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  1. #76
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Dez, it's me and you on the Martz Island it appears.

    People, don't knee jerk this. Injuries killed us this year. Lack of big plays defensively hurt also. I mean, going into yesterdays game we were -20 in the turnover ratio. How often this year have our defenders dropped INT's that hit them in the chest? Too often to count. Having to rely on Coady most of the year didn't help either. Yesterday, our tackling wasn't the greatest.

    The Rams are just a few pieces of the puzzle away from turning this thing around. So we had a down year. It happens. Shoot, Carolina went from 2-14, to the Super Bowl, then 6-8. Injuries are so key in the salary cap era, and to lose two starting O lineman prior to even the first preseason game was an indication of how this year was going to go.
    Phil, they are just not seeing it ............ they are blind, we need to lead them.



  2. #77
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Let me address the injury thing.


    No team had more key injuries than Carolina. And while, at face value, they have the same record as the Rams, there are some big differences that illustrate my original points about margin of error and flexibility.

    Carolina has demonstrated that it can plug in RBs way down on the depth chart and still have success. Is this because they have incredible depth at RB? Maybe to some extent, but the real reason is that the O line (which, by the way, lost two starters from the Super Bowl team) is the focus. In other words, unlike the Martz system, the offense does not need all of its parts to be working (remember, Steve Smith, their best WR, has also been out all year).

    Because Carolina has been able to adjust to its misfortune, it has been able to turn around from a horrible start and play its best football (even with their loss at Atlanta) late in the season. The Rams have been moving in the opposite direction.

  3. #78
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Injuries are a part of the game. Bad luck is a part of the game. Personnel changes are a part of the game. Good coaches make the necessary adjustments and tweaks to compensate for adversity. Mike Martz has not been able to make things work in the face of adversity and nothing he has shown has given any indication that he can. A change is needed.

  4. #79
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Preseason? Not me. And perhaps your "4 years" threw me.

    These are Martz' REAL numbers:

    2000 11-6 Playoffs 0-1
    2001 16-3 Playoffs 2-1
    2002 7-9 No playoffs
    2003 12-5 Playoffs 0-1
    2004 6-8

    Record:

    52-31 = .626 pct (23-22, for .511 since 2002 (post KW for all intents and purposes) with a 0-2 playoff record)

    He's not that good. He wasted a ton of talent. Better coaches than HIM have been fired....

    And..

    It's only proper KARMA that he get kicked to the curb despite what his supporters see as evidence of greatness.

    However. Martz has never led his team to a victory in the big dance. Warner did.

  5. #80
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Would you give the Warner thing a rest. Warner's not a Head Coach, he's a QB (I would think you would know that, but apparently, you don't).

  6. #81
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    sigh ..................... yea and by your argument then, if Warner led the Rams to the Superbowl ..................... Dick sure threw some good looking spirals.

    Pick an argument and stick to it son. Man your like a chilli eater on a stormy see .......... all over the place.


  7. #82
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Bingo Mike. You summed it up perfectly. I have grown tired of Martz's inability to adapt. His arrogance has done him and this team in. I don't have a solution, just my disgust and contempt for Martz's inablity to adapt to what every team deals with; injuries and the changing of game plans that will work with the personnel that you have and to exploit an opponent's weaknesses.

    :disappoin
    Last edited by SFCRamFan; -12-20-2004 at 12:36 PM.
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    SJax, a developing quarterbacks best friend...

  8. #83
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Ramdez

    How many Ram coaches went to the Superbowl? Answer 3. How many won?Answer 1.
    None of whom was Martz. That's bad odds if you're Martz or a supporter.

    txramsfan

    The Rams are just a few pieces of the puzzle away from turning this thing around. So we had a down year. It happens. Shoot, Carolina went from 2-14, to the Super Bowl, then 6-8. Injuries are so key in the salary cap era, and to lose two starting O lineman prior to even the first preseason game was an indication of how this year was going to go.
    And the above is exactly what I mean. Martz and co. (including his supporters) don't think there's really anything wrong. Just misfortune and injury. We're just a hair away from being back to the former glory. Thinking like that, with the statistical aberration which was 2003 (good lord.. how did we go 12-4 last year? 22TD-22INT?!?! We had takeaways is how.. and we had the most-used FG kicker in the game (meaning we didn't finish drives)) teasing us into thinking we were still at the top... that's what's going to ensure our spot in the lower rungs of the NFL.

    How many years can we go 7-9, 6-10.. even 12-4 and one-and-out.. and still keep believing we're "almost there"?

    Time for someone new. TO THE CURB, MARTZ!! Heck, if you weren't a hypocrite, you'd do it to yourself!

  9. #84
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Hypocrite I'm not. Also, I'm not someone who reacts to every little detail like it's the Titanic sinking.

    Everyone can have their opinion. That's what is fun. However, I'm glad Martz is staying for at least one more year. However, if they don't shore up the O line in some fashion this offseason then the Rams need to fire more people than just Mike Martz.

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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by atcchris
    Ramdez
    None of whom was Martz. That's bad odds if you're Martz or a supporter.
    and there lies the the truth in this discussion.

    I, unlike you, am a RAM fan.

    Not a Martz fan

    I, unlike you, support the Rams not individuals.

    You never let go of Warner and you continually prove it here.

    I, on the other hand, would quite gladly let go of Mike Martz when he eventually leaves the Rams.

    Its sad really that you can not get over that and you have my sympathy.


  11. #86
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Its not always about winning it all. Chuck Knox and George Allen were two of the Rams' greatest coaches, and neither won the big game. Marv Levy is a Hall of Famer, as is Bud Grant, and neither won the big game.


    Even with a great coach, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes the ball bounces the wrong way, sometimes there's just a better team out there.

    So I won't condemn Martz simply for failing to win it all.

    My condemnation is for other reasons.

  12. #87
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Avengerram

    Would you give the Warner thing a rest. Warner's not a Head Coach, he's a QB (I would think you would know that, but apparently, you don't).
    It's called an analogy. Perfectly led up to by CLAIMS that Martz should be retained due to his (formerly) great statistics. Fair game, whether any of you like it or not. TO THE CURB WITH MARTZ!

    sigh ..................... yea and by your argument then, if Warner led the Rams to the Superbowl ..................... Dick sure threw some good looking spirals.
    No doubt.. Vermeil deserves a lot of the credit. Someone has to actually lead on the field, though. Vermeil didn't mind that. Martz did. In fact, Martz minded Vermeil and Warner getting credit for what he thought was HIS super bowl victory in 1999. I think that's why Vermeil retired abruptly, and I think that's what was behind Martz' kicking Warner to the curb. Martz thought that he could prove to the world that it was HIS SYSTEM that made the Rams great, and that he could plug any QB in there and have it work great.

    Sorry Martz. Didn't work.

    Pick an argument and stick to it son. Man your like a chilli eater on a stormy see .......... all over the place.
    Can I help it that you keep giving me point after point to make?

    Heck.. according to you, Martz can make this pig fly. Maybe you'll be given a chance to be proven how wrong you are. So far, the critics of Martz have been proven right. Oh.. I forgot. The injuries. Yeah. That's the real reason the team's failing.

  13. #88
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    No doubt.. Vermeil deserves a lot of the credit. Someone has to actually lead on the field, though. Vermeil didn't mind that. Martz did. In fact, Martz minded Vermeil and Warner getting credit for what he thought was HIS super bowl victory in 1999. I think that's why Vermeil retired abruptly, and I think that's what was behind Martz' kicking Warner to the curb. Martz thought that he could prove to the world that it was HIS SYSTEM that made the Rams great, and that he could plug any QB in there and have it work great.
    Ah, and where did you get this from?

    Or is this another one of those urban myths?

    lets go with the facts not the hey, my brothers uncles second sister stuff shall we.


  14. #89
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by atcchris
    It's called an analogy.
    Perhaps, just not a good one.

    The reasons for keeping or replacing a QB and a coach could not be more different.

    In deciding to let Warner go, the team had to consider issues like injuries, salary cap ramifications, and Bulger and Warner's relative ages. None of these things come into play in a coaching decision.

    So, while you attempt to make an analogy, a metaphor is more appropriate.

    Apples and oranges.

    You remind me of PETA, atc. While that organization and I are in agreement on certain issues, their radical justifications just make me shake my head.

  15. #90
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    txramsfan

    Hypocrite I'm not. Also, I'm not someone who reacts to every little detail like it's the Titanic sinking.
    Not claiming YOU are. Claiming MARTZ is. If he weren't, he'd boot himself to the curb like he did Warner.

    Ramdez

    I, on the other hand, would quite gladly let go of Mike Martz when he eventually leaves the Rams.
    Right. You're saying that if they fired Martz today, and then Rams went 2-14 next year and 2-14 the year after that, you'd not be bitter and take to task those who called for Martz' head? PLEASE.

    What's done may be done.. but when something that was so controversial as Martz' discarding of Warner is done... and then things go south (as they have) that's the price of not speaking up at the time. The old "I toldja so" syndrome kicks in.

    It's human nature, and in many cases it's justified. Credibility of Shaw, et al, as well as Martz suffers dramatically. And those errors they made begin to magnify, and to a truly unattached and unemotional evaluation, they should reveal something.

    I don't think you are unemotional and unattached. I don't think any of us are. We want our Rams to do well.. and we have our opinions as to how that can happen. Those of us who wanted Warner to get a real shot this year (and last year, for that matter) are extremely bitter at Martz' hubris. We believe he's ruining the team. We believe he's wasted our talent. We will bring up evidence to support same.

    What good does it do? Don't know if no one's willing to see the evidence. We don't see what good being loyal to a coach who's destroyed our dynasty-to-be is.

    Every step further down the Martz path is TWO steps we have to take just to get back even.

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