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  1. #16
    laram0's Avatar
    laram0 is offline Superbowl MVP
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    It tells me that our RAMS are going to continue rebuilding through the draft.
    We don't need any over priced primadonnas on our team, yet.

    Does it also tell us that Spags feels safe in his job? I mean it's obvious that we need wr help and we need to start winning some games.


  2. #17
    BEER's Avatar
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    It tells me that our RAMS are going to continue rebuilding through the draft.
    We don't need any over priced primadonnas on our team, yet.

    Does it also tell us that Spags feels safe in his job? I mean it's obvious that we need wr help and we need to start winning some games.
    Building through the draft means u got to know how to draft. Got a Question for you. What would any team give us for our prevues last two very high 1rst round pics???? Long and Smith.
    Last edited by BEER; -09-22-2010 at 07:13 PM.

  3. #18
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    I don't know what the Chargers were asking, but I assume the Rams were willing to give up a 2nd round pick. If the Chargers were asking for a 1st round pick, then I can understand.

    Also, there is a tendency to get to conservative among members of this forum and the members of the front office. If the Rams weren't so damned conservative, we could have got Micheal Vick. He would work really well within our offense and he would have wanted to come here. So many people were saying Vick didn't have it anymore, but that was dead wrong, wasn't it?

    The point is that there are calculated risks, and I think VJ was a good one. If VJ didn't have the off-field problems, he wouldn't be available to us anyway. He off-field problems were not that severe as to make him high risk, IMO. He has awesome talent and if we could have locked up a long-term deal with him, that would have been ideal.

  4. #19
    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BEER View Post
    If you followed the Chargers for sometime youd know what im talking about. If he sits out all year the Fans and the Chargers get a Big ZERO in comp. Now thats out of spite. We will be in the mix, or should anyways next year for V Js services.
    I think if you thought it through a little more, you wouldn't be so down on the SD FO for this even as a Charger fan. They have effectively replaced him on the field so far so there's no loss there. He is roster exempt so there's no spot wasted there. He has to sign his much-reduced tender before the end of the season-I forget exactly when but I think you have to be active for 6 games to accrue the season- and I believe they will only have to pay him the pro-rated amount because he wasn't signed at the start.He's a FA, anyway, after this year & apparently the chances are slim that he will get a fat career deal out of SD after all this brouhaha. If he decides to dog it when he signs or to hold out altogether, he doesn't do his already tarnished rep any good when looking for a new job or they pay him nothing.

    That's probably why SD didn't take a single pick deal for him; I'm assuming that's the source of your frustration/anger with SD, since he could help their run to the playoffs as genuine SB contenders. And, as you yourself admit, their GM drafts well and has done for years so an extra pick next year isn't as valuable as a good young vet WR this year. Kinda the same argument the pro-VJ camp has been using here except from another point of view.

    The really telling thing here,imo, is that SD didn't get creative with a deal to circumvent the CBA issue like Demoff did with OJ. Either SD didn't think they'd ever come together on the money or they didn't like him enough for one reason or another to make it happen.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -09-22-2010 at 07:21 PM.

  5. #20
    BEER's Avatar
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    I think if you thought it through a little more, you wouldn't be so down on the SD FO for this even as a Charger fan. They have effectively replaced him on the field so far so there's no loss there. He is roster exempt so there's no spot wasted there. He has to sign his much-reduced tender before the end of the season-I forget exactly when but I think you have to be active for 6 games to accrue the season- and I believe they will only have to pay him the pro-rated amount because he wasn't signed at the start.He's a FA, anyway, after this year & apparently the chances are slim that he will get a fat career deal out of SD after all this brouhaha. If he decides to dog it when he signs or to hold out altogether, he doesn't do his already tarnished rep any good when looking for a new job and they pay him nothing.

    That's probably why SD didn't take a single pick deal for him; I'm assuming that's the source of your frustration/anger with SD, since he could help their run to the playoffs as genuine SB contenders. And, as you yourself admit, their GM drafts well and has done for years so an extra pick next year isn't as valuable as a good young vet WR this year. Kinda the same argument the pro-VJ camp has been using here except from another point of view.

    The really telling thing here,imo, is that SD didn't get creative with a deal to circumvent the CBA issue like Demoff did with OJ. Either SD didn't think they'd ever come together on the money or they didn't like him enough for one reason or another to make it happen.
    When the playoffs come and the Chargers loss to the Jets again, you will then get my point. You do what it takes to win a superbowl for your fans. Not for what it does for your own ego. That go's for player and OWNERS GMS VP'S
    Last edited by BEER; -09-22-2010 at 07:26 PM.

  6. #21
    DPskywalker is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Ram View Post
    I don't know what they wanted for compensation, but i do know that if v-jax started the season as a ram and played in our first two games the rams are 2-0 and number 1 in the NFC west

    YEP! Nail on the head.

    The problem is AJ Smith. He just wouldn't budge, even the slightest.

    While I am upset that we didn't get him, I'd be more upset if I were a Chargers fan. The buy price just went down, big time, and he will not be playing a game for SD this year.

    What a disaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by BEER View Post
    Building through the draft means u got to know how to draft. Got a Question for you. What would any team give us for our prevues last two very high 1rst round pics???? Long and Smith.

    That's an interesting question!

    I think for Jason Smith, we'd be lucky to get a 2nd rounder. In all likelihood, a 3rd.

    Chris Long is a different deal. I bet we could get a 1st for him. Not the 2nd overall pick, that's for sure, but 1st.

    The moral of the story here is people overvalue draft picks, big time.

    BTW, go look at Kiper's Big Board. Next year's draft is going to be terrible. Everyone jumped ship to be in this last draft because of the restructuring of the rookie salary cap this coming offseason.
    Last edited by Nick; -09-22-2010 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Merging back to back posts

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPskywalker View Post
    YEP! Nail on the head.

    The problem is AJ Smith. He just wouldn't budge, even the slightest.

    While I am upset that we didn't get him, I'd be more upset if I were a Chargers fan. The buy price just went down, big time, and he will not be playing a game for SD this year.

    What a disaster.
    Check this out. Went to the Charger home opener with the Charger fan.
    150 ticket. 50 people lines for porta poties at tailgate. Inside 9 dollars a beer and 6 dollars for a 20 cent plastic bottle of water, ow and 25 dollars to park. Is it that much at the Rams home games?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPskywalker View Post
    That's an interesting question!

    I think for Jason Smith, we'd be lucky to get a 2nd rounder. In all likelihood, a 3rd.

    Chris Long is a different deal. I bet we could get a 1st for him. Not the 2nd overall pick, that's for sure, but 1st.

    The moral of the story here is people overvalue draft picks, big time.

    BTW, go look at Kiper's Big Board. Next year's draft is going to be terrible. Everyone jumped ship to be in this last draft because of the restructuring of the rookie salary cap this coming offseason.
    Sounds about right. I still say less for long. At his pick in the draft you got to do more than stop the run.
    Last edited by Nick; -09-22-2010 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Merging back to back posts

  8. #23
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BEER View Post
    When the playoffs come and the Chargers loss to the Jets again, you will then get my point. You do what it takes to win a superbowl for your fans. Not for what it does for your own ego. That go's for player and OWNERS GMS VP'S
    Wrong. You do not let yourself get pushed around by every player who thinks he owns the team and can demand anything he wants whenever he wants and the team will bend to that will in the hopes that they are the one of 32 teams to win it that year. Players are employees, not owners, and you cannot let a player control your franchise. Jackson wants to play hardball? Fine, but no crying when the Chargers play hardball right back. He can just lose a year of his career and a lot of money if that is how he wants to play it.

    You let one players wrest control of your team and tell you how to run your team, and you open the door to future problems. It is not a good precedent to set, and I personally applaud the Chargers for not letting a player, who has not accrued enough seasons yet to control where he gets to play, control where he gets to play. Sure that is mainly because of the CBA expiring, but the union negotiated the CBA and defined Jackson's rights, and by joining the union he gave them the exclusive right to negotiate for and define the rights by which he is bound. He can go screw off if he thinks he gets to circumvent those rules.

  9. #24
    DPskywalker is offline Registered User
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    Wrong. You do not let yourself get pushed around by every player who thinks he owns the team and can demand anything he wants whenever he wants and the team will bend to that will in the hopes that they are the one of 32 teams to win it that year. Players are employees, not owners, and you cannot let a player control your franchise. Jackson wants to play hardball? Fine, but no crying when the Chargers play hardball right back. He can just lose a year of his career and a lot of money if that is how he wants to play it.

    You let one players wrest control of your team and tell you how to run your team, and you open the door to future problems. It is not a good precedent to set, and I personally applaud the Chargers for not letting a player, who has not accrued enough seasons yet to control where he gets to play, control where he gets to play. Sure that is mainly because of the CBA expiring, but the union negotiated the CBA and defined Jackson's rights, and by joining the union he gave them the exclusive right to negotiate for and define the rights by which he is bound. He can go screw off if he thinks he gets to circumvent those rules.
    Berg, your points are valid, but at the end of the day, your team got worse. Your first obligation is always to the fans, and the Charger fans are the big losers today. I live near SD...most of my friends are Bolts fans are they are not happy.

    Fair or not, it was a 2nd and a conditional 4 hours ago. Now it's possibly a 3rd.

    From the consumer's perspective, that's the bottom line.

  10. #25
    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BEER View Post
    When the playoffs come and the Chargers loss to the Jets again, you will then get my point. You do what it takes to win a superbowl for your fans. Not for what it does for your own ego. That go's for player and OWNERS GMS VP'S
    I think most SD fans would be more concerned about their run O & D and a reliable FG kicker if they want to beat The Jets. VJ had a 100 yd day last year & they still lost.

    And whose ego caused this? The multiple DUI guy who gambled & lost that the team valued or should have valued him more than they did or could afford to risk with the CBA uncertainty( just because there's no cap doesn't mean NFL teams aren't still for-profit businesses & allocation of resources is key to longterm success,no?) or the GM who kept his eye on the big picture for his team and fans by not wasting resources on an expendable guy that they'll get bargain-priced juice out of, anyway, when they'll need it most.

    And who's to say SD won't trade him later & probably still get a single high pick for him ? He's a free insurance policy until then. It's like having a Pro Bowler on your practice Squad that no one can snatch.

    No, until SD's pass O suffers, claiming that SD hurt their team in any way out of spite is a tough sell for me.I think the team that they built over the years did just as much for VJ as vice versa & he hurt them more with his behavior than they did by playing it this way, imo.

  11. #26
    BEER's Avatar
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    Wrong. You do not let yourself get pushed around by every player who thinks he owns the team and can demand anything he wants whenever he wants and the team will bend to that will in the hopes that they are the one of 32 teams to win it that year. Players are employees, not owners, and you cannot let a player control your franchise. Jackson wants to play hardball? Fine, but no crying when the Chargers play hardball right back. He can just lose a year of his career and a lot of money if that is how he wants to play it.

    You let one players wrest control of your team and tell you how to run your team, and you open the door to future problems. It is not a good precedent to set, and I personally applaud the Chargers for not letting a player, who has not accrued enough seasons yet to control where he gets to play, control where he gets to play. Sure that is mainly because of the CBA expiring, but the union negotiated the CBA and defined Jackson's rights, and by joining the union he gave them the exclusive right to negotiate for and define the rights by which he is bound. He can go screw off if he thinks he gets to circumvent those rules.
    What did Aj do for fans, the team, the leage? Nothing........ Charger fans wont get even a 6th round pic. Nothing...... What do other teams get trying to give him a chance. Nothing........ Its all bad.

  12. #27
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BEER View Post
    What did Aj do for fans, the team, the leage? Nothing........ Charger fans wont get even a 6th round pic. Nothing...... What do other teams get trying to give him a chance. Nothing........ Its all bad.
    Getting something for a player is not always more important than winning these battles. If you let one player dictate his pay and where he plays, they all will, and you will find yourself in a much worse situation than not having an extra couple of picks.

  13. #28
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    Re: We didn't trade for VJ, nor did any other team. What does that tell you?

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    Getting something for a player is not always more important than winning these battles. If you let one player dictate his pay and where he plays, they all will, and you will find yourself in a much worse situation than not having an extra couple of picks.
    i don't know, that sounds pretty foolish to me.

    either way, they'll get a compensatory pick if/when he leaves next year, i think a 3rd rounder, so they won't be left entirely empty-handed.

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