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  1. #1
    hawaiianpunch's Avatar
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    The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Ive heared a lot of talk, about how our linebacker core is almost complete. and no one knows where to put Pisa Tinoisamoa. And Pisa Is not an every down back. It makes me wonder why people say this. I am his Biggest fan so im Bias. But here is my Reasoning. I Say all this speak is Blasphemy!

    Pisa Tinoisamoa In college had the most sacks for any linebacker, totaling 24 sacks in one season, when he was in the NCAA, also the most tackles in his division.

    Then again i have heared many say that Pisa is not the greatest but he is Average.

    Average!? Ill show you average!

    Pisa Tinoisamoa Lead the Team in Tackles! 2003(his rookie season) with 121 tackles and 3 interceptions,and again in 2004 until he was injured, and 2005. and in 2007, Pisa had 79 tackles 4 passes defended and was 5th in the team on tackles while missing 8 games in 2007, with a broken foot.

    And this year, in 2008 with 98 tackles and 15 assist tackles, 5 passes defended, 2 forced fumbles and had the most sacks out of all the linebackers with 3. Pisa again went on to lead the team in tackles before Jason Craft (who also played on special teams), and even Will Witherspoon(who i also like).

    To add to this impressive resume, Pisa had 42 tackles over three-game span during 2001 season were the most by a Ram over three games tying London Fletcher, and then collected 46 over the same span in 2007, Which is most by any Ram ever.

    knowing this idk why the name Tinoisamoa is disgarded as not any every down back.

    Now With Spagnolo at the helm of Head coach, who we know loves to mix up his blitz coverages, with linebackers and d - lineman droppin in and out of coverage. i Think Tinoisamoa's game will finally be right where they need him to be, blitzing the quarter back.

    I think Hawaii-50 has earned a little more praise then the rams fans have showed him knowing the weird coaches we've gone through since Pisa has in the Mix.

    I think that credit is deserved, where credit is due. And knowing how crappy our defense was... i think Pisa deserves a little respect, as one of the best on the team, but it is a team effort, and i think he deserves just a little more kudos. i think our team would be a lot different without him.

    Thats my opinion, and if you can refute me i will gladly take a step back and say that Pisa Tinoisamoa, is Average. but until then, Hawaii-50 please keep doing what your doing.

    leading the team in tackles.

    -Ramblings Hawaiianpunch


  2. #2
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    I think you are right on some things here. Here is the problem with Pisa he isn't good in coverage and he is undersized otherwise your are pretty much spot on in what you say. The thing is Pisa is more like 225 than his listed 240. Do we have the NT so he can be affective on the strong side at his preferred weight? Because if we don't it will be a re-run of 2007 where he was banged up all year.

    Pisa is an underrated blitzer and he could get at least 5 sacks with Spags at the helm. He is a good against the run, but playing on the strong side he will struggle in coverage against TE's.

    Basically Pisa's health and level of play all depends on Dorrell Scott and Cliff Ryan.

  3. #3
    hawaiianpunch's Avatar
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    but thats the thing. the rams are worse against the run then they are against the pass. Rams always had trouble stopping the run even a little when Lovi smith was there. I always thought that the corner's and LB's on the Team were pretty solid, at pass defense. Pisa also forced 3 of the interceptions Last year while dropping in pass coverage. I will admit he is a little week in the passing suit.

    This is exactly my point though, put a player where his strong suits are and he will have success. and there are many times where i have seen him force many turnovers off the pass and off the run.

    But in the End you are right. How Good are the linebackers with out their trenches. So Pisa is not the problem. The D - line is.

    Battles are always won in the trenches my friend.
    Last edited by hawaiianpunch; -04-30-2009 at 01:31 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    I completely agree with you. Always been a huge fan of his and I think he is not appreciated enough by rams fans.

  5. #5
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    I love Pisa, the only thing holding him back is his health. I remember him playing in one game with that cast on his arm, and then going out and I believe breaking the other arm! Didn't he actually try playing with both arms in a cast once? I can't remember if that happened, or if it was just an announcer saying if they'd let him he would.
    Anyway, he's a fine overall linebacker, and I expect him to improve as our defensive line improves.

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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Pisa, like the rest of the defense..heck ,the whole team, is very inconsistent and can't stay healthy. I love his energy and heart but,imo, he's either great or disappears.

    I don't think there's actually much difference between Pisa when he's on & Spoon vs the run but Spoon is definitely better at play action pass recognition and coverage to my amateur eyes.

    I believe this was actually the first year Pisa has led the team in tackles. He had 76 in his debut year according to NFLdotcom, 3 fewer than Archuleta. And there have been several years down around 40-50, mostly because of the injuries.

    But there comes a point where injuries aren't an excuse; they are a career characteristic. I think he's getting close.

    Yes, he was the best of the worst last year but c'mon; Mr irrelevant started a game @ MLB for The Rams & it really wasn't noticeably more atrocious. Big fish , little pond.

    We need to start grading on a steeper curve if Pisa was better than average over the whole season.

    Btw,I always thought it was strange last year that Haslett & he were talking about how he had to change his technique to avoid the injuries. How do you get to be a starting LB in the NFL without sound tackling technique?

    Personally, I'd rather see him rotate with Spoon @ WILL this year than let him get beat up at SAM. Keep them both fresh & healthy. With hopefully better safety and fellow LB support, he may not be as much of a liability in coverage and both may be more productive with less playing time,ironically.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -04-30-2009 at 03:02 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    I think Pisa suffers from the same trait as another LB some wished we had drafted instead of The Animal. All of Rey's descriptions say he launches his body at his target. I saw this in Pisa when we first got him. Loved it at the time, but then he kept getting injured. Maybe that was the technique that Haslett was trying to fix.

    Pisa like anyone else on the team is useless if they can't play.
    This space for rent...

  8. #8
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    It's true that Pisa led the team in tackles in several years before Witherspoon came to town, but he was outperforming guys like Robert Thomas, Tommy Polley, and some years Adam Archuleta depending on which of them was injured for less of the year.

    I haven't really heard many complain that Tinoisamoa was only a two-down linebacker. The problem as I see it is that he and Witherspoon are both weakside linebackers, and neither one is perceived to have the strength/bulk to move to the strongside. After all, he's going to be going against the tight end on every play. Pisa is 240 lbs. Now compare that to even a relatively light pass-catching tight end like Tony Gonzalez at 251 lbs. or Antonio Gates at 260 lbs. Anthony Becht, our blocking tight end last year was 280 lbs. Putting Pisa at strongside, we'd be asking him to cover or take on the blocks from guys a lot bigger than him on pretty much every play.

    What this means is that if Pisa is going to play, it's not enough to just say that he's good. You really have to be able to make the case that he's better than Witherspoon.

  9. #9
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    It's pretty hard to grade one player at his position in a weak unit. Unless (Ex: Atogwe) he has some stats that jump out at you in a particular area.

    One thing we know for sure is that Spags has an eye for talent especially on the defensive side of the ball.

  10. #10
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiianpunch View Post
    I think Hawaii-50 has earned a little more praise then the rams fans have showed him
    And I agree. I've never understood why he gets thrown under the bus by Rams fans.

    But HUb, he always injured.

    In 96 possible games over his career, he has missed a grand total of 12. Five in '06, and 7 in '07. And ZERO in the most recent season.

    But HUb, he's too inconsistent.

    In his 4 healthy seasons, he led the team in tackles 3 years, and missed the lead in his rookie year by 3 tackles. Per nfl.com.

    But HUb, he's too small. He's only like 220 or 225.

    Raise your hand if you've weighed him. Anyone? I don't know if he's 150 or 300, but he's been the most consistent, playmaking LB in a Rams uniform for 6 years now, AND he's just now in his prime.

    IMO, shelving Pisa will be a mistake.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  11. #11
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    I'll give you that he's a good linebacker, and he's lead the team in tackles.

    And it's good he lead us in tackles, but most of his tackles are 5 - 6 yards downfield. I'd praise him much more if he was hitting them at the line. Not to mention, he's been missing alot of tackles and giving up Touchdowns.

    I don't remember what game it was, we be were on the verge of winning and they through the pass to the running back in the corner of the endzone, and all Pisa had to do was turn for the ball, it floated right over his helmet.

    While he's an average linebacker, his stats are misleading.
    RamsFan16

  12. #12
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Wasn't London Fletcher too small and not considered a good acquisition? How did that go when we let him slip away...?
    "The disappointment of losing is huge!"

    Jack Youngblood

  13. #13
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    I'll give you that he's a good linebacker, and he's lead the team in tackles.

    And it's good he lead us in tackles, but most of his tackles are 5 - 6 yards downfield. I'd praise him much more if he was hitting them at the line. Not to mention, he's been missing alot of tackles and giving up Touchdowns.

    I don't remember what game it was, we be were on the verge of winning and they through the pass to the running back in the corner of the endzone, and all Pisa had to do was turn for the ball, it floated right over his helmet.

    While he's an average linebacker, his stats are misleading.
    See, now, 16, that's just the thing about all the Pisa criticism. No offense here, pal. I love ya, kid; but all the criticism of Pisa is surrounded by lots of qualitative measures that nobody can pin down. Anecdotal rememberances that critics feel make the stats "misleading". You know......remember that one time when he did that one thing against that one team; remember?

    Tackles are tackles. He stops the guy with the ball more than everybody else on the defense. That's not misleading.

    My friend, show me the stats on WHERE he makes his tackles, then I'll buy into the notion that "most" of his tackles are 5-6 yards downfield.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #14
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    See, now, 16, that's just the thing about all the Pisa criticism. No offense here, pal. I love ya, kid; but all the criticism of Pisa is surrounded by lots of qualitative measures that nobody can pin down. Anecdotal rememberances that critics feel make the stats "misleading". You know......remember that one time when he did that one thing against that one team; remember?

    Tackles are tackles. He stops the guy with the ball more than everybody else on the defense. That's not misleading.

    My friend, show me the stats on WHERE he makes his tackles, then I'll buy into the notion that "most" of his tackles are 5-6 yards downfield.
    I'm searching the internet right now in regards of finding stats that back that up.

    And for the "size" people. He does ware down in the second half, He had 59 first half tackles, and 45 second half tackles. He also had 55 tackles when the Offense was in the Lone setback formation.

    But I'm currently surfing the web as I said in hopes of finding those stats to back me up
    RamsFan16

  15. #15
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    And for the "size" people. He does ware down in the second half, He had 59 first half tackles, and 45 second half tackles.
    You're right. Pisa's 1st half to 2nd half tackle percentage was 56.7% last year. Very similar to many of the top tacklers in the league, such as D'Qwell Jackson (53.3%), Barrett Ruud (56.0%), Kirk Morrison (52.3%), and Jarod Mayo (56.8%).


    Does anyone think they all wear down too?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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