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  1. #31
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    This is the fact.

    Pretend we get offered a first round pick and a third round pick for Steven Jackson.

    And, say, we take that deal.

    What do we have now?

    Our elite-caliber RB is gone, which leaves ANOTHER hole in our damn poor offense.

    So, we basically have to use the first round pick we got from the deal to get ANOTHER RB (most likely not as good) to REPLACE Jackson.

    Then, we end up with only an extra 3rd round pick.

    IMO, this is crap. No trading Steven Jackson.

    End of discussion.
    Blah, blah, blah....Trade Jackson, draft Suh #1, try to land Dez Bryant or another WR with #1 potential with the 2nd 1st rounder. Go after Ryan Mathews round 2 or another RB who is there. BTW, I feel you really need to understand that RB position in the NFL, and how much of a throw away it really is. [NO LINKS!] Add in a trade for Troy Smith and suddenly I feel like the Rams have most of the rebuilding pieces in place...plus the team is young at EVERY position, and won't have to soon worry about Jackson hitting the 30 yr old running back wall.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -01-05-2010 at 01:41 PM.


  2. #32
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    Blah, blah, blah....Trade Jackson, draft Suh #1, try to land Dez Bryant or another WR with #1 potential with the 2nd 1st rounder. Go after Ryan Mathews round 2 or another RB who is there. BTW, I feel you really need to understand that RB position in the NFL, and how much of a throw away it really is. Ourlads.com - Sudden Impact Add in a trade for Troy Smith and suddenly I feel like the Rams have most of the rebuilding pieces in place...plus the team is young at EVERY position, and won't have to soon worry about Jackson hitting the 30 yr old running back wall.

    I think you have been playing Madden too much.

    Trade Jackson to who? Can you name a team that will seriously trade their first round pick for Steven Jackson? If the RB position in the NFL really is a throw away position, then why would any team be wanting to trade their first rounder for Jackson when they could draft one of those guys you listed in the second round? And would you seriously only accept one first round pick for the guy that led the NFC in rushing despite missing one game and being injured for the last 4-5 of the season?

    Even if we do trade Jackson for a first rounder, i wouldnt use it on a WR. We still wouldnt have anyone to throw to them.

    You want to trade for Troy Smith? A guy who cant beat out Joe Flacco in Baltimore? What makes you think Smith is the answer at QB? And what would we have to trade to get Smith?

  3. #33
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    Blah, blah, blah....Trade Jackson, draft Suh #1, try to land Dez Bryant or another WR with #1 potential with the 2nd 1st rounder. Go after Ryan Mathews round 2 or another RB who is there. BTW, I feel you really need to understand that RB position in the NFL, and how much of a throw away it really is. Ourlads.com - Sudden Impact Add in a trade for Troy Smith and suddenly I feel like the Rams have most of the rebuilding pieces in place...plus the team is young at EVERY position, and won't have to soon worry about Jackson hitting the 30 yr old running back wall.
    If we trade Jackson for Bryant, we don't add a dimension. We have the same number of dimensions, because our running game is a severely diminished threat. Teams will simply double cover or worse on Bryant, and guess what, our offense won't be productive.

  4. #34
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    I think you have been playing Madden too much.

    Trade Jackson to who? Can you name a team that will seriously trade their first round pick for Steven Jackson? If the RB position in the NFL really is a throw away position, then why would any team be wanting to trade their first rounder for Jackson when they could draft one of those guys you listed in the second round? And would you seriously only accept one first round pick for the guy that led the NFC in rushing despite missing one game and being injured for the last 4-5 of the season?

    Even if we do trade Jackson for a first rounder, i wouldnt use it on a WR. We still wouldnt have anyone to throw to them.

    You want to trade for Troy Smith? A guy who cant beat out Joe Flacco in Baltimore? What makes you think Smith is the answer at QB? And what would we have to trade to get Smith?
    Ur funny. I'ved played Madden maybe 5-6x TOTAL since '05. After reading this reply I decided to go over a friends house to play it. You know what happened, I beat Dallas despite our horrible WR's. Truth be told, I'm more of a Gran Turismo guy myself, but I only might play a video game one night out of 4 months.

    RB is the one position where roookies come and make an immedate impact from week 1. The thing though is, a player like Jackson doesn't come around too often with his size and above that....he is proven. GM's like that. With rookies there is unknown. Look at AP, he was the best player in the draft, and every scout knew it, but he had injury issues. There is no "if" about the RB position being a throw away position, its fact. There is always someone that can "get the job done" and sometimes that player can even do it player. That's what Chester Taylor found out when AP came to town. A good example right now would be Oakland. If Al Davis wants to protect Russell, Stephen Jackson would be the PERFECT fit for the type of player to be brought in and help out his young QB.

    As for not having anyone to throw the ball. You have to get the WR FIRST. Look at Peyton Manning when he entered the league, he already had Harrison on his team. When Culpepper came to Minn they had both Cris Carter and Randy Moss. Even when Jay Cutler was brought in with Brandon Marshall they still did have proven Rod Smith on the team. When Ben Roethlesberger was brought in...guess what Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress were already in place. The guys that the Rams have right now at WR I don't think ANY of them have the potential to be a #1 WR on ANY team.

    As for Troy Smith...he was the starter going into the '08 season before he got ill. Flacco just caught a lucky break. After they went to the playoffs with rookie QB Flacco you think Balt fans wouldn't uproar to then go back to Smith. Come on. I'm not saying for sure Smith is the long term answer. But I do expect him to be atleast a stop gap for the next season or two. He has talent and potential, he needs a chance though. We'd simply give up a mid-late round pick for him...and he'd be a better than any QB we draft with that pick IMO.

  5. #35
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    If we trade Jackson for Bryant, we don't add a dimension. We have the same number of dimensions, because our running game is a severely diminished threat. Teams will simply double cover or worse on Bryant, and guess what, our offense won't be productive.
    IMO, there comes a point where management must ask itself what is the long term goal. The answer in the NFL should be to win a championship...that's why Peyton Manning got removed from game 15. The fact that he already had a super bowl ring, so the quest for perfection should be allowed is another debate. There comes a point in players careers where their value is at the highest it will be at, before it comes tumbling down. That said, I believe this is the point in S. Jacksons career. Granted, he still does have a a few good years ahead of him...but where will that get the Rams? Maybe back into playoff contention, then what? Looking for another RB to replace him? We need to add a dynamic #1, then that will greatly help Avery to see more single coverage. And like I said, bring in a young RB like Mathews who was even whispered in Heisman talks and we maintain a team that teams will still have to respect the run. The fact is this...its harder to find a true #1 WR outside the first round of the draft than it is to find a starting RB in a the 2nd or 3rd round. Just to be safe, If wouldn't mind the rams taking yet another running back in the third round either just to cover their bases. The question remains though...what are we playing for, and will this player be on the team to see us through? Like I said my answer is no, but trading him does give us the potential to not take a step ahead, but leap ahead of where we would otherwise be. If the rams management aren't even considering this fact, then the F.O. is in worse shape than many of you realize IMO.

  6. #36
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    If Al Davis wants to protect Russell, Stephen Jackson would be the PERFECT fit for the type of player to be brought in and help out his young QB.
    Why would Al Davis sign an NBA basketball player to play running back.

    Scratch that, it's Al Davis.

    Last edited by ramsbruce; -01-05-2010 at 03:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Some of the excuses made for Jared Cook are laughable.

  7. #37
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    Ur funny. I'ved played Madden maybe 5-6x TOTAL since '05. After reading this reply I decided to go over a friends house to play it. You know what happened, I beat Dallas despite our horrible WR's. Truth be told, I'm more of a Gran Turismo guy myself, but I only might play a video game one night out of 4 months.

    RB is the one position where roookies come and make an immedate impact from week 1. The thing though is, a player like Jackson doesn't come around too often with his size and above that....he is proven. GM's like that. With rookies there is unknown. Look at AP, he was the best player in the draft, and every scout knew it, but he had injury issues. There is no "if" about the RB position being a throw away position, its fact. There is always someone that can "get the job done" and sometimes that player can even do it player. That's what Chester Taylor found out when AP came to town. A good example right now would be Oakland. If Al Davis wants to protect Russell, Stephen Jackson would be the PERFECT fit for the type of player to be brought in and help out his young QB.

    As for not having anyone to throw the ball. You have to get the WR FIRST. Look at Peyton Manning when he entered the league, he already had Harrison on his team. When Culpepper came to Minn they had both Cris Carter and Randy Moss. Even when Jay Cutler was brought in with Brandon Marshall they still did have proven Rod Smith on the team. When Ben Roethlesberger was brought in...guess what Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress were already in place. The guys that the Rams have right now at WR I don't think ANY of them have the potential to be a #1 WR on ANY team.

    As for Troy Smith...he was the starter going into the '08 season before he got ill. Flacco just caught a lucky break. After they went to the playoffs with rookie QB Flacco you think Balt fans wouldn't uproar to then go back to Smith. Come on. I'm not saying for sure Smith is the long term answer. But I do expect him to be atleast a stop gap for the next season or two. He has talent and potential, he needs a chance though. We'd simply give up a mid-late round pick for him...and he'd be a better than any QB we draft with that pick IMO.
    2008 Running Back Class (Consider best class ever)
    Chris Johnson
    Matt Forte
    Steve Slaton
    Darren McFadden
    Jonathan Stewart
    Ray Rice
    Felix Jones
    Rashard Medenhall
    Tim Hightower

    2009 Running Back Class
    Knowshon Moreno
    Chis Wells
    Shonn Green
    LeSean McCoy
    Donald Brown
    Bernard Scott
    James Davis

    ALOT of hit and miss especially if you consider this year and last year for Slaton and Forte.

    When you made the list of QB's and the establish Wide Recievers I believe you forgot to mention the quality Running backs on those teams.

    P. Manning - The Edge
    Culpepper - Robert Smith
    Cutler - Henry (?? Team went 8-8 and is still looking for that RB)
    Big Ben - The Bus/Fast Willie

  8. #38
    LongBlood's Avatar
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    2008 Running Back Class (Consider best class ever)
    Chris Johnson
    Matt Forte
    Steve Slaton
    Darren McFadden
    Jonathan Stewart
    Ray Rice
    Felix Jones
    Rashard Medenhall
    Tim Hightower

    2009 Running Back Class
    Knowshon Moreno
    Chis Wells
    Shonn Green
    LeSean McCoy
    Donald Brown
    Bernard Scott
    James Davis

    ALOT of hit and miss especially if you consider this year and last year for Slaton and Forte.

    When you made the list of QB's and the establish Wide Recievers I believe you forgot to mention the quality Running backs on those teams.

    P. Manning - The Edge
    Culpepper - Robert Smith
    Cutler - Henry (?? Team went 8-8 and is still looking for that RB)
    Big Ben - The Bus/Fast Willie
    That's the nature of RB, that's why I wouldn't mind the rams drafting 2 should we trade Jackson.

    Manning didn't have Edge until a year after he was drafted btw. He had Faulk when he was brought in. Culpepper had Smith for just 2 seasons. Henry showed up a year later for Cutler looks like Tatum Bell was the RB when he took the reigns. The bus was on his last legs when Big Ben was brought in and Willie Parker was an undrafted free agent when he wents to Pitt that year.

  9. #39
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    That's the nature of RB, that's why I wouldn't mind the rams drafting 2 should we trade Jackson.
    We will just have to agree to disagree on this.

    We have a lot of holes. You want to create a new hole to get more picks but then use two of them to try to fill the hole we didn't have. Leaving holes we had unfilled.

    I respect your opinion but this just doesn't make any sense to me.

  10. #40
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post

    RB is the one position where roookies come and make an immedate impact from week 1. The thing though is, a player like Jackson doesn't come around too often with his size and above that....he is proven. GM's like that. With rookies there is unknown. Look at AP, he was the best player in the draft, and every scout knew it, but he had injury issues. There is no "if" about the RB position being a throw away position, its fact. There is always someone that can "get the job done" and sometimes that player can even do it player. That's what Chester Taylor found out when AP came to town. A good example right now would be Oakland. If Al Davis wants to protect Russell, Stephen Jackson would be the PERFECT fit for the type of player to be brought in and help out his young QB.


    Well, if it's indeed fact like you say, then surely GMs and team owners would know this as you already do. So why in their right minds would they trade for Jackson, when they can figuratively pick ANYONE and that one player would do the job just fine? They would get to keep their first round pick, and spend say, their seventh round pick on an automatically serviceable running back. It's a throw away position as you said.

    As for the Raiders, they can't seem to pick a player out of Justin Fargas, Michael Bush, or Darren McFadden, so why would they want to throw Steven Jackson into the mix? JaMarcus Russell doesn't need protection, he's a big boy. He needs to stop eating skittles on the sidelines.


    The point I don't understand with your argument, is that you state that Jackson is proven, and better than most in the league. You also go on to state that rookies are unknowns, and later on in a different post suggest drafting two rookie RBs to replace a traded Steven Jackson. If GMs like proven players like you said, then why would our organization be any different? Why would we throw away our best player for unknowns, spending the very picks we would receive on risky draft picks?

  11. #41
    LongBlood's Avatar
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shower beers View Post
    The point I don't understand with your argument, is that you state that Jackson is proven, and better than most in the league. You also go on to state that rookies are unknowns, and later on in a different post suggest drafting two rookie RBs to replace a traded Steven Jackson. If GMs like proven players like you said, then why would our organization be any different? Why would we throw away our best player for unknowns, spending the very picks we would receive on risky draft picks?
    I said that, because he is a pro-bowl caliber player when he plays the full season. Let's not forget he has also struggled with injuries in the past. The reason why I would take 2 RB's is because I have also said in a previous post I would prefer is the Rams went to more of a 2 back system. Plus it would also help with inevitable injuries. Diversify the Rams portfolio a bit if you will instead of keeping buying stock in Jackson. All this is moot IMO anyway. I still feel WR is the most glaring need on this team, and I have said before if you guys want Suh #1, this is the best course of action IMO. If we instead trade down and take a WR with #1 potential, then by all means keep Jackson.

  12. #42
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LongBlood View Post
    IMO, there comes a point where management must ask itself what is the long term goal. The answer in the NFL should be to win a championship...that's why Peyton Manning got removed from game 15. The fact that he already had a super bowl ring, so the quest for perfection should be allowed is another debate. There comes a point in players careers where their value is at the highest it will be at, before it comes tumbling down. That said, I believe this is the point in S. Jacksons career. Granted, he still does have a a few good years ahead of him...but where will that get the Rams? Maybe back into playoff contention, then what? Looking for another RB to replace him? We need to add a dynamic #1, then that will greatly help Avery to see more single coverage. And like I said, bring in a young RB like Mathews who was even whispered in Heisman talks and we maintain a team that teams will still have to respect the run. The fact is this...its harder to find a true #1 WR outside the first round of the draft than it is to find a starting RB in a the 2nd or 3rd round. Just to be safe, If wouldn't mind the rams taking yet another running back in the third round either just to cover their bases. The question remains though...what are we playing for, and will this player be on the team to see us through? Like I said my answer is no, but trading him does give us the potential to not take a step ahead, but leap ahead of where we would otherwise be. If the rams management aren't even considering this fact, then the F.O. is in worse shape than many of you realize IMO.
    So um....riddle me this. Why is it that Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl ring? Why is it that wideouts seem to be ancillary features of most Super Bowl winners, compared to running backs and/or defense?

    I think you overrate the value of a "#1 reciever" in constructing a champion.

  13. #43
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Two reasons Jackson doesn't get traded.

    1. This organization feels they someone tho keep the fans in the stands.

    2. Unless you're trading him from multiple picks, it's not worth it

    It would be easier to sign free agents to turn this team around than to rebuild and take chances on draft picks like you suggest.

    with a decent qb, a true 1 reciever and a pass rush DE, and runnstopping NT, that would put us in the right direction.

    Don't let your anger crowd your judgement, and I don't think anyone on this site is drinking what you suggest they are, we know what type of team this is.

  14. #44
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    I think you have been playing Madden too much.

    Trade Jackson to who? Can you name a team that will seriously trade their first round pick for Steven Jackson? If the RB position in the NFL really is a throw away position, then why would any team be wanting to trade their first rounder for Jackson when they could draft one of those guys you listed in the second round? And would you seriously only accept one first round pick for the guy that led the NFC in rushing despite missing one game and being injured for the last 4-5 of the season?

    Even if we do trade Jackson for a first rounder, i wouldnt use it on a WR. We still wouldnt have anyone to throw to them.

    You want to trade for Troy Smith? A guy who cant beat out Joe Flacco in Baltimore? What makes you think Smith is the answer at QB? And what would we have to trade to get Smith?
    Just because Joey Flacco is the number one in Baltimore doesn't mean he's the best. Ask Terry Bradshaw, and he'll tell you the Black QB he started infront of was way better than him. No this is not a black white thing, this is just to say there are political reasons why a team sometimes chooses one QB over another, want another one ask Kurt Warner.

  15. #45
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    Re: We need talent!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
    Just because Joey Flacco is the number one in Baltimore doesn't mean he's the best. Ask Terry Bradshaw, and he'll tell you the Black QB he started infront of was way better than him. No this is not a black white thing, this is just to say there are political reasons why a team sometimes chooses one QB over another, want another one ask Kurt Warner.
    If this is true, can you tell me why the Ravens would play Flacco ahead of Troy Smith? If Smith is better than Flacco, surely he would be leading the team? If i remember correctly, Troy Smith couldnt even beat out Kyle Boller.

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