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  1. #31
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    These negative arguments about Pisa are silly ...

    He's injury prone? How do you figure? He was beat up over a two season span. This frequently happens to bangers at that position. He's played the full 16 four out of 6 years ...

    Ray Lewis must be a real sissy then, he's only played the full 16 in 7 of his 14 years. And two of those seasons he played in less than 7 games ....

    Pisa sucks in pass coverage? Where does this come from? Alot of this is dependent on the schemes ...

    45 tackles for loss in his last 100 games played. Who would this player be? Ray Lewis ...

    Ahhhhh, Pisa is so under appreciated it's ridiculous, but what can you do?
    well atleast me and you appreciate him and others ive seen on this post.


  2. #32
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    It's pretty hard to grade one player at his position in a weak unit. Unless (Ex: Atogwe) he has some stats that jump out at you in a particular area.

    One thing we know for sure is that Spags has an eye for talent especially on the defensive side of the ball.
    This is exactly my point... Spags wants Pisa at WLB... Don't you think spags would of got rid of him if he was garbage? a defensive coach of his Calliber?

  3. #33
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFan16 View Post
    I'll give you that he's a good linebacker, and he's lead the team in tackles.

    And it's good he lead us in tackles, but most of his tackles are 5 - 6 yards downfield.
    2008 = 19 tackles for loss. thats a crap load by my standards. like i say to my competetors on madden... "the stats dont lie!"

  4. #34
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    What is funny is that any argument made about Pisa's inability to shed blockers and getting pushed into the second level could be said about Witherspoon ...

    The same argument can be made that Witherspoon wears down in the second half of games, and more importantly the second half of the season ...

    For his career, Witherspoon averages 6.0 tackles/game, Pisa averages 5.4. Considering Witherspoon plays primarily the middle, and should a few more opportunities, I don't see much difference here ...

    So, why is it that Witherspoon gets a ton of respect and Pisa gets none?

  5. #35
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Just to make this interesting, I thought I'd go to the play-by-plays on NFL.com and just pull all the plays Pisa was in on for the first half of last season. Here's what I found:

    WK1
    run up the middle: 7 yards (Chavous, Pisa)
    run left tackle: -2 yards (Pisa)

    pass deep middle: 31 yards (Pisa)
    run right end no gain: (Hill, Pisa)
    pass short middle: 10 yards (Will, Pisa)
    >pass short right: 15 yards (Will)...Pisa injured on the play, return probable
    pass short right: 9 yards (Pisa)

    WK2
    pass short right: 5 yards (Pisa)
    run left end: -2 yards (Pisa)
    run left tackle: 2 yards (Pisa, Ryan)
    run right tackle: 9 yards (Hall, Pisa
    )
    pass short right: 8 yards (Pisa)

    WK3
    pass deep left: incomplete (Pisa on the coverage)

    WK4
    pass short right: 9 yards (Pisa)
    punt coverage: 35 yard return (Pisa on the tackle)
    pass short right: 3 yards (Pisa)
    pass short middle: 6 yards (Pisa)

    punt coverage: 12 yard return (Pisa)
    QB scramble up the middle: 11 yards (Pisa)
    run left tackle: 1 yard (Pisa)
    punt coverage: 6 yard return (Pisa)
    pass short left: 21 yards (Pisa)

    WK5 (Bye)

    WK6
    run right guard: no gain (Pisa)
    punt coverage: 1 yard return (Minor, Pisa)
    run right tackle: 4 yards (Will, Pisa)
    run right end: 5 yards (Pisa)

    pass short middle: 4 yards (Pisa)
    run left end: 3 yards (Pisa, Will)
    run left end: 5 yards (Pisa)
    run right tackle: 2 yards (Pisa, Atogwe)

    pass short right: -4 yards to Pete Kendall, FUMBLE (Pisa)
    pass short left: 4 yards (Pisa, Culberson)

    run left end: 3 yards (Craft, Pisa)
    SACK: -5 yards (Pisa)
    run right tackle: 4 yards (Pisa)

    WK 7
    run left tackle: -1 yard (Pisa)
    run up the middle: 2 yards (Pisa)

    pass short middle: 11 yards (Chavous, Little) FUMBLE [Pisa]
    run left end: 4 yards
    pass short right: 16 yards (Pisa)
    pass short right: no gain (Pisa)

    >run right tackle: 3 yards (Craft)...Pisa injured on the play

    WK 8
    run right guard: 1 yard (Pisa, Glover)
    pass short right: 16 yards (Pisa)
    >pass short left: 30 yards (ran OB)...penalty on Pisa, defensive holding--declined
    run left guard: 4 yards (Pisa, Will)
    pass short middle: 11 yards (Pisa,Will)
    QB scramble up the middle: 4 yards (Pisa, Long)

    WK 9
    pass short right: 18 yards (Pisa)
    run up the middle: 3 yards (Pisa)
    pass short left: 12 yards (Pisa)
    run right end: 18 yards (Pisa)
    run up the middle: 3 yards (Pisa)
    Over the first half of 2008, I came up with these conclusions:
    3.56 yards/carry when he made the tackle
    9.42 yards/pass attempt in his direction
    2 forced fumbles
    1 sack
    2 injuries
    1 incompletion with him in coverage

    Just looking at that, he grades out better than I'd have expected against the run, but he also looks like a real liability in pass coverage. In that list, I count 25 tackles against the run and another 18 after the catch on pass plays.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -04-30-2009 at 10:19 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    that's a big problem in our def. Our front 7 is very undersized and has trouble stopping the run. Pisa is probably our best stopper in terms of running and coverage.

  7. #37
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    Just to make this interesting, I thought I'd go to the play-by-plays on NFL.com and just pull all the plays Pisa was in on for the first half of last season. Here's what I found:



    Over the first half of 2008, I came up with these conclusions:
    3.56 yards/carry when he made the tackle
    9.42 yards/pass attempt in his direction
    2 forced fumbles
    1 sack
    2 injuries
    1 incompletion with him in coverage

    Just looking at that, he grades out better than I'd have expected against the run, but he also looks like a real liability in pass coverage. In that list, I count 25 tackles against the run and another 18 after the catch on pass plays.
    Badly flawed statistics concerning the pass coverage. You don't know if that was his man making the catch or not. You don't know if it was zone coverage. There is no way to tell, he just got credit for the stop ...

  8. #38
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    I guess the question I'd like answered most about Pisa is how good could he have been/already be if the defensive coaching had been consistent in philosophy and competent in correcting his flaws and maximizing his positives as well as all the other factors already discussed?

    Unanswerable, of course, and pointlessly negative because I think the answer is possibly a lot better. Spilled milk but I hope there's time & a chance for that still to happen.

    I'm sure DeSpags thinks Pisa is one of those guys "who can help us win", but to say his contract/cap hit had nothing to do with his not being cut probably isn't true. Something in the $3 mill range,no?

    Why would they cut a productive player who's under contract ? Maybe if we'd snagged a FA MLB or as part of a trade but otherwise you just lose money and create yet another hole.

  9. #39
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Badly flawed statistics concerning the pass coverage. You don't know if that was his man making the catch or not. You don't know if it was zone coverage. There is no way to tell, he just got credit for the stop ...
    No, you don't know if all those were his coverages, but it does show up in the stat line when the guy he was covering fails to catch the ball whether by pass break up or hitting so he drops it. He prevented a catch once in eight games.

  10. #40
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    His always been overrated if you ask me. He has no instincs and a lot of
    time over runs the play resulting in a missed tackle.

  11. #41
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiianpunch View Post
    To add to this impressive resume, Pisa had 42 tackles over three-game span during 2001 season were the most by a Ram over three games tying London Fletcher, and then collected 46 over the same span in 2007, Which is most by any Ram ever.
    Tinoisamoa wasn't with the team in 2001 (he was drafted in 2003), but I would not mind seeing him in our starting lineup this coming season. Not a bit.


  12. #42
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by BEER View Post
    His always been overrated if you ask me. He has no instincs and a lot of
    time over runs the play resulting in a missed tackle.
    So you're telling me that his high rate of tackles for loss is just luck? His instincts never tell him where the runner might be going before they actually go? And yes, he does have a VERY high rate of tackles for loss, amongst the highest in the league last year ...

    And man, with all those plays he overruns, he might have had 200 tackles last year if he didn't suck so bad ...

  13. #43
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by HORNHEAD View Post
    Tinoisamoa wasn't with the team in 2001 (he was drafted in 2003), but I would not mind seeing him in our starting lineup this coming season. Not a bit.

    sorry i messed that one up when i was typing but here it is now copy and pasted from STLR.com

    Pisa had 42 tackles over three-game span during 2007 season were the most by a Ram over three games since London Fletcher collected 46 over the same span in 2001…121 tackles as a rookie in 2003 made him first Rams rookie to lead the team in tackles.
    Last edited by hawaiianpunch; -05-04-2009 at 10:22 PM.

  14. #44
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    So you're telling me that his high rate of tackles for loss is just luck? His instincts never tell him where the runner might be going before they actually go? And yes, he does have a VERY high rate of tackles for loss, amongst the highest in the league last year ...

    And man, with all those plays he overruns, he might have had 200 tackles last year if he didn't suck so bad ...
    heres more to add what my man Rams infiniti is saying.

    Seriously ... people the fact is the stats don't lie. stats are stats. they aren't all luck. so if they are a lie Pisa tripped himself last season totaling 100 tackles. racking up the most on the team. oh yea and dont forget he accidently fell over his left foot to be exact into 3.0 sacks, and 19 stops for lost.

    All the hateraid reasoning that ive heard aren't very well backed up and don't offer much fact behind them; other than he said, she said, i saw once, there was this one time where he missed.

    the amount you discredit Pisa for no reason is baffling.

  15. #45
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    Re: The under-rated linebacker Named Pisa

    yea thats what i like to hear!

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