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Thread: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    AV, you must be spags 2nd cousin! Lmao, when mutiple sources say the same thing its some kind of truth in it ESPECIALLY, when its coming from 2 different places and different ppl. Everything might not be true but like i said WE as fans seen it 1st hand he didnt adjust to anything. Now that cant be disputed! And anytime he got asked a serious question he answered with "i dont know". Or "ill get back to u" we heard/seen that too, I cant ever recall any other leader saying that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastcat
    AV, you must be spags 2nd cousin! Lmao, when mutiple sources say the same thing its some kind of truth in it ESPECIALLY, when its coming from 2 different places and different ppl. Everything might not be true but like i said WE as fans seen it 1st hand he didnt adjust to anything. Now that cant be disputed! And anytime he got asked a serious question he answered with "i dont know". Or "ill get back to u" we heard/seen that too, I cant ever recall any other leader saying that.
    I don't see "multiple sources." I see one anonymous quote, and a "me too" from a FB who was cut.

    Spags failed as a head coach. I said that before, but I guess you missed that part.

    As for his personality and demeanor... well it worked pretty well when he was a DC for the Giants, so maybe that's not the issue.

    Maybe he's just not cut out to be a HC.

    Again... at this point, who cares?

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Bing69 View Post
    Dude, are you quoting Batman? lol. I just watched it.

    wow i'm impressed someone got that LMAO! I was just watching that part when I wrote that
    ....
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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I don't see "multiple sources." I see one anonymous quote, and a "me too" from a FB who was cut.

    Spags failed as a head coach. I said that before, but I guess you missed that part.

    As for his personality and demeanor... well it worked pretty well when he was a DC for the Giants, so maybe that's not the issue.

    Maybe he's just not cut out to be a HC.

    Again... at this point, who cares?
    Ok, i got you... Goto 101espn.com and get the podcast from The Fast Lane for Jan 3rd. They talk about it in the middle (i think) of the 4 o clock segment. But i listen to sports radio all year and ive been hearing the same things from different ppl, starting with spag's first season here with the rams

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Has Jim Thomas called dibs among Rams reporters so that he is the only one that can write articles that call Spag a control freak?

    It's funny how Spags is a control freak, but Fisher benches Jenkins and Givens in an important game because they broke his rules, and Blake Williams is out because his personality clashed with people, but no one says Fisher is a control freak!
    I guess it's just how you present the info!!

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Its weird that all of the exact opposite things were being said about Spags when he was on the Giants. Its also strange that the Giants defense hasn't gotten close to the level it consistantly was when Spags was there. Spags wasn't a very good head coach in St. Louis but he brought out a solid season for the Rams' defense in 2010(better than the 2012 Rams' defense) when the team finally got some talent. Everything collapsed in 2011 when one of the worst string of injuries I've ever seen happened to the team but his defensive coaching ability didn't suddenly disappear.

    I find this pretty pathetic and cowardly by this anonymous Saints player. Spags obviously has some responsibility for the terrible Saints D this year but maybe the fact that the defense was completely devoid of players who could tackle, cover or rush the passer or the cluster**** bountygate scandal surrounding the team all season had something to do with it.

    None of us know what Spags is actually like to his players but the fact that I hear nothing but praise from him from my friends who are Giants fans and all of the great reports about him from early 2009 from sources with names that completely contradict these recent statements makes me very skeptical about this article.
    fearsome foursome and Rammed like this.

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by jmk321 View Post
    Its weird that all of the exact opposite things were being said about Spags when he was on the Giants. Its also strange that the Giants defense hasn't gotten close to the level it consistantly was when Spags was there. Spags wasn't a very good head coach in St. Louis but he brought out a solid season for the Rams' defense in 2010(better than the 2012 Rams' defense) when the team finally got some talent. Everything collapsed in 2011 when one of the worst string of injuries I've ever seen happened to the team but his defensive coaching ability didn't suddenly disappear.

    I find this pretty pathetic and cowardly by this anonymous Saints player. Spags obviously has some responsibility for the terrible Saints D this year but maybe the fact that the defense was completely devoid of players who could tackle, cover or rush the passer or the cluster**** bountygate scandal surrounding the team all season had something to do with it.

    None of us know what Spags is actually like to his players but the fact that I hear nothing but praise from him from my friends who are Giants fans and all of the great reports about him from early 2009 from sources with names that completely contradict these recent statements makes me very skeptical about this article.
    Of course, Giants fans will praise him- he was a part of upsetting the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Truth be told, his defense stunk for the first part of the season, improved somewhat, then got hot in the playoffs. While he's to be given some credit for that, let's not make him out to be Dick LeBeau.

    Read any one of the hundreds of articles in which some of Spags actions are chronicled during his tenure here- taking down Rams photos at Rams Park (why- was it a threat to him?), firing a long time equipment manager (petty micromanagement), surrounding himself with a less than stellar array of football coaches (insecurity)- to name a few of the more publicized instances. To me, the recent article isn't the figment of someone's imagination- it's a real perception. And the Saints weren't destroyed by defensive injuries this season, so don't tell me that Spags didn't help screw up a team that was a playoff caliber team last year.
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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    At least it's pretty clear who got the better end of the Jo Lonn Dunbar/Chris Chamberlain "swap deal"

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Has Jim Thomas called dibs among Rams reporters so that he is the only one that can write articles that call Spag a control freak?

    It's funny how Spags is a control freak, but Fisher benches Jenkins and Givens in an important game because they broke his rules, and Blake Williams is out because his personality clashed with people, but no one says Fisher is a control freak!
    I guess it's just how you present the info!!

    I don't agree with the comparison, Tomahawk. Punishing guys for breaking a team rule is both expected and appropriate. And Blake Williams' personality must have been both abrasive and arrogant for him to get canned, because the linebackers actually did OK this year. Neither singular act can be compared to the perception by some that Spags is both controlling and unreceptive to suggestion.

    As for the Dunbar/Chamberlain swap, you're 100% right!!
    Last edited by NJ Ramsfan1; -01-04-2013 at 10:54 AM.

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Spags wasn't a very good head coach in St. Louis but he brought out a solid season for the Rams' defense in 2010(better than the 2012 Rams' defense) when the team finally got some talent.
    Wait...what?

    The 2010 defense was ranked 19th. The 2012 defense was ranked 14th.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Since you asked... no, that's not how I form opinions.

    Maybe its what I do for a living, but I don't form opinions on the basis of hearsay and unverified citations to anonymous sources. In my vernacular, that type of evidence is inadmissible.

    Spags was an ineffective head coach. At this point, I don't really care why.
    Guess we'll all have to start deposing bloggers and columnists prior to froming an opinion. You're kind of beating this too death AV, (understandable, given your profession), but sometimes, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck".
    And he DID fire a 30 year equipment manager, (as was his right, notwithstanding), - if that is not a sign of micromanagement, nothing is.
    And that IS a fact, not opinion.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasRam View Post
    Guess we'll all have to start deposing bloggers and columnists prior to froming an opinion. You're kind of beating this too death AV, (understandable, given your profession), but sometimes, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck".
    I have an idea. Why don't you decide what you want to believe, and I'll do the same.

    In my experience, sportswriters say a lot of things with very few facts or personal observations to back their stories up. I believe that which I can see for myself. So, yes... if I see a duck, I'll call it a duck, but if a sportswriter tells me that some unnamed source saw a duck, I'll reserve judgment.

    And he DID fire a 30 year equipment manager, (as was his right, notwithstanding), - if that is not a sign of micromanagement, nothing is.
    And that IS a fact, not opinion.
    No, that's an interpretation of a fact. Yes, a 30 year equipment manager was fired. What does that mean about Spags? Well, that's open to interpretation.

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    I don't agree with the comparison, Tomahawk. Punishing guys for breaking a team rule is both expected and appropriate. And Blake Williams' personality must have been both abrasive and arrogant for him to get canned, because the linebackers actually did OK this year. Neither singular act can be compared to the perception by some that Spags is both controlling and unreceptive to suggestion.

    As for the Dunbar/Chamberlain swap, you're 100% right!!
    I don't agree with the comparison either. I was merely pointing out that you can spin known facts anyway you like and come to a different conclusion to match your agenda

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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Of course, Giants fans will praise him- he was a part of upsetting the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Truth be told, his defense stunk for the first part of the season, improved somewhat, then got hot in the playoffs. While he's to be given some credit for that, let's not make him out to be Dick LeBeau.

    Read any one of the hundreds of articles in which some of Spags actions are chronicled during his tenure here- taking down Rams photos at Rams Park (why- was it a threat to him?), firing a long time equipment manager (petty micromanagement), surrounding himself with a less than stellar array of football coaches (insecurity)- to name a few of the more publicized instances. To me, the recent article isn't the figment of someone's imagination- it's a real perception. And the Saints weren't destroyed by defensive injuries this season, so don't tell me that Spags didn't help screw up a team that was a playoff caliber team last year.
    I watched every Giants game from that season because I live in New York. It took Spags 2 weeks to impliment his system and from week 3 on during the 2007 season he turned a 24th ranked defense from the previous year into a top 10 unit. You also neglect to mention the 2008 season where the Giants had the 5th ranked defense in the league. The season after Spags left the Giants defense suddenly became 30th ranked even though they had mostly the same players. Spags did a great job in New York whether you want to admit it or not.

    And I recall everyone on this forum being very excited when reading these examples where you are calling Spags a control freak. Spags took down the photos of individual players because he wanted to instill a team first mentality and did not want any players to be bigger than the team. I'm sure other people here can attest to clanram being happy about this team and character first mentality that Spags was bringing in. Its really convenient how you can spin these reports to make them a negative to support your viewpoint. I do not like a lot of the decisions he made in hiring his coaching staff but I would say that was mostly due to his reliance on hiring mediocre coaches that he happened to have worked with in the past and not due to some weird insecurity theory. He also hired a previous head coach who was an "offensive mastermind" as his offensive coordinator in Josh McDaniels so clearly he wasn't afraid to hire someone who he felt was a threat to him as a coach.

    Spags does have some fault for the Saints defense this year and if I were in charge of the Saints I would probably fire him after this pathetic season but you can't just ignore how doomed this Saints' season was from the beginning with the bountygate scandal. Losing one of the best coaches in football and several defensive players to free agency or suspension has a real effect on the team and I don't think the poor performance of the 2012 Saints defense and all the factors surrounding it negates all of Spags past successes as a coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Wait...what?

    The 2010 defense was ranked 19th. The 2012 defense was ranked 14th.
    2010 defense ranked 12th in points per game, the thing that actually matters.

    And just to be clear I'm happy Spags was fired and that Jeff Fischer is currently the head coach of the Rams. Spags clearly has his faults as a coach but I think these reports are unfair.
    Last edited by jmk321; -01-04-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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    Re: Tipsheet: Spags didn't learn from Rams failure

    Quote Originally Posted by jmk321 View Post
    I watched every Giants game from that season because I live in New York. It took Spags 2 weeks to impliment his system and from week 3 on during the 2007 season he turned a 24th ranked defense from the previous year into a top 10 unit. You also neglect to mention the 2008 season where the Giants had the 5th ranked defense in the league. The season after Spags left the Giants defense suddenly became 30th ranked even though they had mostly the same players. Spags did a great job in New York whether you want to admit it or not.

    And I recall everyone on this forum being very excited when reading these examples where you are calling Spags a control freak. Spags took down the photos of individual players because he wanted to instill a team first mentality and did not want any players to be bigger than the team. I'm sure other people here can attest to clanram being happy about this team and character first mentality that Spags was bringing in. Its really convenient how you can spin these reports to make them a negative to support your viewpoint. I do not like a lot of the decisions he made in hiring his coaching staff but I would say that was mostly due to his reliance on hiring mediocre coaches that he happened to have worked with in the past and not due to some weird insecurity theory. He also hired a previous head coach who was an "offensive mastermind" as his offensive coordinator in Josh McDaniels so clearly he wasn't afraid to hire someone who he felt was a threat to him as a coach.

    Spags does have some fault for the Saints defense this year and if I were in charge of the Saints I would probably fire him after this pathetic season but you can't just ignore how doomed this Saints' season was from the beginning with the bountygate scandal. Losing one of the best coaches in football and several defensive players to free agency or suspension has a real effect on the team and I don't think the poor performance of the 2012 Saints defense and all the factors surrounding it negates all of Spags past successes as a coach.



    2010 defense ranked 12th in points per game, the thing that actually matters.

    And just to be clear I'm happy Spags was fired and that Jeff Fischer is currently the head coach of the Rams. Spags clearly has his faults as a coach but I think these reports are unfair.
    The thing is, I was excited when Spags was hired as head coach. He was the "hot" candidate at the time. My issue with Spags is that we got a different guy than we bargained for. He was not the tough-minded, supremely confident, decisive guy that I was led to believe he was according to local media here (I, too live in the Giants viewing area and see them each week).

    Wanting to instill a 'team first' mentality and putting your own stamp on things is all well and good, but yanking down pictures of past success was the wrong way to do it. It immediately gave the impression he was disrespecting Rams history. Barring ex-employees Jim Hanifan and D'Marco Farr from the weight room (as I remember reading in one account) in his early dealings with the club alienated those associated with their success in the early 2000's. I recall reading several stories throughout his tenure describing Rams Park as a tense place that wasn't very inviting, due in part to Spags micromanagement of minutiae unimportant to success on the football field.

    I really didn't originally intend to belabor the issue of the article that came out regarding Spags and will end my input with this post. Spags deserves some credit for his past successes. But I truly believe he has some major flaws that were exposed once he was entrusted with running the show and then again this year with the Saints. Tom Coughlin (Great Coach) and guys like Michael Strahan camouflaged his deficiencies in NY. Certainly, people can choose to disagree with the general comments made about Spags in the recent article , but I tend to believe much of it. When a player(s) basically says "input wasn't encouraged" and "people were treated poorly", those are some pretty serious claims.
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