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  1. #16
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    Yes Timmerman was great four years ago, good three years ago and bad the last tewo years. Timmerman was great for us and was a beast but now is a reliablity and can't stay healthy.


    We've had rookies step up and play better than him this past season so why keep him? Why not save $1.3mil? I think it was a smart move.


    I have a feeling some people (not naming) but some people are still stuck in the Greatest Show on Turf days and won't accept the fact that its a new era with a new Head Coach.

    Its time to get some new blood on the team.
    Yeah, some people don't want to give up the GSOT, can you blame them? I certainly can't. I think the whole thing is, we could've still USED him. That's what kills me about releasing him... I don't think he was a chore to keep around. He wasn't getting that much money to begin with and when you have a position(s) in which we not only need depth, but leadership and experience for younger players, I for one (if I ruled the world) would keep Timmerman for moral support if anything. He'd still be a great backup for us and a wonderful mentor.



    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

  2. #17
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    How could we have used him?

    The line next year will probrably look like this:

    LT Pace | Steussie
    LG Setterstrom | Goldberg
    C Romberg | McCollum
    RG Incognito | Goldberg
    RT Barron | Steussie
    RamsFan16

  3. #18
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    steussie is a free agent. Are you so sure he will be back? Goldberg is a restricted free agent, he could still get signed by someone else despite the tender. As i said in my post, i might well feel differently if steussie was under contract.

    This isnt about being stuck in the gsot. Its about now and i think there is a strong argument that he is as good as what we are going to get as a backup and at the margain, i would rather have the experience.

    This "its time to move on" stuff is just stupid. The key every year is to put the best team on the field that you can. I dont want to keep timmerman because he played on the GSOT teams. I want to keep him because i dont think that the cap savings means anything and i think he is better than goldberg AND we dont have steussie under contract.

    If you want to make a sweeping generalization, say this.

    There are people on this board who constantly and consistently address arguments that werent made. They create their own responses to questions by distorting the prior answer, in large part because some people dont take the time to actually read what someone said.

    Did ANYONE say timmerman should be a starter? IF someone was making that point, you could say that we are stuck in the gsot. I defy you to find me anyone on this board that thought goldberg played well when he played this year. How in the world are you going to tell me that you have any confidence in that guy? Again, if steussie was under contract, i would probably have a different view today and i was very clear that this is a great debate on which reasonable people can and will differ.

    However, the post stating that there is no place for him and listing who we have instead of him when one of those is an unrestricted free agent today is yet another example of a conclusion that doesnt address the point made by the poster.

    By the way, another point. The same person that is posting now and stating that we dont need timmerman because we dont have a spot for him while reserving a spot for the unsigned steussie is the same guy that told us all last off season that butler was a starting corner, while certain others of us were pointing out that butler was a big uncertainty given that he was coming off major surgery.

    Once again for the record, i really hope we resign steussie, now more than ever. I think if we dont get him back, we basically have zero depth in the interior line and at the tackle spots and will have to go out into free agency and overpay for a vet who will be no better than timmerman and wont have worked his butt off for the rams for the last seven years.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    Last edited by Nick; -02-28-2007 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Merging back to back posts


  4. #19
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    Yes Timmerman was great four years ago, good three years ago and bad the last tewo years. Timmerman was great for us and was a beast but now is a reliablity and can't stay healthy.
    Saying he can't stay healthy is an inaccurate description. This season is the first time the guy's missed a game since 2000. To say he can't stay healthy implies he's had trouble getting on the field. That's not the case at all. If anything, he's been incredibly durable to this point.

    Regardless, I would have liked to see the Rams work with him to restructure that contract. Keeping him at a number closer to the veteran's minimum would have been the ideal solution, because he's a veteran leader on a line that, based on Bulger's late-season comments, needs some leadership.

    Had they talked to him and realized there was no interest in restructuring, then sure, cut him. I hate to see him go because of his contributions to the team, but I don't think you can carry that kind of number into next year for a back-up player who isn't apart of your long-term plans. That's the economics of the league today, and I can't agree that the $1.3 million in savings won't mean anything. Who knows what it'll mean. But it doesn't seem as if the Rams even explored restructuring the deal, and that's disappointing.

  5. #20
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    I am willing to bet you right now nick that we wont spend that 1.3 million. I agree that you dont know that for sure but given our cap situation and the available talent out there, i think its a very good bet. A significant part of my point is that the extra 1.3 million in cap is cheap insurance in case someone gets hurt before the season, especially if we dont resign steussie. What happens if incognito reinjures his knee in mini camp? Covering that risk alone is worth the extra cap dollars.

    In addition, i think you are 100% on target on the restructuring issue. The generalization that there is no place on the team for timmerman makes no sense to me unless you tell me definitively that they tried to restructure and timmerman said no. I wonder how many people would have thought it was time to move on if he would have taken the vet minimum to come back.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  6. #21
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    We really need to add some depth to the line now,because the game is won in the trenches and it is in this area that injuries are more likely to occur.I hope Linehan knows what he is doing and I will reserve judgement on this until we see who replaces Timmerman.I also agree that they should have tried to negotiate a new deal with Adam,IMO nobody can argue that he is well past his prime he has been for the last few season's but he brings leadership qualities to the table to an inexperienced line.Timmerman was a great servant to the team,he was reliable and durable playing through the pain-barrier on a number of occasions..:l

  7. #22
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    A.T., hope your enjoy your new digs in Seattle. Say high to our old friends for us.
    I'm the guy that walks up after the argument's started.

  8. #23
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    You can't teach experience.
    Always a Rams Fan............

    Rex Allen Markel

  9. #24
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    How could we have used him?

    The line next year will probrably look like this:

    LT Pace | Steussie
    LG Setterstrom | Goldberg
    C Romberg | McCollum
    RG Incognito | Goldberg
    RT Barron | Steussie
    Son, I think you answered your own question here.

    Cutting AT had nothing to do with a roster spot. Living in the "Madden" world, it makes no sense to cut him, as I guarantee, he's still one of the top 4 guards on this roster. However, my best guess is that AT doesn't get along with the younger OL. Starting with Bulger's comments last year, it seems pretty obvious there is some level of, shall we say "uneasiness", between the vets on O and the young linemen. Maybe the business-like approach of Bulger and AT doesn't click with the philosophy of the younger linemen (questions surrounded RI's commitment to his rehab....questions have followed Barron's work ethic as well).

    I think AT just doesn't get along with RI and AB (Recall from the latest interview with AT there was "at least one person in that lockerroom he wouldn't miss"). They just don't speak the same language. Could they learn from a vet like AT? You bet, but if they are not willing to, then somebody has to go or there will be a problem in the lockerroom. So who is Linehan supposed to get rid of.......the two youngsters on the way up, or the vet with not more than a season or two left in him?

    Unfortunately, in this situation, the answer is AT has to go.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  10. #25
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Finally the voice of reason emerges. Hubison, after consultation with granny, of course has a valid point. If the kids dont get along with timmerman, for whatever reason, timmerman is the one that has to go. That at least is a viable explanation for not trying to renegotiate, rather than just talking about cap savings, the fact that he is no longer starter quality or the less than lucid fantasy comment about his durability.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  11. #26
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Linehan is the head coach and if he and Timm don't get along, Timm is going and I am ok with that. As much as I respect what Timm did for us, he is on the back side of his career and as someone else said, might get a chance to start for another team. At this point, because of what Linehan managed to do last year, I would much rather keep him than Timmerman, unlike Dallas and that idiot TO. And by no means is that a comparison of the two players and I hate to even use their two names in a sentence together, but the point is, the coach needs to be in charge, not the player.

  12. #27
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    I don't think we did the right thing by cutting Timmerman, I agree that we probably won't even end up using the 1.3 mil anyways and we could have kept him for good veteran insurance. However, our O-Line did look improved with the youth movement in the last 3 games, albeit we did face weaker teams. Also, it is questionable to think that Timmerman is a better option for the Rams than Goldberg or Setterstrom at this point in his career. From a emotional standpoint, it's hard to see him go, especially getting cut like this when he should have stayed, but in terms of building for the future, it's not the worst thing in the world to happen.

  13. #28
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I am willing to bet you right now nick that we wont spend that 1.3 million.
    Whether or not we spend it isn't really the point. The savings gives you more room to work with in a free agency period that's likely going to feature higher costs as teams with unusually large amounts of cap room try to outbid one another for the few top players that are available. Furthermore, if the Rams carry that room into the summer, it gives them the space to add players who were released as June 1st cuts by their club, and going into the season, it gives them the space to add mid-season free agents as injury replacements. To say this kind of cap room has absolutely no meaning, well I'd simply have to strongly disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I wonder how many people would have thought it was time to move on if he would have taken the vet minimum to come back.
    I think we all know the answer is none.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    However, my best guess is that AT doesn't get along with the younger OL. Starting with Bulger's comments last year, it seems pretty obvious there is some level of, shall we say "uneasiness", between the vets on O and the young linemen. Maybe the business-like approach of Bulger and AT doesn't click with the philosophy of the younger linemen (questions surrounded RI's commitment to his rehab....questions have followed Barron's work ethic as well).

    I think AT just doesn't get along with RI and AB (Recall from the latest interview with AT there was "at least one person in that lockerroom he wouldn't miss"). They just don't speak the same language. Could they learn from a vet like AT? You bet, but if they are not willing to, then somebody has to go or there will be a problem in the lockerroom. So who is Linehan supposed to get rid of.......the two youngsters on the way up, or the vet with not more than a season or two left in him?

    Unfortunately, in this situation, the answer is AT has to go.
    This is most likely the primary reason behind the release, and my biggest concern about it is the kind of message it sends to the rest of the team to release someone like Timmerman but keep the guys that apparently are viewed by more than one person as not having the great attitude. Hopefully after 2007, either one of two things will happen - (1) guys like Richie and Alex experience a change for the better and improve their attitude, or (2) the Rams decide to go with the guys who actually want to win and cut bait with the ones who don't.

  14. #29
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    I'm glad I wasn't here to see GC when Bruce was cut.

  15. #30
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    Re: Timmerman, Rams Fan 16 and my problem with the release

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Son, I think you answered your own question here.

    Cutting AT had nothing to do with a roster spot. Living in the "Madden" world, it makes no sense to cut him, as I guarantee, he's still one of the top 4 guards on this roster. However, my best guess is that AT doesn't get along with the younger OL. Starting with Bulger's comments last year, it seems pretty obvious there is some level of, shall we say "uneasiness", between the vets on O and the young linemen. Maybe the business-like approach of Bulger and AT doesn't click with the philosophy of the younger linemen (questions surrounded RI's commitment to his rehab....questions have followed Barron's work ethic as well).

    I think AT just doesn't get along with RI and AB (Recall from the latest interview with AT there was "at least one person in that lockerroom he wouldn't miss"). They just don't speak the same language. Could they learn from a vet like AT? You bet, but if they are not willing to, then somebody has to go or there will be a problem in the lockerroom. So who is Linehan supposed to get rid of.......the two youngsters on the way up, or the vet with not more than a season or two left in him?

    Unfortunately, in this situation, the answer is AT has to go.
    If this IS the answer to the question, then folks we are in for not only a sucky year next year, but all those thereafter. Who, in their right mind sacrifices the business-like old school wisdom for the street what about me garbage exhibited by so many flame outs. If this IS the answer, then the NFL will turn into the NBA and MLB, and I will no longer be a fan.

    I don't understand the moves the front office has been making since they forced Vermeil to retire after the Super Bowl. I'm not impressed what has happened so far this year and I don't see any hope that things are going to get better. Broken record time....the old topless Vegas Chorus girl has to go. Sell this team PLEASE and get a new organization in here that will restore it to its previous glory. The success Georgia enjoyed with the miracle of Warner and company was pure luck. The stars just happened to align just right. What did they do with a successful product. Dribbled it away. Completely mismanaged a team that could have had years of success like the Patriots.
    I'm sad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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