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Thread: Travis Fisher

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    AlphaRam is offline Registered User
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    Travis Fisher

    Travis Fisher is a huge hole in our defense. If you want to get big fantasy points, get the receiver going against Fisher on any given game, Ron bartell is the back-up, but should be starting ahead of Fisher. This is nothing new...remember when Fisher poked Steve Smith in the eye during the divisional playoff game in 2003? He did it because he gets burned.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    I'll be posting a detailed article on Thursday which takes a closer look at Fisher's play in the Seahawks game. In it, and hopefully I'm not spoiling anything for anyone, the conclusions drawn from the observations of game tape suggest his bad play in that contest is an exaggeration. In past threads I've provided detailed analysis of past game tape to counter similar claims. Many of those points have gone uncontested. If you really feel Fisher is a huge hole in our defense, I'd encourage you to go back and respond to those points to support your case. I can provide links if you'd like. Otherwise it would be interesting to see your supporting details here where you made the claim.

    That being said, there's an incredibly important point that many posters have been saying which needs to be repeated here - any cornerback is going to look bad when your defense cannot get pressure on the quarterback. Good quarterbacks who have all day to throw are going to find their target. Is it any coincidence that our secondary (heck, the entire defense) looked pretty good in the first half against Seattle when the Rams achieved three sacks, but in the second half crumbled against Seattle's offense while only producing one sack and failing to get adequate pressure?

    It's easy to look at cornerbacks when things go wrong in coverage because they're right there with the receivers, but I would contend a team's ability to get pressure is equally if not more important to successful pass defense, and it's something the Rams have been inconsistent at if not struggled with from a consistency standpoint thus far this season.

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    AlphaRam is offline Registered User
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    The game will be shown on NFL replay in about an hour (7 PM CST). Since I haven't gotten to see any Rams games on TV here, I have to rely on the Rams Radio Network for my information most of the time.

    This is the first time I have singled out one of our players. I have been unimpressed with Travis Fisher for several years. I understand that cornerbacks and safties get burned from time to time, but he seem to get burned more often than he should for the speed he possesses. I believe he is the fastest player on the team, if I am not mistaken.

    I was mistaken, NFL Replay is at 9:30 CST.
    Last edited by Nick; -10-17-2006 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Merging back to back posts
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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaRam View Post
    The game will be shown on NFL replay in about an hour (7 PM CST). Since I haven't gotten to see any Rams games on TV here, I have to rely on the Rams Radio Network for my information most of the time.
    I would really suggest taking a look at the game and watching it, then drawing conclusions based on your observations. As informative as Rams Radio is, I would imagine it would be pretty difficult to comment on anyone's play through the season if you haven't had a chance to actually watch the game itself. Savard and Hannifan are great, but you gain so much more insight sitting down and watching things yourself with the ability to slow-mo things and rewind to take another look.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaRam View Post
    This is the first time I have singled out one of our players. I have been unimpressed with Travis Fisher for several years. I understand that cornerbacks and safties get burned from time to time, but he seem to get burned more often than he should for the speed he possesses. I believe he is the fastest player on the team, if I am not mistaken.
    For clarity's sake, I believe the fastest players on our team are Curtis and Hill. Based on their rookie agility test numbers, Hill (4.31) and Curtis (4.32) were both half a hundreth of a second faster in the 40-yard dash than Fisher was (4.37).

    But back to the point, can you provide examples of Fisher getting burned often this season? I'll be the first to point to the Arizona game as a contest in which he didn't play well, though both of the big plays he gave up came on quick patterns where he couldn't make the tackle (one was a slant to Boldin and the other a quick out to Johnson). To me, that's not getting burned, but rather just poor tackling on Fisher's part.

    When I hear about a guy getting burned, I associate with someone giving up big deep plays, and I'm not sure he's let a receiver get behind him deep all year thus far. But perhaps someone can point me in the direction of a game and a play if that's not correct.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    As one of those who has decried our inability to get consistent pressure on the opposing teams QB, with all that means for the play of the secondary, I have to agree with Nick here.

    If we are to be wholly consistent with our critiques of then guys in the secondary then the fact that you've been burned would mean that Tye Hill may well come in for the type of criticism that Fisher has received. I'm sure you'd all agree that this would be harsh and would point out that he's a first year player. If that counts in mitigation (and I think it does) then I think that our lack of a pass rush should also factor into our views of the situation.

    Glover, the much heralded free agent signing, as well as Kennedy, have failed to provide the push in the middle that helps to free up the ends and get our secondary in a position where they can make a play on a poorly thrown ball. You gave any NFL QB around 5 seconds post snap and they will find their target. You give a good one the same time and they will kill you all day.

    A salient fact to observe is that whilst some teams can get a decent rush out of their base D or even three down linemen we can't. To get pressure we have to send people on every passing down which in turn will leave holes. It leads to the kind of inconsistency we've seen.

    Don't want to teach anyone to suck eggs here, it's just that if we are really going to throw some tough love around then maybe the front four haven't been getting their share.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Optimally, I would have the ability to watch each game and have the ability to reverse and re-watch in slow-motion. However, I have to settle for NFL replay this evening, highlights on Sportscenter, and what I hear on Rams Radio for information this season. Unfortunately, the networks think that everyone in oklahoma is a Chiefs or Cowboys fan.

    However, I base my opinion on the play of Travis Fisher over the past several seasons. Still, I admit that I have not seen every game (though not through lack of desire) over the past several seasons. I can only base my opinion on the information that I have.
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    Re: Travis Fisher

    I would definatly give Bartell more playing time and see how he reacts to it.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaRam View Post
    I can only base my opinion on the information that I have.
    What information would that be? You admit to having not watched the Rams games but rather you've listened to them, so do you remember specific examples of Fisher's play this season that support your opinion? You said your opinion on Fisher is based on play over the past several seasons, but obviously something happened this season and likely recently to cause you to call him out now. What was that?

    In another thread you went on to say that "Every week when somebody catches a big pass against us, I know that the next sentence will have Travis Fisher's name in it." I assume you base those comments on something you heard on game day, but when I said in an earlier response in this thread that I don't recall Fisher allowing a receiver to get behind him deep all year, you didn't correct me. Can you provide examples of those instances?

    I guess I'm just looking for the specific errors that compelled you to call Fisher out, admittedly the first time you've done so with a player.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Quote Originally Posted by chipperjones
    I would definatly give Bartell more playing time and see how he reacts to it.
    I agree, he has had one more year to season than Hill, and would be a good physical precence on the other side of Brown. Now, in no way am I saying that Bartell would play better than Hill, or Fisher at that but a change up, or mix up is one thing that could be needed to be effective on Pass Defense.

    Really though, if we can eliminate those big plays that we give up about three or four times a game, we'd be much better on Defense.


    Hopefully though, now that the Jim Haslett will have had more time to view game footage on our players, that he'll see that Fisher has been doing a poor job, and will possibly change something up either Starting Brown and Hill, Bartell, or Butler.

    I have faith in what the coach thinks though.
    Last edited by RamsFan16; -10-17-2006 at 10:20 PM.
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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    Hopefully though, now that the Jim Haslett will have had more time to view game footage on our players, that he'll see that Fisher has been doing a poor job, and will possibly change something up either Starting Brown and Hill, Bartell, or Butler.
    I've asked Alpha to provide specific examples, and I'll extend the invitation to you as well. You claim Fisher has been doing a poor job and Haslett would know this if he viewed the game footage. If that's the case, can you provide the specific supporting information to back that up?

    You can skip over the Arizona game if you'd like, because I'll be the first one to tell you that Fisher had two costly mistakes in that game where poor tackling resulted in big runs on short receptions. But, other examples?

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    How am I supposed to give you examples, get video clips?
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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    How am I supposed to give you examples, get video clips?
    Name me some plays and the games they were in. I have the videos, so I'll check them out. Since you're already of the opinion that Fisher has been playing poorly, I would think you would already know some plays from this season to support that opinion.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Hopefully though, now that the Jim Haslett will have had more time to view game footage on our players, that he'll see that Fisher has been doing a poor job... RamsFan16
    Good comment, 16. BTW, is that No. 22 getting burned on a costly Hawk TD?

    This general idea about DB's, whether cornerbacks or safeties, made to 'look bad' as a result of the DL's failure to pressure the QB, I think, is very narrow sighted. That's what DB's are for, one of their basic functions is to suppoprt and defend the secondary in case the QB is able to pass!

    I think the picture in your current signature speaks a 1000, easily, sadly. :x

    Can't get much more specific than that. Fisher has failed badly on a few occasions that have been extremely costly.

    Alpha, I suggest you don't need to look too closely or replay too many times plays like the one that ended as captured in 16's photo. It speaks for itself.
    Last edited by RealRam; -10-17-2006 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Color

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    The picture in Rams 16 signature is one example and it captures a fundamental problem in Fisher's coverage. Too often, as in that picture of the Branch TD, Fisher fails to turn to locate the ball. If that isn't an example of poor play on FIsher's part then I don't know what is. Sure he's fast enough to stay with most WR's, but what does that matter when he lacks the instincts to locate the ball.

    It is also true that the front four does nothing to help FIsher, but it doesn't change the fact that he is a weak cover corner. He was a better fit in Lovie's cover-2. He is a better tackler than Butler and I haven't seen enough of Bartell to compare his tackling skills to Fisher's, so I can't make a fair assessment there. Right now Fisher, sadly, might be the lesser of all evils in the rams' secondary.

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    Re: Travis Fisher

    Good point on the picture, and exactly right RealRam and radjohns, Nick, now I know your as smart as they come, and probrably one of the if not smartest person I know. But this (in my picture) is the Touchdown that you said was a Perfect pass and was perfect coverage on Fisher, but if you look (and I know it s apicture, and it could have looked diffrently) but it could have been prevented, as in the touchdown if Travis Fisher would locate the ball rather than depend on the reciever dropping it.
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