perspective of a backup, how much upside does goldberg have. These are all valid discussion points.

    However, the 1.2 million savings isnt going to mean a thing and I just hope that no one, ramsfan16 or otherwise, is suggesting that timmerman has been anything less than a great player during his tenure, viewed as a whole, for the rams. I never engage in personal attacks on this board and i am not intending to attack ramsfan16 here, that is why i am phrasing this very carefully and asking him to clarify his view. I really do respect ramsfan16 and i think that for the most part, his participation on this board makes it a better place for everyone most of the time.

    ramming speed to all, i will really miss adam timmerman (by the way, i think setterstrom is a worthy successor)

    general counsel



  2. #2
    tanus is offline Registered User
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    GC, first off great post!

    However, I don't think you can look at the cap savings for just this year alone. You have to look at it for future years as well. Sure we may have only saved 1.3 million this year, but what would have been his cap charge next year? Now, that is completely gone.

    I'm sad to see Timmerman go as well, but I think the timing is right. He was being paid too much for his current production imo.

  3. #3
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    It is sad to see one of the great Ram OL go out this way, but I don't think Timmerman would have accepted a secondary role on this team.
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


    "HIT HARD, HIT FAST, AND HIT OFTEN"
    Adm. William "Bull" Halsey

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    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    ramman68, what makes you say that? Has timmerman ever been anything other than a team player in your opinion? Did he complain when he lost his job? Isnt he entitled to compete for a starting spot? I see ZERO evidence to suggest that he would have been a negative influence on the team as a backup and plenty of reason to believe that his experience could have been very valuable in helping the younger guys and providing insurance in case someone got hurt.

    As for his future cap value, the cap hit gets lower as time goes on, not greater, since the pro rated portion of the signing bonus decreases when there is less time left on the agreement.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    I'm not thrilled with Timmerman being released...I understand Linehan wants to show that he's ready to move on from the glory players from that past but I still think it is a crappy thing to do. He'd be a great backup/mentor.....yeah he's getting old and all that, but the same can be said about Faulk as well. Both are getting older, and from what I've seen some people want Faulk to go but want Timmerman back. It makes perfect sense...I want it that way too, why? Because for one Faulk (although he'd be a phenomenal mentor) isn't really needed because we have a lot of talent with RB and frankly we survived without him. Jackson proved himself, its as simple as that, and Linehan wants a young guy that can share the load with Jackson. However with that in mind, we had Timmerman all last year, and proved he can still be playing at a high level. The younger guys stepped up and its great and all, but I still think when we have a guy with so much experience and with a position where we DO need all the help we can get, why let him go? I thought it was a really bad decision, and I don't blame him at all for being unhappy about the situation at all. He still wants to play football and to make a vet like him start over with a new team (if he can get a new team), I just think that's terrible. Not a good way to start in the off-season in my opinion.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    GC, I know you're upset, but it is time to move on. Maybe there is some thing the FO, coaching staff saw that made them come to this conclusion. I too would have liked to see Timmerman stay with the team. One thing to point out is that Timmerman came to us as a FA; it would be one thing if he were drafted by the Rams, but the time has come to let someone else take the reigns at RG.

    I'm very sure that Timmerman would want to start, if not here some where else.
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


    "HIT HARD, HIT FAST, AND HIT OFTEN"
    Adm. William "Bull" Halsey

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    tanus is offline Registered User
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    My point was that releasing him now saves us 1.3 million this year plus whatever his cap number would have been next year. I know it goes down based on the prorated signing bonus, but it still would have been a cap hit.

  8. #8
    keith m. klink Guest

    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    GC, at 41 years of age and being a rams fan since i was 7 , i totally agre with everything you said, i had wrote on another tread that why wouldn't we keep him as a vet. backup and re-do his contract, just like bruces, to keep him a ram. we do have a lot of young players , and it is inevitable that they will take over sooner than later. but a mix of vet's. , especially of timmermans character and drive is essential to a team in the terms of leadership and experiance. mccallum is staying at 1 million a year, they want to keep steussie, a 16 year veteran, why not timmerman at a reduced role and contract, i just cant see keeping a player like terrell, ( seems lazy and unwilling to be a team player) instead of a warrior mentality player like timmerman. i know we don't run the team, and have all the inside answers. but i would be puzzled and very disapointed if they let him go ( as i see they did already) and bring in someone new to challenge for a backup spot. last year we traded a good draft pick for dave ragone , and he didn't make it past preseason cut's.i hope that the rams turn around and resign timmerman to a reduced contract and let him finnish as a backup and mentor to our younger guy's.but we just watch, we don't get to coach, we just support and cheer our team on. GENERAL this is one of the best if not the best discussion i've read since being a part of this site. very well done , and i look forward to more with you. PS , JACK YOUNGBLOOD is the best de ever , cuz my momma said so. KK

  9. #9
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    1. A true Ram warrior is no longer wearing the horns. One of the, " I got your back", kind of guys will be playing elsewhere.
    2. One of his comments in the article about him coming in and competing for a job in 07 changed my opinion slightly about his release. If they kept in on to compete, he didn't make the roster, ( not much of a posisbility here but stay with me), he's be cut in late August. This way he does have the chance to get top market value from a team needing his services, while the money is flying around. After training camp is over, starting with a new team just before week 1 isn't much of an opportunity.
    3. He just isn't in Linehans plans for his 0-line of 07 and beyond. It's too early to know if overall it was good or bad, time will tell.
    4. We're seeing a new, hopefully improved, Rams team emerging with this new staff and now new players. I'm excited about this change, but sad to see some familair faces/personalities move on.

    Maineram -
    and out of the ashes rise ...The Breakfast Club !

  10. #10
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    I really don't have a problem with this. Timmerman had a great run as a Ram but let's face it, football is a young mans game. Incognito is the future and he's ready. Timmerman replaced someone when he was young and coming up in the league and someone someday will replace Incognito.

    Yes, it sucks our favorite players come and go but that's the nature of the game. That's why for me, it's the name on the front of the jersey that matters....not the back.

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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    I agree that Timmerman had two sub par years in 05 and 06 and I also agree that he was one of the key players in our SuperBowl series.

    Sad to see him go but as we always say, Ram life goes on.

    Good to see you pulling up the young kids GC, sometimes they need to be told


  12. #12
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    st.louis rams fans welcome to how georgia will come to screw us all until the day she dies... she did it in LA and has been doing it in stl. for a while now

  13. #13
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Great post GC, interesting read...........I thought the Rams would at least keep Adam as a back up.... but hey we will have to see what the FO have in store this FA period.........

    steve:l
    "The breakfast Club"

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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I really don't have a problem with this. Timmerman had a great run as a Ram but let's face it, football is a young mans game. Incognito is the future and he's ready. Timmerman replaced someone when he was young and coming up in the league and someone someday will replace Incognito.

    Yes, it sucks our favorite players come and go but that's the nature of the game. That's why for me, it's the name on the front of the jersey that matters....not the back.
    txramsfan,great point about the name on front of the jersey,as years go on,becoming attached to certain players becomes very painful when these things happen, along with GC and some of the other guys here i am a hugh timmerman fan,this guy was a model person on and off the field,i have read where guys are saying the Rams will go on and thats true,but they let a great warrior get away and thats sad,i wish Adam Timmerman and his family all the best and he will be missed.GC, thanks for taking the time to explain the importance of a player like timmerman for some of the younger fans who just don't get it.
    Last edited by jkramsfan; -02-27-2007 at 08:02 PM.

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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Yes Timmerman was great four years ago, good three years ago and bad the last tewo years. Timmerman was great for us and was a beast but now is a reliablity and can't stay healthy.


    We've had rookies step up and play better than him this past season so why keep him? Why not save $1.3mil? I think it was a smart move.


    I have a feeling some people (not naming) but some people are still stuck in the Greatest Show on Turf days and won't accept the fact that its a new era with a new Head Coach.

    Its time to get some new blood on the team.
    RamsFan16

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