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  1. #91
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    The reasons for keeping or replacing a QB and a coach could not be more different.
    Really? Then why were we treated to the simple explanation that it was all about performance? That Warner just didn't have it anymore? That Bulger was better? Another curious question.. why did bonehead Martz give Warner that extension and bonus? He was caught between a rock and a hard place.. the fans would have crucified him if he kicked Warner to the curb then... Martz would wait to see if Warner screwed up again, then he'd have excuse.. or.. Warner would lead them and Martz could take credit.

    So.. Warner has a bad concussion game, and the rest is history. It's all about performance, baby.

    Martz can't cut it. Cut him out now. This is no different than a discussion about the effect on the salary cap, etc. Martz remaining takes us down the wrong direction. It's a bad investment. That's why he needs to go now.

    Plus, it's Karma. Good for him. What has he done for us lately? TO THE CURB WITH HIM! IT'S WHAT HE'D DO TO HIMSELF IF HE WEREN'T A HYPOCRITE!!! LOLOLOL

    As for PETA.. LOL.

    I'm proud not only to deplore their methods, but to mock their goals as well.


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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    So you say ...........................



    but then I could argue the other way just fine. The facts are that you are unwilling to let someone bring their point across without trying to dilute it with Warner issues.

    This thread is Martz related.

    You have a history of continually bringing Warner into discussions and quite frankly, its getting disturbing LOL



    Mike Martz is the head coach of the St Louis Rams and I believe he will be the head coach of the St Louis Rams next year as well. I can not say with certainty that he will be in two years but that’s football.



    That’s what you are trying to deny and the fact is you can not.



    AND



    I will say it one last time.



    If Mike Martz was to leave this team at ANY time, I would stick with what we have and support MY Rams.



    Maybe that’s the difference between me and you. I can support a team without being bitter. I am not judging you; you are telling us this by your very actions.



    I have supported the Rams through good and bad times.



    These are not bad times.



    We have had a bad year.



    I choose not to blame at this point in time. I do point out where I believe the Rams have week points and hope that they can correct them.



    You on the other hand are blinded by whatever it is that has gotten under your skin and as a result, not matter what anyone says here on this or any other forum, you will blindly stick to your line of thought.



    I on the other hand, am willing to listen to sensible argument, put over in a clear and documented way, like Avengers, and if I feel they are relevant, I will try and find a counter. If I don’t find a counter point, then I will re evaluate.



    you, my friend, by your very actions, will just keep pounding the keyboards like you have done since Warner left.


  3. #93
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    It’s not Martz fault!

    There are no tools in the toolbox.

    Starting Right Tackle – Turley Out
    Backup Right Tackle – Williams Out
    Starting Center – Wohlabaugh Out
    Starting Quarterback – Bluger Out
    Backup Quarterback – Chandler Ugly
    Starting Guard – Dishman Out
    Backup Guard – Nutten Out
    Starting Running Back – Marshall, injured
    Backup Running Back – Jackson Out

    Game plan and play calling cannot overcome the loss of talent.

  4. #94
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Starting Right Tackle – Turley Out
    Backup Right Tackle – Williams Out
    Starting Center – Wohlabaugh Out
    Starting Quarterback – Bluger Out
    Backup Quarterback – Chandler Ugly
    Starting Guard – Dishman Out
    Backup Guard – Nutten Out
    Starting Running Back – Marshall, injured
    Backup Running Back – Jackson Out
    So.. you say that the Cards matched up with us, player for player, talent for talent yesterday, and whipped our butts because they were the better team?

    (BTW.. Jackson wasn't out..... and why did Martz go with Chandler and Martin if they were uglier and ugly?... again.. no one else but the rams have injuries, I'm sure.)

  5. #95
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    but those are the guys Martz chose to pick up as replacements. injuries are inevitable, it is how a HC deals with the injuries that defines him.

    Bellichek lost several DB's early in the season. what does he do. he puts in a WR to play the position and it works beautifully. now he has lost Poole for the season and I'm sure he'll plug someone else in and keep on winning.

    the difference is Bellichek adjusts with the game. Martz seems to refuse change. the Rams have had alot of injuries, yet he still wants to run 4 WR routes with an O-Line he knows is crap.

    the gameplan needs to change with the personnel. Chandler is not Bulger and wasn't in the same sentence with Bulger when he was good.

    why is Indy successful? because they use the run to set up the pass. Martz seems to use that gameplan in reverse ( pass to set up the run ).

    on a day when the running game needed to be the emphasis, the Rams ran 10 times, FOR THE ENTIRE GAME.

    I would love to see and have been waiting to see Martz finally adjust to his team and this league. I just don't know if he is capable of change.

  6. #96
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    I on the other hand, am willing to listen to sensible argument, put over in a clear and documented way, like Avengers, and if I feel they are relevant, I will try and find a counter. If I don’t find a counter point, then I will re evaluate.
    Then tell me this.

    What WILL it take for you to get off the Martz bandwagon?

    Maybe two losing seasons in a row is what it takes for you. For me.. having hopscotch years of losing seasons peppered with seasons where we SHOULD have had a losing record, if not save for the overacheiving defensive takeaway specialists and kicker.. that's more than enough. Of course it was enough when the idiot kicked Warner to the curb starting in 2003. The rest is simply further evidence that MARTZ MUST GO!!!

  7. #97
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Whatever you might think of Dez's opinion, I can assure you that Dez and the term "bandwagon" never belong in the same thought.

  8. #98
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    We did run the ball, 10 attempts for 22 yards, and average of 2 yards per carry. Ignore the one draw play of 12 yards, 9 attempts for 10 yards, an average of 1 yard per carry.

    I guess we could have run the ball 30 times and racked up 60 yards of rushing! Face it; the Cardinals controlled the line of scrimmage, and the reason is the loss of Turley, Wohlabaugh, Williams, and Nutten. Not to mention injury to Timmerman.

    Why Jackson didn’t play is a mystery. Either Martz allows Marshall to make the decision, and Marshall didn’t take himself out. Or, the Rams see Jackson as their next feature back and didn’t want to expose him to potential further injury in a futile effort.

    Jackson might have had greater success as compared to Marshall, but it wouldn’t have made a significant difference, so why expose him to further injury.

    Remember, Martz didn’t throw the interceptions, or fumble on the 1-yard line.

  9. #99
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Whatever you might think of Dez's opinion, I can assure you that Dez and the term "bandwagon" never belong in the same thought.
    Hm.

    Main Entry: band·wag·on
    Pronunciation: 'band-"wa-g&n
    Function: noun
    1 : a usually ornate and high wagon for a band of musicians especially in a circus parade
    2 : a popular party, faction, or cause that attracts growing support -- often used in such phrases as climb on the bandwagon
    3 : a current or fashionable trend
    See item 2. It doesn't have to be item 3 all the time.

  10. #100
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    atc....here's a good example of when Martz would go

    atc.....since you like to use a Warner example in 99.99999999 percent of your posts, I'll throw you a bone on this one.

    If next year the Rams start out 0-8, then by all means it's time to cut the cord.

  11. #101
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    If next year the Rams start out 0-8, then by all means it's time to cut the cord.
    Cool.

    We have your standard. That's what it will take. I guess the final chapter in our stories have yet to be written, eh?

    Despite all your rationalizations and excuses, the Rams have not been the same team since Warner was hurt in 2002. The Rams have not produced on the field, even counting the 2004 smoke-and-mirrors sham.

    If Martz was what you said he was, he would have something to show for all this talent.

    We will only be truly able to tell when Martz gets the ax and fails elsewhere. Meanwhile, Warner has gained nothing but respect in his new location. We shall see what next year brings.

    One way or another, one of us will be shown to be foolish in their assessment. Will it be the one who denigrates the ONLY QB to ever bring home a Lombardi Trophy for our Team? Or will it be the one who denigrates the ONLY COACH who ever wasted such an array of talent as we had assembled.

    I guess we'll see.

    (BTW.. your boy Bulger... how long can he take the pounding dished out due to Martz' lack of vision in his player movements? Will his injuries compound and lead to poor performance... and another QB career kicked to the curb? Stay tuned.)

  12. #102
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaRamsFanLongTime
    GSOT is beyond any QB that does not have what the Rams had back then. The O-Line is gone and so is alot of other key ingriedent's. People want to talk about the facts when it comes to Bulger and Warner, well the facts are Warner had more toys to play with and had a line that protected him. When the toys decided they wanted to be in another toy box one guy stepped up and made do with what he had the other was definatly frantic but I dont know about fast. KW has lost his ability to think when rushed and the facts are because of this line the Rams QB has to think while being pressured and Bulger does a great job at that.
    Finally! Someone with common sense and courage to say the forbidden with the likes of ... ranting forever because KW a'int ever gonna be the same again unless he has all day to throw the ball.

    Awesome post LaRamsFanLongTime!

    Brilliant!!

    On the sMartz issue, I would have to say I am inclined to favor AV's thinking. Leaders adjust whether trying to save a ship and its crew or trying to tinker a gameplan to remain competitive when the playoffs are on the line.

    All the commentary in this post just reflects the fact that Bulger did not receive special playcalling from 2002 to present and that letting go Warner was the right choice.

    His experience from Arena football did not help him much in NY, or the 2002 season and his grand performance in 2003 whatever side of concussiongate you take.

    If anyone is looking fo a scapegoat for the last SB the RAMS were in, Kurt Warner is your guy. His "give me" to Ty Law lost the game plain and simple.
    So share all your ire for MM and the lost SB and distribute that to KW for that historic loss. Those seven points cost the game. Period.

    Will Martz go probably not. Like Haslett in NO, I think both teams/FO will try to get their $$$ worth for at least one more season before taking the write off; but with tight reins inserted.

    Being a Smartz and Warner and RAMS supporter for many years, I had to deal with losing Roman and John Hadl and ED and so many greats that I have acclimated to the vagaries of the NFL.

    Get over the Warner issue! Letting go of KW was one of the few things that MM has done correctly in recent memory. I will get over the firing of MM just as fast and will root for any new member or coach of the RAMS with same awesome passion I have exerted for the last 30 years and for the next 30 years.

    Quick question, Do good christians believe in karma? :tongue:
    Last edited by fearlessone; -12-20-2004 at 02:42 PM.
    Socrates: Surf to live! and Live to Surf!

  13. #103
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    Actually, this is from HowardB....

    Does this mean some Ram fans will be pulling for the Cards today?




    Probably. Then, they can hire some unproven coach that will change everything, and when the team doesn't win next year with all this overwhelming talent, it will again be the fault of thew coach.

    I wonder if the Steelers would be tied for the best record in the NFL if they had changed coaches when Cowher and the team had a bad year. It's happened twice, and each time by retaining Cowher, they have rebounded.

    It's easy to fire a coach. But it's lot harder to find another coach you know will be better.
    Yea, you could fire Martz. However, will that guarantee success? Not sure.
    Last edited by txramsfan; -12-20-2004 at 02:51 PM.

  14. #104
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Yea, you could fire Martz. However, will that guarantee success? Not sure.
    Easy answer. It's NO. There are no guarantees where success is concerned.

    However, what would it guarantee? That Mr. Hubris would no longer be running our team into the ground. Give someone else a chance.

  15. #105
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Finally! Someone with common sense and courage to say the forbidden with the likes of ... ranting forever because KW a'int ever gonna be the same again unless he has all day to throw the ball
    Obviously someone who never saw Warner play 1999-2001. Warner NEVER had "forever" in the pocket. He was always throwing on the move, at the last second, and taking shots FOR THE TEAM.

    All the commentary in this post just reflects the fact that Bulger did not receive special playcalling from 2002 to present and that letting go Warner was the right choice.
    And Bulger did not perform up to the standards Warner set down. We're mired at 6-8, and your boy gave the playoffs away to the Panthers last year. I think the jury is still out on what "the right choice" is.

    His experience from Arena football did not help him much in NY, or the 2002 season and his grand performance in 2003 whatever side of concussiongate you take.
    Actually, his performance in NY has been getting very positive reviews (from anyone who understands the first thing about football), in addition, his experience kept 2002 from being worse than it already was. No other QB in the league would have kept us in ballgames with the beatings that he took. As for 2003, there was no performance to judge. At least he didn't throw as many picks as Ints.. and on his only game threw for over 300 yds. How many times did your boy do that.. this year or last?

    Quick question, Do good christians believe in karma?
    Not to make things personal or anything, or bring religion into it or anything, right?

    Would you have liked it better if I said "Bachi"? The Hawaiian pidgin term for "getting what you deserve"? Or would you have liked it better if I used a Jewish tenet such as "an eye for an eye"?

    One doesn't have to BELIEVE in something in order for one to reference it so that people know about what you are talking.

    But, then again, anyone who would use the term "good christian" has shown me where they stand on the issue in the first place.

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