What do of think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

[AvengerRam]

There is a fine line between confident and cocky...

[bubbaramfan]

This guy has "Contract Holdout" written all over him.

[RamsFanSam]

While he isn't as bad as TO, I'd really like to see more of a quiet confidence. Talking smack is part of the game, but not everyone does it. Bulger, for instance, is one of the best in the NFL at QB, yet we don't hear him running his mouth like Vick.

SJ, just shut up and play.

[Nick]

This guy has "Contract Holdout" written all over him.

And that claim is based on....?

[evil disco man]

I don't mind his attitude at all. The only quote from him that bothers me is the one where he stated that he believed the offense would be built around him. To me that is just ignoring the talent we have at QB and WR, as well as the stats of Scott Linehan's previous offenses. I don't think that comment was inappropriate, but he might have his expectations a little too high and could be disappointed to find out that we can still pass to set up the run.

I like his honesty. In my opinion he shouldn't have to be the quiet confident type or shut up and play, because he wouldn't be being himself. It's just a different personality. I'm glad he's willing to speak his mind and state his expectations/goals instead of spouting out boring, repetitive politically correct mumbo jumbo that was taught to him by his agent. I know he hasn't done much in his career so far, but it's not liked he's bragged about what he's done, only what he plans on doing.

As Ali would say...

"It ain't bragging if you can back it up!"

I don't care, as long as he backs it up.

[bubbaramfan]

I'm going by what I've been hearing from the guy Nick. Granted, it all depends on how he does in the future, and a lot depends on the agent he has. He seems a bit arrogant to me, and when the time comes i think he's showing signs of the hold out type. Just my opinion. Hope I'm wrong. Question was what we think of his attitude. I like that he wants to carry the rock. I like that he seems to come prepared. But I would like to see more "team player" from him. With a better OL He's gonna have a good year. Lets see what success does to his head.

[Nick]

I'm going by what I've been hearing from the guy Nick.

And what has that been? Because I haven't heard any comments about his contract or his being unhappy with his current deal or about compensation. Simply being confident in himself isn't enough to draw the line to contract holdout, IMO.

[bigredman]

I don't mind his attitude at all. The only quote from him that bothers me is the one where he stated that he believed the offense would be built around him. To me that is just ignoring the talent we have at QB and WR, as well as the stats of Scott Linehan's previous offenses. I don't think that comment was inappropriate, but he might have his expectations a little too high and could be disappointed to find out that we can still pass to set up the run.

Jackson stated that he believed the offense would be built around him, because Linehan TOLD HIM THAT. Now, his skepticism is due to the fact that Martz told him the same thing, but DIDN'T follow through.

Linehan goes with what works. In Minnesota, it was the passing game with Moss and Carter. In Miami, it was the running game. He will feel out what's working and not working this year and go with it. I like that aspect of Linehan.

Any team, and I mean ANY TEAM, that sets up the run with the pass WILL FAIL. I've explained this before, but will again. Its a lot easier to get defensive players to "cheat" in to support the run and expose and exploit that with a passing game, than trying to get defensive players to "lay back" and exploit that with a running game. The reason for this is that its easier for a defensive player to "react" and come in to support a running play, than reverse field to catch up to a receiver.

Bottom line, you go with what a defense gives you. Some games, the Rams will play smash mouth football and primarily run. Other games, the Rams will pass. This is what I like about Linehan over Martz.

[bubbaramfan]

I don't believe he has made any comments relating to his contract. Never said he did. But I am seeing the same kind of attitude and comments that other players who after realizing success "held out", for whatever reason. I've not heard much in the way of "team player" from this guy. It's mostly been all about S Jackson. And like I said before, its way too early to tell how he will be when his contract is up. I read everything I can on the Rams Nick, and this site is one of the best for that. I have to thank you for job u do as Mod, I;m impressed with this site's degree of quality posts and intellegnce of users. A far cry better than Post-Dispatch.
As a new member, I hope to keep to that.

[Fat Pang]

He should close his mouth, lower his head and not lead the league in stuffed runs before he proclaims himself as a man to build an offence round.

Yes we had problems on the line blah,blah blah, but great backs that you build offences around get past that. Earl Campbell, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers,Corey Dillon, Jamal Lewis were all backs who made the difference to teams who had poor surrounding talent at times in their careers and they still produced.

As for the playcaling last season and the amount of opportunities he had or didn't have, you do the best with the carries you get. He didn't last season, that's all.

It's early in his carer and I wish him all the best, I really do, but he needs to produce this season because he's surrounded by great talent.

He is the future of our running game and he has massive amounts of potential, he needs to start realising it.

[evil disco man]

Jackson stated that he believed the offense would be built around him, because Linehan TOLD HIM THAT. Now, his skepticism is due to the fact that Martz told him the same thing, but DIDN'T follow through.

Are there quotes out there from Linehan stating he was going to build the offense around Steven Jackson? He may have implied that talking with Jackson personally, even in convincing terms as many head coaches would do to their running back, but Linehan doesn't show the history of pounding the rock with one full-time player. One of the complaints he's gotten with Fins or Vikings fans was that he passed the ball too much once they got in that "zone." I almost mentioned Martz in my original post but didn't want to stir that pot, as this is just a Steven Jackson thread, but it seems like the FO knew their offense's strengths (passing offense/pass blocking) and hired the best available coach that would fit that stratgy.

Linehan goes with what works. In Minnesota, it was the passing game with Moss and Carter. In Miami, it was the running game. He will feel out what's working and not working this year and go with it. I like that aspect of Linehan.

In St. Louis it will be the combo of Holt/Bruce/Curtis, better than the best combo Minni's ever had, Moss/Carter/Reed in my opinion. And Linehan still helped Culpepper establish ridiculous passing stats and records. With both the Vikings and the Fins, he's used a running back by committee approach. He had at least three different situational RBs in Minnesota and both Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams with Miami. Yet still, in both places he's been known to aggravate fans by going "pass crazy," similar to criticisms of Martz. I guess it's easy to assume Linehan's offense will be more balanced, because almost every other offensive coached in the NFL would be viewed popularly as more balanced than Martz, but is it necessarily a good thing or just a falacy of the "norm"? The bottom line comes in wins, something that Martz has consistently produced as a head coach, while Linehan has a lot to prove, even with his contribution to many winning records during his OC coaching history.

Any team, and I mean ANY TEAM, that sets up the run with the pass WILL FAIL.

Well, just tell that to Marshall Faulk, Ike Bruce, Warner, Holt, Az Hakim, Ricky Proehl, and anyone else on the '99/'01 teams. Faulk's running style is not the type to set the tempo of the game. He didn't pound it out early to wear out the opposition's defense while our own D took hold of the game. Our potent 4 WR sets (we attacked fast & early to take the opening lead) would open up the lanes for the shifty, quick Faulk to break 5-6 yard gains consistently and always find an opportunity to break a long, juke-a-licious gamebreaker.

I've explained this before, but will again. Its a lot easier to get defensive players to "cheat" in to support the run and expose and exploit that with a passing game, than trying to get defensive players to "lay back" and exploit that with a running game. The reason for this is that its easier for a defensive player to "react" and come in to support a running play, than reverse field to catch up to a receiver.

Which is exactly why Martz was/is a groundbreaker in terms of offensive philosophy in today's NFL. Coaches like Mike Shanahan admit to studying his playbook through viewing Rams game tapes in the offseason to stay a "step ahead." Most teams try the route of "pounding running game/solid defense" to succeed in the playoffs, but the Rams have taken a different route and succeeded, which I'm proud of (puts them on the edge), and they seem to be intent on continuing that ultra-aggressive tradition with Scott Linehan/Jim Haslett.

peace,

-jake-

P.S. - I really don't want this to become another Martz vs. Linehan thread, despite how many might view this post, but rather a simplistic look into the Rams' offensive/defensive philosophy, new and old. :clanram:

[ramsbruce]

Well, just tell that to Marshall Faulk, Ike Bruce, Warner, Holt, Az Hakim, Ricky Proehl, and anyone else on the '99/'01 teams. Faulk's running style is not the type to set the tempo of the game. He didn't pound it out early to wear out the opposition's defense while our own D took hold of the game. Our potent 4 WR sets (we attacked fast & early to take the opening lead) would open up the lanes for the shifty, quick Faulk to break 5-6 yard gains consistently and always find an opportunity to break a long, juke-a-licious gamebreaker.


Which is exactly why Martz was/is a groundbreaker in terms of offensive philosophy in today's NFL. Coaches like Mike Shanahan admit to studying his playbook through viewing Rams game tapes in the offseason to stay a "step ahead." Most teams try the route of "pounding running game/solid defense" to succeed in the playoffs, but the Rams have taken a different route and succeeded, which I'm proud of (puts them on the edge), and they seem to be intent on continuing that ultra-aggressive tradition with Scott Linehan/Jim Haslett.

peace,

-jake-

P.S. - I really don't want this to become another Martz vs. Linehan thread, despite how many might view this post, but rather a simplistic look into the Rams' offensive/defensive philosophy, new and old. :clanram:

Excellent point about how our passing game set up the run...rep points left accordingly. Martz rewrote the rules on how teams had to defend the GSOT.

[Nick]

I don't believe he has made any comments relating to his contract.

And that's my point. Yes, maybe he shares a confident if not arrogant attitude that some players who do hold out also have, and I agree that I'd love to hear him shut his mouth and just get to work. But me personally, I don't think we've heard enough to have a realistic case to make for him as a potential hold-out just yet, especially since we're in agreement that he hasn't even brought up his contract status once.

Earl Campbell, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers,Corey Dillon, Jamal Lewis were all backs who made the difference to teams who had poor surrounding talent at times in their careers and they still produced.

Since you brought up Jamal Lewis as a great back that you build around, it should be noted that last year behind a poor offensive line, the playmaking Lewis could only muster 906 rushing yards on MORE carries than Jackson had, with a very mediocre 3.37 ypc average. In 2004, he barely broke 1,000 yards and had an average not much higher than Jackson's 2005 number.

But let's see... Earl Campbell, Bary Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers... is that really what we should be comparing two-year vet Steven Jackson to at this point? How often do players come along that can actually compare to guys like Sanders and Payton?

And yes, while these guys did do some amazing things, they also had their down years as well. Payton had years where he wasn't exactly lighting the league on fire. So did Barry. And as I pointed out above, so did Jamal. Sometimes, most times, it takes more than just one exceptionally talented guy.

Which is why, for me, this "So-and-so could make things happen behind a poor line so you should be able to as well" logic seems rather unfair. Instead of asking why Jackson can't do what so-and-so did behind a less than ideal line and blah-blah-blah our line problems as if they're nothing, why don't we ask for actual improvements on the line to help Jackson out?

Hopefully we've got them, but thus far I'm not convinced. We're returning two of our elder (and declining) interior linemen, and still don't seem to have any stability at left guard.

[majorram]

I just think that he should shut his mouth up and constrant on hitting those holes, his play if great will do the talking!!!!


steve:clanram:

[rammiser]

And that's my point. Yes, maybe he shares a confident if not arrogant attitude that some players who do hold out also have, and I agree that I'd love to hear him shut his mouth and just get to work. But me personally, I don't think we've heard enough to have a realistic case to make for him as a potential hold-out just yet, especially since we're in agreement that he hasn't even brought up his contract status once.




Since you brought up Jamal Lewis as a great back that you build around, it should be noted that last year behind a poor offensive line, the playmaking Lewis could only muster 906 rushing yards on MORE carries than Jackson had, with a very mediocre 3.37 ypc average. In 2004, he barely broke 1,000 yards and had an average not much higher than Jackson's 2005 number.

But let's see... Earl Campbell, Bary Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers... is that really what we should be comparing two-year vet Steven Jackson to at this point? How often do players come along that can actually compare to guys like Sanders and Payton?

And yes, while these guys did do some amazing things, they also had their down years as well. Payton had years where he wasn't exactly lighting the league on fire. So did Barry. And as I pointed out above, so did Jamal. Sometimes, most times, it takes more than just one exceptionally talented guy.

Which is why, for me, this "So-and-so could make things happen behind a poor line so you should be able to as well" logic seems rather unfair. Instead of asking why Jackson can't do what so-and-so did behind a less than ideal line and blah-blah-blah our line problems as if they're nothing, why don't we ask for actual improvements on the line to help Jackson out?

Hopefully we've got them, but thus far I'm not convinced. We're returning two of our elder (and declining) interior linemen, and still don't seem to have any stability at left guard.

I totally agree with you Nick. How can we compare a Steven Jackson who has only started 1 full year to hall of fame rb's? In a previous post on Jackson I pulled a lot of these backs 1st full year of starting's stats and aside from Barry Sanders they were pretty comparable. The stuffed runs thing is just rediculous because if you can judge a back by stuffed run then Barry Sanders is the worst ever. Sanders hold the record for stuffed runs, but someone will find an excuse as to why that is.

Also for some people to say he has Hold out written all over him is also unfair. Didnt Isaac Bruce hold out? Holding out doesnt make you a bad guy or not a team player does it? A lot of good guys in this league have held out for more money and they are still good guys. Seems to me a lot of people just dont like Jackson so a lot of this stuff is being blown way out of proportion.

Here is the comparison post I made in a previous thread about Jackson.

So basically you observed Jackson for 1 full year of starting in a system designed for Faulk and have decided he brings nothing to the table? I saw glimpses of a lot of things he brings to the table with the proper blocking up front. Yes he missed holes from time to time but he was used to getting hit immediately after getting the ball, wouldnt you hesitate? Here were jacksons stats from his first year.

Jackson:Games: 15,att: 254,Yds: 1046,Avg 4.1,Long 51,Td's 8,20+ 6,rec yds 320, rec td's 2

Lets look at the others who "brought it" as you said. Bettis only started 12 games his rookie year so i'll use 1994 stats.

Bettis:games:16, Att: 319,yds: 1025,avg: 3.2, Long 19,td's 3,20+ 0,rec yds 293, rec td's 1

Emmitt:games:16,att: 241,yds: 937,avg: 3.9,td's: 11,rec yds: 228,rec td's 0

Faulk:Games:16,att: 314,yds: 1282,avg: 4.1,long: 52,td's: 11,20+: 12,rec yds: 522,rec td's 1

Those are all pretty comparible stats if I say so myself. So lets stop dogging Jackson just because you feel like it and because you dont like him. You are being so unfair to Jackson by comparing him to superstars and judging him on 1 year and the superstars on their entire career. Let's give the guy a chance. This year he will get his chance and barring injury i'm saying he has a breakout year in a system that fits him.