View Poll Results: What do of think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

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  • I like the confidence. Keep it up.

    9 13.85%
  • I don't care, as long as he backs it up.

    14 21.54%
  • He should walk the walk before he talks the talk.

    13 20.00%
  • Its immature, but he'll grow out of it (hopefully).

    10 15.38%
  • I wish he'd just shut his mouth and play.

    19 29.23%
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  1. #16
    Milan's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    He should close his mouth, lower his head and not lead the league in stuffed runs before he proclaims himself as a man to build an offence round.

    Yes we had problems on the line blah,blah blah, but great backs that you build offences around get past that. Earl Campbell, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers,Corey Dillon, Jamal Lewis were all backs who made the difference to teams who had poor surrounding talent at times in their careers and they still produced.

    As for the playcaling last season and the amount of opportunities he had or didn't have, you do the best with the carries you get. He didn't last season, that's all.

    It's early in his carer and I wish him all the best, I really do, but he needs to produce this season because he's surrounded by great talent.

    He is the future of our running game and he has massive amounts of potential, he needs to start realising it.
    Part of the stuffed runs was his dancing in the backfield, a bigger part was the o-line making him dance in the backfield.

    I don't care as long as he backs it up and doesn't get the rest of the team mad at him like T.O.


  2. #17
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    He's talked THE talk, now walk THE walk !!!! I personally don't like the mouthy type of player. Respect is EARNED not gotten in a bubble gum machine for a quarter.

    Maineram -
    and out of the ashes rise ...The Breakfast Club !

  3. #18
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    And that's my point. Yes, maybe he shares a confident if not arrogant attitude that some players who do hold out also have, and I agree that I'd love to hear him shut his mouth and just get to work. But me personally, I don't think we've heard enough to have a realistic case to make for him as a potential hold-out just yet, especially since we're in agreement that he hasn't even brought up his contract status once.




    Since you brought up Jamal Lewis as a great back that you build around, it should be noted that last year behind a poor offensive line, the playmaking Lewis could only muster 906 rushing yards on MORE carries than Jackson had, with a very mediocre 3.37 ypc average. In 2004, he barely broke 1,000 yards and had an average not much higher than Jackson's 2005 number.

    But let's see... Earl Campbell, Bary Sanders, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers... is that really what we should be comparing two-year vet Steven Jackson to at this point? How often do players come along that can actually compare to guys like Sanders and Payton?

    And yes, while these guys did do some amazing things, they also had their down years as well. Payton had years where he wasn't exactly lighting the league on fire. So did Barry. And as I pointed out above, so did Jamal. Sometimes, most times, it takes more than just one exceptionally talented guy.

    Which is why, for me, this "So-and-so could make things happen behind a poor line so you should be able to as well" logic seems rather unfair. Instead of asking why Jackson can't do what so-and-so did behind a less than ideal line and blah-blah-blah our line problems as if they're nothing, why don't we ask for actual improvements on the line to help Jackson out?

    Hopefully we've got them, but thus far I'm not convinced. We're returning two of our elder (and declining) interior linemen, and still don't seem to have any stability at left guard.
    Okay Nick............oh dear, we do seem to be going head to head a lot recently don't we?????

    LOL

    Jackson makes those comaprisons when he starts talking about 2000 yard seasons when he barely gets past a 1'000 on the same amount of carries that Faulk made hay out of in the past.

    Jackson makes those comparisons when baldly states he's the man to build the offence round when we've got Holt, Bruce, and Bulger.

    Jackson makes those comaprisons when he states "Give me the ball".

    If it's Keyshawn we all groan and berate him, if it's Jackson, we're asked to give him a break because the left guard position isn't settled.

    All those guys I mentioned paid their dues and cashed their cheques and none of them to my knowledge ever said 'Give me the ball"...........or........."Focus the offence around me and my skills".

    Jackson hasn't yet. His mouth has attempted to put him in their category, I argue he isn't there yet.

    He makes the comparisons, not me, and he does it with little justification.

    Quoting Jamal Lewis' one bad season isn't going to change my opinion. And yes Nick, all backs have bad seasons but not all of them say they are the guy to build the offence round after they have them.

    I've pleaded patience for him in the past on these forums, but he needs to show a little more humility and a lot more performance.

  4. #19
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    He should just shut up and play, or if he wants to brag, if he's that type of player that's cool too, but only *after* he has proved beyond any doubt that he's not all talk - and I don't think he's there yet.

    I predict a personal disappointment this season for Steven Jackson, I'm not saying he won't play well (I think he will), I'm just saying I don't think he will be satisfied with the number of carries he gets. He seems to think that Linehan will "build the team" around him and that the Rams will switch the balance A LOT towards the run, at least that's the impression you get with what Steven says. I just don't see any indication from Linehans past teams that he will give Steven Jackson 350 carries or whatever he's hoping for. I think Linehan will run a sensible, balanced offense. I just hope that Steven Jackson will learn to accept that with no *****ing, otherwise he could cause us some trouble - because big-mouthed or not, we do need Steven Jackson this year, we need him a lot.

    All in all his personality does worry me, actually moreso than other 'questionable' characters on the team such as Incognito or Wroten. Here's to hoping the kid grows up...

  5. #20
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Okay Nick............oh dear, we do seem to be going head to head a lot recently don't we?????
    If it makes you feel any better, there are few I'd rather have an intellectual debate with. :up:


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Jackson makes those comaprisons when he starts talking about 2000 yard seasons
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Jackson makes those comparisons when baldly states he's the man to build the offence round when we've got Holt, Bruce, and Bulger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Jackson makes those comaprisons when he states "Give me the ball".
    What can I say? I disagree completely. I don't see how you can say Jackson is inviting comparisons to these players himself simply by being confident in his own play, saying he wants to be a focal point, and saying he wants to ball.

    The only specific milestone that could possibly draw any kind of comparison is the 2,000 yard mark. And Jackson's comment on it?

    "Do I think I could run for 2,000 yards if I got the ball 20 or 25 times a game? I think it's possible."

    Wow, how arrogant. LOL

    Did I not find the right 2,000 yard comment? Because that one's pretty tame.

    Yes, the guy's been talkative and confident this offseason, perhaps to the point where it looks like arrogance in some instances, but IMO, unless he specifically draws upon those names himself, it's a rather unfair comparison to jump to simply because of that confidence.

    And even if you could make those comparisons, he doesn't have to be Barry Sanders or Walter Payton to have a successful NFL career and help lead us to a championship, so I guess I don't even see the point to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    If it's Keyshawn we all groan and berate him, if it's Jackson, we're asked to give him a break because the left guard position isn't settled.
    Well speaking only for myself, I "groan" at Keyshawn because he gets into arguments on the sideline with his coaches and because of creating behind the scenes problems to the extent of causing him to be deactivated. Don't recall Jackson having done that...?

    Not to sound like a broken record, but Jackson and Keyshawn (and TO for that matter) aren't on the same page. If Jackson starts creating problems when he's unhappy and being a distraction with immature behavior and locker room problems, then let's talk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Quoting Jamal Lewis' one bad season isn't going to change my opinion.
    Well, looking at TWO of Lewis' years shows how even one of your great players can't always get results on their own.

    Thus, expecting Jackson to is not realistic, IMO. If it's not going to change your opinion, well, okay. But I think it's pretty compelling evidence that even the great backs can't do it all.

  6. #21
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Jackson hasn't shown me enough to even use his name in the same sentence with the # 2000! And he is in the % of players with that kind of TUDE that he may very well be a hold out type! He needs to get his nose deep in that playbook and come out with a vengence and show us how it's done. Cause so far, he's and average back at best and nothing more! Great backs make things happen when it looks like nothing will! Show me S. Jackson that you can carry the load and I'm in your corner all the way! But right now, your job is up for grabs IMO!!!!!!!!!
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  7. #22
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    Cool Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Disco Man
    Are there quotes out there from Linehan stating he was going to build the offense around Steven Jackson? He may have implied that talking with Jackson personally, even in convincing terms as many head coaches would do to their running back, but Linehan doesn't show the history of pounding the rock with one full-time player.
    As I stated in my original reply to you, the comments were from Jackson, and I haven't heard anything from Linehan to dispute them. I have no reason not to take Jackson at his word at the present time, unless YOU know something that I don't regarding what was said or not said between them.

    In St. Louis it will be the combo of Holt/Bruce/Curtis, better than the best combo Minni's ever had, Moss/Carter/Reed in my opinion. And Linehan still helped Culpepper establish ridiculous passing stats and records. With both the Vikings and the Fins, he's used a running back by committee approach. He had at least three different situational RBs in Minnesota and both Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams with Miami. Yet still, in both places he's been known to aggravate fans by going "pass crazy," similar to criticisms of Martz. I guess it's easy to assume Linehan's offense will be more balanced, because almost every other offensive coached in the NFL would be viewed popularly as more balanced than Martz, but is it necessarily a good thing or just a falacy of the "norm"? The bottom line comes in wins, something that Martz has consistently produced as a head coach, while Linehan has a lot to prove, even with his contribution to many winning records during his OC coaching history.
    Comparisons of the receiver corp in Minni vs St Lou is immaterial to the discussion. His running back by committee approach was justified for the following reasons, in Minni he didn't have a back worth a damn, in Miami he had a rookie with great potential but yet unproven, and Ricky Williams who he had to play to support the position the front office took in taking him back, and to see if the guy still had his stuff. Let's not forget his Quarterbacks in Miami stunk, and the receivers were average at best. I NEVER heard anyone complain that Linehan was "pass happy" in Miami. What I did hear was that the defense stunk, and his offense would often have to play catch up by passing the ball, but unfortunately, he didn't have the talent to accomplish that goal, so thus the criticism for a ineffective passing offense (I.E. passing to much without success).

    Well, just tell that to Marshall Faulk, Ike Bruce, Warner, Holt, Az Hakim, Ricky Proehl, and anyone else on the '99/'01 teams. Faulk's running style is not the type to set the tempo of the game. He didn't pound it out early to wear out the opposition's defense while our own D took hold of the game. Our potent 4 WR sets (we attacked fast & early to take the opening lead) would open up the lanes for the shifty, quick Faulk to break 5-6 yard gains consistently and always find an opportunity to break a long, juke-a-licious gamebreaker.
    This is just a plain ignorant analysis. The Rams would jump out ontop of teams in the early years, thus requiring them to try and catch up. The Rams would naturally run the ball later in the game to run down the clock. Our offensive line was much better then (younger) and provided the pass protection and running lanes for Faulk to prosper and rack up yards. If we are to believe YOU, then why didn't the "set up the run with the pass" work in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005? HMMMMMM? Where are all the other teams that use that philosophy (because you know that teams copy cat one another, i.e. the west coast offense). I REPEAT, there is no such thing as setting up the run with the passing game. Either you have a killer passing game that gets you in a large lead early, and you protect with the run, OR you condition the defense to cheat in to support the run and you make big plays by exploiting that. Its simple coaching 101.

    Which is exactly why Martz was/is a groundbreaker in terms of offensive philosophy in today's NFL. Coaches like Mike Shanahan admit to studying his playbook through viewing Rams game tapes in the offseason to stay a "step ahead." Most teams try the route of "pounding running game/solid defense" to succeed in the playoffs, but the Rams have taken a different route and succeeded, which I'm proud of (puts them on the edge), and they seem to be intent on continuing that ultra-aggressive tradition with Scott Linehan/Jim Haslett.
    And here is where you reveal your agenda. OOOHHHH, the ghost of Martz compels you. So Linehan is Martz's twin brother, right? Is that what you are telling me?
    How many teams adopted "Martz's offensive philosophy"? How many of those teams won the Super Bowl since the year 2000? HMMMMMMM? You honestly think that the "MARTZ ERA" set the pace for the rest of the league? Come on. Tell me a story. I like a good fairy tale.

    peace,

    -jake-
    Peace to you, my brother!

    P.S. - I really don't want this to become another Martz vs. Linehan thread, despite how many might view this post, but rather a simplistic look into the Rams' offensive/defensive philosophy, new and old.
    Um....its impossible to make anything a Martz vs Linehan thread since we haven't seen Linehan's offense, however, your love of Martz and wish to resurrect that he (or a copy of) was still head coach is obvious. Move on, brother, move on.
    Last edited by bigredman; -06-24-2006 at 08:25 PM.
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  8. #23
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Excellent point about how our passing game set up the run...rep points left accordingly. Martz rewrote the rules on how teams had to defend the GSOT.
    Learn football son. What a waste of rep points.
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  9. #24
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Learn football son. What a waste of rep points.
    Wow you really do like to act like you know it all. Get over yourself. I know plenty about football. I happen to disagree with your "NO WAY you can set up the run with the pass." So that means I don't know football? *ROLLS EYES*

    I don't see you coaching in the NFL, and you have no idea what my football credentials are, so maybe you don't know as much as you think.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  10. #25
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Move over Kurt Warner and Mike Martz, there's a new lightning rod in town and his name is Steven Jackson. To be continued.....

  11. #26
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Wow you really do like to act like you know it all. Get over yourself. I know plenty about football. I happen to disagree with your "NO WAY you can set up the run with the pass." So that means I don't know football? *ROLLS EYES*

    I don't see you coaching in the NFL, and you have no idea what my football credentials are, so maybe you don't know as much as you think.
    That was sarcasm son. A wry joke. Don't get your panties in a wad. OK. You are obviously sensitive. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. You know more about football than I do. Feel better?
    :tongue:
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  12. #27
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    That was sarcasm son. A wry joke. Don't get your panties in a wad. OK. You are obviously sensitive. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. You know more about football than I do. Feel better?
    :tongue:
    It certainly didn't come across as sarcasm. Your "NO WAY NEVER HAPPEN" comes across as a know it all, just sayin that's how it looks. I'm never sensitive on the internet, I'm feisty. I would never imply that I know more about football than you or anyone. I felt fine all day. :tongue:
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  13. #28
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    It certainly didn't come across as sarcasm. Your "NO WAY NEVER HAPPEN" comes across as a know it all, just sayin that's how it looks. I'm never sensitive on the internet, I'm feisty. I would never imply that I know more about football than you or anyone. I felt fine all day. :tongue:
    I don't remember saying "no way never happens" to you. Well, my question goes to you too. Show me. Show me how the pass sets up the run. Show me, how this wildly successful strategy by Martz has been copied by NFL teams. Show me the teams that have won the Super Bowl that embraced this philosophy since the Rams last won the Super Bowl. Prove me wrong.. Call me arrogant all you want. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right on THIS issue. You are right on one thing. I don't coach in the NFL. I've coached Pop Warner Football for years, because that's where my heart is at, and yes, even though I've been approached by high schools and junior colleges to coach, I remain where I'm at. I don't pretend to know everything, and I have demonstrated regularly on this website that I admit when I'm wrong. Its just that you haven't proved that, nor has Evil Disco Man either. Again, if I've ruined your "fine" day, I didn't mean to.
    Last edited by bigredman; -06-24-2006 at 10:19 PM.
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  14. #29
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    I don't remember saying "no way never happens" to you. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right on THIS issue.
    Here you said THEY WILL FAIL.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Any team, and I mean ANY TEAM, that sets up the run with the pass WILL FAIL.
    It's a matter of opinion that you are right. Just like I stated my opinion disagreeing with you. The proof is the offense of the 99 Rams, and it was explained earlier in this thread. Also we didn't have a big lead in every game, so that's not a valid argument.

    I didn't say teams copied it, and what teams really had the personnel to copy it anyways. That's why it's the GSOT, it was unique.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Prove me wrong....yeh...that's what I thought. Call me arrogant all you want. It doesn't change the fact that I'm right on THIS issue
    I don't need to call you arrogant, answering your own question with "yeh..that's what I thought" says it all right there, don't you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    Again, if I've ruined your "fine" day, I didn't mean to
    Funny that you bring that up again when I already said nothing on the internet bothers me and will never ruin my day. I do have an idea why you brought it up again, but I will leave you to ponder that.

    Have a good day.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  15. #30
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    Look, if Jackson shares the belief great backs can't do it by themselves then why would he state that the offence should be built around him when he's surrounded by great talent.

    That would indicate to me that he thinks that he's the man. He did not do enough in his first season as starter to justify that.

    I would further argue that all of the backs I mentioned would do more with the same amount of carries because over the course of their careers they did.

    Now you could legitmately claim that I'm jumping the gun a little there because Jackson's only in his second season. My answer is that in talking in the way that he does, he put's himself in that line of questioning.

    He shouldn't even be muttering stuff about 2000 yards until he gets past 1'500 and can string together more than one 150 yard game in a season.

    We're talking about Marshall in other threads, and I can't remember him ever talking about personal accomplishments in the way that Jackson has, despite his substantial production.

    By way of brief comment on the other debate here, the 'pass setting up the run' debate, our friends from the Bay area won more than one SB with a system that did exactly that.

    I've just noticed that there are a 1034 people looking at these forums.

    I can't believe Nick and me are the only people that feel strongly enough about it to debate this??????????

    Apologies to all those other fine folks who have contributed but I can't list you all here, you know who you are.
    Last edited by Nick; -06-25-2006 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Merging back to back posts

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