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  1. #1
    Nick's Avatar
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    What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    In an attempt to examine the ***** potential as a running team in 2009, Press Democrat ***** blogger Matt Maiocco examined running figures from Elias Sports Bureau, the NFL's official statisticians.

    He collected stats for how many plays were run off left and right end, left and right tackle, left and right guard, and up the middle. He used these figures to examine the strengths and weaknesses of the ***** offensive front and where improvements may need to be made for new head coach Mike Singletary to implement his power running offense.

    When listing the numbers he acquired from Elias, Maiocco listed how many plays the ***** ran to a specific side, the number of yards their gained on average running to that side, and where that ranked them in the NFL. He then listed the NFL's best and worst team for each area.

    Citing Elias Sports Bureau's figures, Maiocco listed the Rams as the NFL's least effective team running off left end & right guard in 2008.

    Right guard? I thought one of Richie Incognito's strengths was his ability to open up holes in the running game? Yet the Rams finish dead last in the league running behind him? So not only is he the most penalized offensive lineman on the Rams, not only is he second on the team in sacks allowed with 6.5 on the season, but the Rams are last in the league when running off of right guard behind him?

    And left end? That suggests we need to reevaluate our personnel at tight end and fullback (no kidding huh?) and their ability to get to the edge in stretch or sweep plays, but doesn't the right guard also pull and block on the left side at times as well? Yet again, our numbers at left end are the worst in the league.

    Combine that with the Post Dispatch report that Incognito opted out of the Rams season finale because of illness only to have a candy bar swatted out of his hand by Jim Haslett on the sideline, and I'm really at a loss for what this guy brings to the table for this team in the future that's so valuable that he needs to be retained.

    Incognito supporters will point to a quote from Jim Haslett that was made back when Richie was in trouble for fan criticism, where Jim called Richie our best lineman. When asked about the running game, Steven Jackson recently commented that the Rams "need Richie Incognito plus three; we need those big-time guys who are going to plow some things open."

    But again, the numbers tell a different story. He's our most penalized lineman, has allowed the second most sacks on this team, and we rank dead last in the league when rushing behind our RG. So what am I missing here? What is Incognito doing so well that not only cancels out these negative figures but makes him one of our top linemen?

    Should Richie Incognito be brought back in 2009? Or should the Rams move on with Jacob Bell, Mark Setterstrom, John Greco, Roy Schuening, and swing-man Adam Goldberg at guard instead?


  2. #2
    BIG-BLUE's Avatar
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    No, Ritchie needs to get his head straight & until he sees the bigger picture & matures on the field the Rams simply don't need him.
    I would love for the Rams to draft a stud OT & experiment with moving Barron inside where maybe he can handle the snap count and cut down on the false starts. Barron has been one of our healthiest linemen for a couple of years & would much prefer to work with him and his problems over Incognito and his.
    A line with Pace, Bell, Romberg/Setterstrom/, Barron/Greco, Smith. Throw in maybe a rookie center or FA and the OL looks a lot better. Just having Romberg & Greco in there made the line a lot more cohesive. So as far as Ritchie goes, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

  3. #3
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    I'm torn. I think that, despite those stats, there is some talent/potential there. That said, I wouldn't argue with anyone who states that his attitude/conduct outweigh his benefits right now.

    Remind me... is he a UFA, RFA or does he have one more year left on his contract?

  4. #4
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Remind me... is he a UFA, RFA or does he have one more year left on his contract?
    he`s a RFA..

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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    I don't really think you're missing anything, Nick. While I'll agree and stand by the statements from Haslett and Jax and Holt saying that he's a good teammate, I'll put an asterisk beside them that reads "WHEN HEAD SCREWED ON JUUUSSSSST RIGHT", which as we all know, is a very iffy situation, and is never stable.

    Blue, you're very much right and I've been a Barron supporter. I would very much work with him at getting him to follow the snap count better rather than try to get Cogs into the right frame of mind. In the locker room he could be great(or not, depending on his "stomach"), but on the field he's a mercenary. He's reckless. Let some other team try to rehabilitate him.

    Meanwhile, yes, I would very much like to keep working on Barron, because one, he can play the left side if we need him to, two, he's one of our few offensive players that HASN'T had injury issues, and three, once the play starts, he's actually a fairly good lineman. He just needs to start the play on time every time. I didn't follow his penalties this year, how did he do?

  6. #6
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    A real fullback would really , really , really (that's 3 reallys) help our ground game...

    plus SJAX WILL BE AT CAMP EARLY NEXT YEAR

  7. #7
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblin` Ram View Post
    he`s a RFA..
    If that's the case, I'd tender him at a level that would give the Rams a 3rd rounder if he's signed by another team.

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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    It would be interesting to know how Elias or anyone outside a team's offensive coaching staff could grade an O-lineman's performance without knowing his specific assignment on any play. And since blocking schemes are about as team-dependent as you can get in football, do these stats take into account what his teammates did or didn't do? Did Cogs give up those sacks in isolation? We all know that Leckey was sketchy much of the time. Ditto the RBs & TEs.

    A QB still gets an incompletion in his stats regardless of whether the receiver did their job or not.Maybe if we saw all NFL guard stats for a comparison, we'd have a better idea of what Cogs' stats mean. How many sacks did the best guards give up? Who were they playing next to & how well did those teammates do their jobs? Who was the RB, the FB,etc, on running plays? Did the sacks occur on blitzes? Etc,etc

    I don't think Incognito played well,either, but it's the fact that the coaches couldn't get his attitude to work for him/the team that bothers me more than anything. I'm also willing to consider that he was coming back from a knee injury that required him to wear a heavy metal brace all year.

    All that having been said, I wouldn't weep to see him go bye-bye. With Setterstrom(hopefully), Greco and Schuening in the mix next year, I think we have better options than moving Barron to a position for which he is ill-suited by conventional standards-too tall and not explosive/aggressive-natured enough, .
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -01-05-2009 at 02:41 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    How could Haslett and Jackson be so wrong?

    Do the stats really mean anything?

    Bizarre........

  10. #10
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    Love the candybar thing. I wonder what kind it was. A Goo Goo perhaps? What about the soft drink? Diet Pepsi? Manoman, my hero.
    I'm the guy that walks up after the argument's started.

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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    As many of ya'll know I've been a big Richie supporter for awhile now, but this report about Haz slapping a candy bar out of his hand really has me concerned. I don't like what this incident appears to convey. Maybe (hopefully?) Haz was just in a pissy mood or whatever but Cog may have contributed to this with a lax or reckless attitude. I still believe that Cogs has the requisite talent level to motivate the Rams to continue to work with him. However, Richie needs to realize that the leash as well as further opportunities to remain a Ram, is getting shorter.

    I say tender him an offer that gets him to training camp next year. And then we'll let the HC (Jim Haslett: please refer to impending new thread) deal with him how he sees fit.

    WHAT SAY YE?

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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    Well Nick I have to agree with you when it comes to Ritchie, but dont forget that Barron has been nothing spectacular, How many flase starts has this guy accounted for, I saw tender Ritchie and get rid of Barron once and for all.

  13. #13
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    Nick, you know I love the numbers. But I have to agree with Azul on this one. What do the numbers really tell us in this situation? All I know is what I see when I watch the games. And yes, I understand that is a useless qualitative statement that bears no meaning. But anyway, I saw a guard getting a consistent push when others didn't; a guard that got to the 2nd level; and a guard that got to the block on time when he pulled.

    But it's all moot.

    If Cogs did in fact fake an illness in week 17, that'd be hard to overlook. It's simply not acceptable. If Bell is back on track, if Greco can repeat his performance from week 17, if Goldberg remains consistent........then let's move on w/o him.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #14
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    I say the guy is a head case and will get bounced by a new HC that wants dedicated, serious players on this team. If it's Russ Grimm, sayonara Richie. We are probably better off working with Barron than trying to rehab this guy.

    The stats bear out a few things but one that constantly irks me is that we cut Madson Hedgecock in 2007. Ask the Giants running backs if they aren't glad he's there for them?

    Go Rams!

  15. #15
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: What am I missing about Richie Incognito?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    It would be interesting to know how Elias or anyone outside a team's offensive coaching staff could grade an O-lineman's performance without knowing his specific assignment on any play.
    It would be interesting to know how they go about gathering their figures. But do you say that as a suggestion that perhaps their numbers aren't accurate?

    Because I would imagine that companies such as Elias or Stats Inc probably don't reach the level they're at if they aren't as accurate as possible. If the methods that these companies used to accumulate their stats was off or incorrect in some manner, I doubt they'd be as widely regarded.

    And I would probably agree with you that the sideline incident may be the most concerning thing of all, especially if Haslett ends up staying here.

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    All I know is what I see when I watch the games. And yes, I understand that is a useless qualitative statement that bears no meaning. But anyway, I saw a guard getting a consistent push when others didn't; a guard that got to the 2nd level; and a guard that got to the block on time when he pulled.
    But I guess my response would be, if he's doing all the things you're describing, doesn't that have to be reflected in the numbers at some point? Again, while I agree that stats don't tell the whole story, I find it rather improbable that they're completely off base with these numbers.

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