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  1. #106
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Yea, you could fire Martz. However, will that guarantee success? Not sure.
    You can never guarantee success, but sometimes a move just has to be made. I equate this situation with what happened in Tampa. Tony Dungy, good coach with a winning track record who just couldn't put it all together. The team sees the need for a change to shake things up, brings in Jon Gruden and wins a Super Bowl with pretty much the same personnel. While I think the Rams missed their opportunity to bring someone in to take advantage of the talent we had the last few years, it's not too late to resurrect a franchise that is wasting away.


  2. #107
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    While I think the Rams missed their opportunity to bring someone in to take advantage of the talent we had the last few years, it's not too late to resurrect a franchise that is wasting away.
    /agree 100%

  3. #108
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    "An eye for an eye" is hardly a "Jewish tenent." Rather, its a passage from the Book of Exodus (which is part of the Christian Old Testament, last time I checked, as well as the Jewish Torah), that is widely misinterpreted. The Jewish interpretation, per the Talmud, is merely that punishments should be proportional (as opposed to identical) to the crime.

    And, atc, if you think I've just taken the discussion on an unnecessary tangent - now you know how most of the rest of us feel by your constant rehashing of Warner's departure in a thread that has nothing to do with Warner.

  4. #109
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    well av, you've certaintly stirred up the nest...LOL

    i empathize with your frustration but perhaps you're pulling the trigger on martz a tad too soon...the birds were blitzing on nearly every play in the first half. i couldn't tell if they were pass or run blitzing but they were blitzing full time...running an iso or a counter run plays on a run blitz usually doesn't work but a screen does, usually...but then when was the last time the rams were known for their screen plays...LOL
    you mentioned "flexibility" and i agree with your points but flexibility also means having the personnel to "flex". sure, as another poster pointed out, every team has injuries and they all have to contend with backups playing at some points of the season, but martz's system is predicated on the pass and next to the QB the o-line may be the most important in terms of consistency...

    it didn't help that chandler was completely out of sync. of course it doesn't bode well for martz either in that he couldn't get chandler better prepared...i concede...

    another point of contention with regards to letting martz go during the offseason is that he is still under contract with one more season left(i believe martz signed a five yr deal in 2000)...it means that if shaw and georgia wants another man they'll have to settle with martz...now, when was the last time georgia gave away millions for nothing in return??? as some have pointed out, it's done all the time, but when has georgia done it?

    personally, i think martz can still get the job done with the skill position personnel on offense; but the FO needs to look in the FA for o-line upgrade...i'm flabbergasted with the defense but it may be just two or three solid players away from a good defense ( better tackling weak side linebacker, a true middle linebacker and a good safety)

    considering the rams had a pretty difficult schedule this season (most of us optomists had them going 9-7 or 11-5 during the preseason) it's not too shocking to see them go 6 and 10, especially when you consider the starting QB is out two or three games...

    i'm enticed by the availability of nick saban of lsu or crenell of the pats but, i think shaw and georgia will stick with martz for the last season on his contract...

  5. #110
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Sometimes the ball bounces the wrong way, sometimes there's just a better team out there.
    Neither of which were reasons the Rams under achieved or lost the superbowl

  6. #111
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    Re: If we aren't kissing babies.....

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    we are stealing their lollipops aren't we.....

    Been a weird year guys. Close but no cigar. Turnover ratio flipped on us this year. The talent was the same, but the breaks went the other way. When that happens, lop of heads right? Wrong. Fix a few.

    Look, in the day and age of the salary cap....injuries and personnel losses are critical. At one point this year, every CB was hurt. At the same time. Personnelwise, I think it's finally safe to say we whiffed on DLew, Arch has moments, and Pickett has come on. Polley has played his way back onto the team I think, but Thomas has to go. Losing your starting G and C during training camp was huge. Bulger going down was the knockout blow.

    No, I don't see why Martz needs to be fired. However, I do think tweaks to the offseason regiment are in order.
    I agree Tex, but I'd like to see the Front Office pull back on the reins a bit and try to find solutions to some of Martz's problem areas. Still, we were competing for HFA last season. I think it's a bit premature to be calling for his firing now, but I do think we need to look heavily at what's not right here.


    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    The Rams are just a few pieces of the puzzle away from turning this thing around. So we had a down year. It happens. Shoot, Carolina went from 2-14, to the Super Bowl, then 6-8. Injuries are so key in the salary cap era, and to lose two starting O lineman prior to even the first preseason game was an indication of how this year was going to go.
    Good points. I think we're a few pieces away offensively from turning things around, but defensively, I'm not so sure. We're a team that's built to play Cover 2 but with a coordinator that's shying away from that slowly. If that's the direction we're going, it's going to take more than a few pieces to shore up the defense. But if we want to stay primarily around Cover 2, I think we showed last season we have what it takes to make it work. Add some tweaks here or there, and we could have something.


    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Good coaches make the necessary adjustments and tweaks to compensate for adversity.
    You mean good coaches like Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, and Jeff Fisher? Interestingly enough, they're all losing this season, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by atcchris
    BTW.. Jackson wasn't out
    He certainly wasn't in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tailgage-Mayor
    We did run the ball, 10 attempts for 22 yards, and average of 2 yards per carry. Ignore the one draw play of 12 yards, 9 attempts for 10 yards, an average of 1 yard per carry.

    I guess we could have run the ball 30 times and racked up 60 yards of rushing! Face it; the Cardinals controlled the line of scrimmage, and the reason is the loss of Turley, Wohlabaugh, Williams, and Nutten. Not to mention injury to Timmerman.

    Why Jackson didn’t play is a mystery. Either Martz allows Marshall to make the decision, and Marshall didn’t take himself out. Or, the Rams see Jackson as their next feature back and didn’t want to expose him to potential further injury in a futile effort.

    Jackson might have had greater success as compared to Marshall, but it wouldn’t have made a significant difference, so why expose him to further injury.

    Remember, Martz didn’t throw the interceptions, or fumble on the 1-yard line.
    Very good post. It always baffles me how people think rushing the ball ten more times is going to suddenly break open the defense. Arizona controlled the line because our offensive unit up front is patchwork at best. Chandler had a pretty decent (comparibly) running game against the Panthers, and he threw six interceptions. How can we believe a more established running game today would have fixed all the overthrows or miscommunications? Hell, Chandler threw on a run play!


    Quote Originally Posted by rampete
    running an iso or a counter run plays on a run blitz usually doesn't work but a screen does, usually
    Not when your quarterback can't hit the receiver on said screen, though. Martz alluded to as much in the post-game interview, saying Chandler couldn't hit the wide out on a screen that was called.
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  7. #112
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    You mean good coaches like Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, and Jeff Fisher? Interestingly enough, they're all losing this season, too.
    Actually I was thinking more like Bill Belichick, Herm Edwards and Brian Billick who all have had to deal with adversity of their own this year. They're all winning this season.

  8. #113
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    Actually I was thinking more like Bill Belichick, Herm Edwards and Brian Billick who all have had to deal with adversity of their own this year. They're all winning this season.
    So then are the names I mentioned not in your list of good coaches?
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  9. #114
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    I just want to add that I think it is unfair and absurd to have a Martz discussion without bringing up Warner. That is like saying Lets discuss Martz but you cannot bring up Mart's successes i.e. his taking the rams to the superbowl in 2001 or he was a great OC. Though I am not familiar with the history between you all I am familiar with the history of the Rams. Especially recent history and Warner belongs in any discussion regarding the Rams when warranted. I think only the person typing the post should have the say so of weather or not it is warranted. I trust you see how ridiculous this is and how it alludes to a dictatorship.

  10. #115
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Well, I started the discussion, and I can tell you that Kurt Warner is entirely irrelevant to my opinion of Mike Martz.


    I am evaluating Mike Martz based upon his ability to deal with adversity, and that mostly relates to this year. Warner was a Giant this year, last time I checked.

    If anyone wants to post something disagreeing with this, that's fine. But what we've seen instead is merely a rehash of old Warner issues expressed therough highly attenuated (at best) connections to the Martz situation.

    If someone wants post a cogent argument Martz should be gone because he let Kurt Warner go, be my guest. I've yet to see that post, and I don't expect I will see it any time soon.

  11. #116
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    So then are the names I mentioned not in your list of good coaches?
    This isn't really about who is a good coach or not, it's about good coaches who make the necessary adjustments in the face of adversity and do it successfully, right? At least that's the context I'm dealing with.

  12. #117
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    This is what I want to know: Is Martz ever going to have a team as good as the 2001 Rams? If he was unable to get a ring with that team then a ring may not be in his future.

    We did run the ball, 10 attempts for 22 yards, and average of 2 yards per carry.
    By this rationale, if the first pass is incomplete then you might as well quit passing. I mean, 0 for 1 for zero yards is going to average out to 0 for 50 for zero yards. No point in trying to make it work.

  13. #118
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Let's put this another way.


    If Mike Martz was a chef, his specialty would be a souffle. Now, if a souffle is made correctly, it can be absolutely delicious. Why, it could be the best thing you ever ate. But, everything has to be right. Omit one ingredient, under or overcook it, or fail to serve it at the exact right temperature, and it can get ruined.

    Other coaches would never try to make a souffle. Instead, they like to make a good stew. Now, a good stew may not be fancy, and it may not be the most impressive dish ever, but its filling and down right tasty. Plus, you don't have to have everything perfect. No carrots? Use parsnips. No corn? Use peas. No beef stock? Use chicken stock. In the end, it can still be a great meal.

    We need a stew chef.

  14. #119
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    This isn't really about who is a good coach or not, it's about good coaches who make the necessary adjustments in the face of adversity and do it successfully, right? At least that's the context I'm dealing with.
    And my point is sometimes even the best of coaches are unable to do that based upon what they're working with. Therefore, it's not always an issue of coaching.
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  15. #120
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    Re: Today, Mike Martz lost my support. Its time for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    Let's put this another way.


    If Mike Martz was a chef, his specialty would be a souffle. Now, if a souffle is made correctly, it can be absolutely delicious. Why, it could be the best thing you ever ate. But, everything has to be right. Omit one ingredient, under or overcook it, or fail to serve it at the exact right temperature, and it can get ruined.

    Other coaches would never try to make a souffle. Instead, they like to make a good stew. Now, a good stew may not be fancy, and it may not be the most impressive dish ever, but its filling and down right tasty. Plus, you don't have to have everything perfect. No carrots? Use parsnips. No corn? Use peas. No beef stock? Use chicken stock. In the end, it can still be a great meal.

    We need a stew chef.

    Wow, what an analogy. Just warn me next time before I spew water all over my screen laughing.

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