Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

[AvengerRam]

134 responses in less than 24 hours on this thread. Now, that's impressive.

[RamTime]

With everything that has been said so far, there is still one thing that has not been addressed. That is, were not done yet. Hopefully the Rams are not hashing this out amongst themselves. Hopefully they are figuring out how to beat the Eagles. We have bulger coming back and we have Jackson coming off two weeks rest. We still have all those turnovers coming that are suppose to equal out over the course of a season. I think we have to put this to rest and get behind Martz until we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs or until we lose a playoff game or until after we win the superbowl. Stranger things have happened.

[Nick]

So, 10 attempts is enough for you to determine that the running game CAN"T work against the Cardinals? Gimmee a number that's realistic to you. I understand your position that the Rams didn't have the personnel or opportunity to run the ball based on circumstances so I'm just curious what your cut-off point is.

It's hard to defend Martz's position because it's not the one I would have taken going into the game.

But by the time Faulk saw his third rushing attempt, the Rams were down 17-0. At that point in the game, I don't feel you have a lot of opportunities to continue to try to run the ball, because you need to try and catch up and get back into the game.

It's not just about attempts. It's about game situations, what's going on on the field with your line, what the defense is doing.

There were several times this year where Adrian Peterson started out the game with 3-5 carries for only 10 yards or so. By the end of the game, he had over 200.

You say ten rushing attempts is laughable, I say drawing a conclusion from college football to use in a discussion about pro football is equally laughable.

However, I agree with the second part of your post where you outlined the tactic you felt was more appropriate. I think we should have spent the week strengthening our rushing attack and concentrated on it from the beginning, and for that I think Martz does deserve criticism. But I can't blame him for trying to pass the ball downfield when we're down by 17 with the clock ticking in the second half.

[RamTime]

Bill Walsh may be the best example, as he built a team with the West Coast offense blueprint to perfection.

Not true. Walsh built his west coast offense due to serendipity. Walsh admits in his book that he would not have thought to throw so many short passes if not for the injury to his quarterback Greg Cook. Walsh came from Cincinnati where they also made the worst to first transition (remember the superbowl?) So before you help the media blow more smoke up an over-rated coach’s ass who is in large part the reason football became boring for 2 decades behind a gutless approach that exploited the rules changes in a division where competition was usually non existent check the hidden logic behind it. I cannot educate the world about the over-rated gutless, cheating 49er franchise but I can shine some light on the issue at least to Rams fans.

[moklerman]

But by the time Faulk saw his third rushing attempt, the Rams were down 17-0. At that point in the game, I don't feel you have a lot of opportunities to continue to try to run the ball, because you need to try and catch up and get back into the game.

Again, we come full circle to the previous argument. The Rams were down by 17 with most of 3 quarters remaining in the game. If you're arguing that any semblence of a normal gameplan had to be thrown out the window because the Rams wouldn't be able to generate 17 points in 3 quarters then we just don't view football the same way.

By abandoning the run the Rams just fed into what got them down by 17 in the first place. Last time we talked about this I asked what harm could it do to try and stick to the gameplan and let things balance out? Obviously, hitting the panic button and going all pass-happy has proven to be so effective that it was the only alternative, right? Down by 17 in the 4th quarter, okay, it's time to start flinging it and hope for the best. But early in the game against a weak defense, with a 2nd and 3rd string qb you just can't justify abandoning the run. Look at the results for crimeny's sake!

Patience is a virtue that Martz needs to learn. Especially if the defense is going to give up points all the time. The Rams will not win in a shootout. Period. End of story. The defense will always give up points while the offense will generally turn it over.

[rampete]

Let's put this another way.


If Mike Martz was a chef, his specialty would be a souffle. Now, if a souffle is made correctly, it can be absolutely delicious. Why, it could be the best thing you ever ate. But, everything has to be right. Omit one ingredient, under or overcook it, or fail to serve it at the exact right temperature, and it can get ruined.

Other coaches would never try to make a souffle. Instead, they like to make a good stew. Now, a good stew may not be fancy, and it may not be the most impressive dish ever, but its filling and down right tasty. Plus, you don't have to have everything perfect. No carrots? Use parsnips. No corn? Use peas. No beef stock? Use chicken stock. In the end, it can still be a great meal.

We need a stew chef.

easier said than done...and i thinks you underestimate yourself when you think you can stomach a "stew" diet after years of sometimes exquisite servings of northern french souffles...

[Curly Horns]

As the Rams fall into a pit of remorse and mediocrity.

You think so? You give Martz more credit than he begins to deserve. He is not the savior that keeps the Rams from being mediocre and since the payroll checks will probably still be good I don't forsee any remorse.

Tell me what genius will you replace him with .... mmmmm

Don't need a genius. I'd settle for a hard nosed football coach. Look, if it makes you feel better, I hope he returns next season. However, my opinion remains the same. Quite frankly I have seen it all in my 40+ year tenure as a Rams fan. At this point, one more season of madness really won't make that much difference to me.

[atcchris]

You say ten rushing attempts is laughable, I say drawing a conclusion from college football to use in a discussion about pro football is equally laughable.

Maybe so, but I don't consider the pro game to be all that more inferior to the college game. You shouldn't be so harsh on it. It has good qualities.

Fact of the matter is this, regarding the 3 quarters left, down 17 points.. same thing with Adrian Peterson this year... OSU had some breaks go their way and scored a couple of quick special teams TDs early.. but it was the guts and patience to use the running game that finally broke their back in the end. Granted, at OU there is a wonderful symbiosis between the running game and passing game that we could only dream of here... but.. it's what the goal should be in the end, isn't it? It's really the crux of GSOT, isn't it? All the WEAPONS.. any one of which could kill you at any time?

[moklerman]

Martz could learn a lot from quite a few college coaches. Hell, he could probably learn a thing or two from some high school coaches. Fundamentals and principle's don't change based on the level of play, only the payroll and athletes do.

[LaRamsFanLongTime]

On the contrary, nearly every Head Coach I have ever read about categorically state that the veteran QB is the QB when they come back from injury; that the upstart has to take the position from them.

If you are talking about the initial benching I agree Warner was given a raw deal. After last year though I think it was time to move on for the Rams. I think Bulger earned his role with solid play last year. he made some mistakes but I really think they were mistakes I had seen Warner have too. They both like to force balls when rushed. I think bulger has calmed down though and has looked great this year. The main difference to me is the ability to hold on to the ball when tackled. I know Warner only gave up 4 but he is very lucky since he fumble what was it 14 or 12. As far as the Touchdowns, well Like I said Warner had the luxury of a good offensive line and alot more toys. I have always agreed Warner got a raw deal but I do think the Rams turned out better for it, its a hard knocks life you know.

The running game? No one on this board pro Martz or anti can say he did what was right yesterday and he knows it. The none run game was stupid any way you look at it. He put this game on Chandler again. Chandler sucked but he is not the only scapegoat. It is obvious that these QB's have not been prepared to take over the team. He had the nerve when questioned about the running game to state that one of the early plays was supposed to be a run. So it is all ok he was gonna run 11 times???? Sheesh when I heard his remarks I got even more pissed. I think we fans deserve a better explanation come out and say "hey everything went wrong including my game plan" be humble at least.

[RamDez]

You think so? You give Martz more credit than he begins to deserve. He is not the savior that keeps the Rams from being mediocre and since the payroll checks will probably still be good I don't forsee any remorse.

no, you took that out of context and when one does that then its easy to win an argument. What I was alluling to was that I dont see anyone stiiting there that can replace him.

Don't need a genius. I'd settle for a hard nosed football coach.

And you would force the Rams into further years of mediocrity as that hard nosed coach tried to rebuild a team not meant for hard nosed football.

I dont mind arguments but lets make them valid ones shall we.

[RamDez]

Then tell me this.

What WILL it take for you to get off the Martz bandwagon?

Maybe two losing seasons in a row is what it takes for you. For me.. having hopscotch years of losing seasons peppered with seasons where we SHOULD have had a losing record, if not save for the overacheiving defensive takeaway specialists and kicker.. that's more than enough. Of course it was enough when the idiot kicked Warner to the curb starting in 2003. The rest is simply further evidence that MARTZ MUST GO!!!

Thats just plain silly.

So what your saying is that you would prefer 5 solid years instead of a coach who rebuilds a team?

[RamDez]

One way or another, one of us will be shown to be foolish in their assessment. Will it be the one who denigrates the ONLY QB to ever bring home a Lombardi Trophy for our Team? Or will it be the one who denigrates the ONLY COACH who ever wasted such an array of talent as we had assembled.

I guess we'll see.

(BTW.. your boy Bulger... how long can he take the pounding dished out due to Martz' lack of vision in his player movements? Will his injuries compound and lead to poor performance... and another QB career kicked to the curb? Stay tuned.)

What a load of crock. I can not believe that posters allowed you to get away with this drivel without a comeback.

the ONLY COACH?????? yea right, I won t even bother to list the others. The ONLY COACH!!

And this statement just shows why you are NOT a Ram FAN "BTW.. your boy Bulger... "

that simply show that you are sitting on the wings, reveling in how the Rams are performing and are longing for that washed up Kurt to come riding into town in his big white steade to save the day. Hear this. It aint happening so it might be time for you to ride of and follow him at whatever team he ends up..... cause he sure aint playing football in the NFL just now ...... is he

Oh, so maybe the Giants will now come under your one tracked argument as well now. Yea, I see it now ............. the RAMS AND THE GIANTS were wrong to get rid of Warner .......... then you could expant it to the Rams and the Giants and the ......... fill in the blank.

Ok ran out of steam ..... off to do some Christmas shopping LOL

[AvengerRam]

I think a new coach could turn around this team rather quickly by doing the following:


1. Prioritizing things that Martz seems to take for granted (i.e. O line, special teams);

2. Recognzie that the combination of Steven Jackson and the Rams' receivers would be best used in a more balanced offense;

3. Manage games better than Martz;

4. Give the team - which stood around in the locker room after the Arizona game and expressed a "don't know what happened" attitude - a better sense of direction and purpose.

This team is not without talent. With the right approach, it can succeed. Is there a guarantee that a new coach would do that? Of course not. Am I certain that Martz can't do it? Again, of course not. I can only go by what I see in the team and in other teams that have head coaches with different philosophies. I, like each of us, am making an educated guess, at best.

Given those caveats, I stand by my desire to see a new head coach in St. Louis.

[HUbison]

With everything that has been said so far, there is still one thing that has not been addressed. That is, were not done yet. Hopefully the Rams are not hashing this out amongst themselves. Hopefully they are figuring out how to beat the Eagles. We have bulger coming back and we have Jackson coming off two weeks rest. We still have all those turnovers coming that are suppose to equal out over the course of a season. I think we have to put this to rest and get behind Martz until we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs or until we lose a playoff game or until after we win the superbowl. Stranger things have happened.

Amen, RT! This is my favorite of all your posts.