View Poll Results: What do of think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

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  • I like the confidence. Keep it up.

    9 13.85%
  • I don't care, as long as he backs it up.

    14 21.54%
  • He should walk the walk before he talks the talk.

    13 20.00%
  • Its immature, but he'll grow out of it (hopefully).

    10 15.38%
  • I wish he'd just shut his mouth and play.

    19 29.23%
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  1. #31
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    As I stated in my original reply to you, the comments were from Jackson, and I haven't heard anything from Linehan to dispute them. I have no reason not to take Jackson at his word at the present time, unless YOU know something that I don't regarding what was said or not said between them.
    "I'm expecting a lot more touches than the last couple of years. I'm expecting more balance and a different approach of attacking. But still an explosive offense."

    "It seems like everyone is making me the focal point, which two years ago when I was drafted, that's what the plan was. We knew that eventually the team was going to be more geared and built around me, and now it seems like it's starting to come to the forefront."

    More touches... more balance... still an explosive offense. No surprises there. Now Jackson never said anything about Linehan talking to him about being the centerpiece, but I could've missed a quote somewhere, not 100% sure. According to this one, he just believes he's getting more attention from "everyone" which could mean anyone (media, fans, coaches). The fact that he thinks the plan when we drafted him was to build the offense around him seems laughable to me (maybe a reason for you to doubt what he says? ), considering the talent we already had and the Rams' well known passing tendencies. My point is that he's probably getting his hopes up too high with Linehan's known tendencies and could very well be disappointed. That said, Linehan has run a top-5 rushing offense in Minnesota, so there is hope for some more balance.

    Comparisons of the receiver corp in Minni vs St Lou is immaterial to the discussion.
    In Minnesota in 2004, Linehan's passing offense with Culpepper put up 4,717 yards while the top three running backs combined for about 1200 rushing yards (not counting Culpepper being their second-leading rusher). In St. Louis, Linehan has a better receiving corps and an equal quarterback, hence the comparison and pass-happy possibility. Again, I think Jackson might be getting his hopes up.

    I NEVER heard anyone complain that Linehan was "pass happy" in Miami.
    Here's something I found pretty quickly:
    Linehan Blew It
    Eerily familiar complaints.

    I know you said "in Miami," but here's another find from when Linehan was coaching in Minnesota:

    I also think that Scott Linehan deserves some blame as well. Sure, Michael Bennett missed much of the early season. Then Onterrio Smith served his drug suspension. You would have thought that Linehan would have learned from how successful the team was when Mewelde Moore was the team’s lone option at RB. When he was given 25-30 touches in those three games, he produced. And he is the team’s 4th RB. Imagine what either Bennett (over 1,500 yards last year) or Smith could have done given that many touches. Yet, whenever the team struggled, we saw that the RBs would only get 5-12 rushes the whole game. I think at times they got too pass happy. Many teams use the run to set up the pass. The Vikings need to pass to set up the run, but they also should really keep with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BRM
    I REPEAT, there is no such thing as setting up the run with the passing game. Either you have a killer passing game that gets you in a large lead early, and you protect with the run, OR you condition the defense to cheat in to support the run and you make big plays by exploiting that. Its simple coaching 101.
    While we used that killer passing game early on, Marshall would get carries here & there for big gains, and averaged over 5.0 per carry a lot of the time. That to me is passing to set up the run, and while it's not nearly as effective as running to set up the pass (as you said it's easier for defenders to react and support the run instead of react to catch up to a downfield WR), it's still possible to pick up extra yards/lanes on those runs because the defense is sitting back while the guys up front can be more easily put out of position to defend their gap. I just don't think Marshall would've averaged over 5.0 all those times if the offense were a grind-it-out, run to set up the pass scheme (just speculation, all my opinion). It's even possible that the running game later on was more successful because of the defense being winded from all that passing. "Pass to set up the run" might be a bad term to use because it's not really the central reason for using the pass early, but it can definitely pick up extra yards here and there. (BTW, knowing you're a coach with probably more education on philosophies had me anticipating your rebuttal, so I appreciate you taking the time.)

    And here is where you reveal your agenda. OOOHHHH, the ghost of Martz compels you.
    And I didn't even mention his name once in this post. I'm so proud of myself.

    So Linehan is Martz's twin brother, right? Is that what you are telling me?
    Nah, Linehan is his own man. But he's certainly not afraid to pass a hell of a lot, maybe even prone to it. I'm hoping for more balance like most Ram fans, but I get the feeling some people think (or hope) we'll become the Bucs or Panthers in terms of philosophy.
    Last edited by evil disco man; -06-25-2006 at 12:18 AM.


  2. #32
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    I've just noticed that there are a 1034 people looking at these forums.

    I can't believe Nick and me are the only people that feel strongly enough about it to debate this??????????
    Well, to me it's really a non-issue. I don't consider Jackson's statements that inflammatory, nor do I consider his "give me the ball" attitude a problem...yet. Yes, he seems cocky and self-centered. Yes, it could be a problem. I'd rather hear him talking about the team, but I still think this is being blown somewhat out of proportion.

    If we're winning and he's griping, then we'll talk. If we're losing and we don't have any kind of offensive balance, he might have a legitimate point, but it will depend on how he expresses it. I don't recall Linehan seeming that pass happy in the games I've seen his teams play. I don't really think the stats reflect a huge imbalance either (there were only 3 games last year that Ricky and Ronnie didn't combine for at least 20 carries, and the team finished pretty close to the same NFL ranking in passing and rushing yards). On the other hand, if Jackson thinks that he's going to be the focus of the offense the way say Jamal Lewis or Ricky Williams were for their teams a couple years ago, he's probably going to be disappointed. However, predicting how he is going to choose to react to a hypothetical situation by extrapolating on a handful of soundbytes and projecting our own interpretations of his opinions is about as effective as predicting how a player is going to rebound from an injury that hasn't happened yet. It could be a problem, but I don't see enough cause to worry at the moment.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -06-25-2006 at 02:36 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Look, if Jackson shares the belief great backs can't do it by themselves then why would he state that the offence should be built around him when he's surrounded by great talent.
    ...what?! Pang, please get your story straight, bud. I'm not arguing what belief Jackson shares. I'm not Jackson. I'm not in his head to tell you what he believes or not. I never said he shared these beliefs. They're my beliefs. Mine.

    So why are you trying to use them as if they're Jackson's thoughts in an effort to try and prove him of some inconsistency?

    The point - MY point - of illustrating how even the great backs can't find ways to always overcome difficulties was to show how such expectations for Jackson doing the same behind a weak line was unfair.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of comments regarding being the focus or centerpiece of the offense, which according to the Pasquarelli article, is something the coaching staff apparently told him about how they plan to use him. Whether you believe that or not, that's up to you. But I have no reason not to believe Jackson about it. *shrugs*


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    He shouldn't even be muttering stuff about 2000 yards until he gets past 1'500 and can string together more than one 150 yard game in a season.
    Good lord Pang, all he said was it's possible. POSSIBLE. And he said it in the context of an interview asking him about what could have been had he gotten more carries.

    It's not like he came out and publically declared it without being asked. It's not like he called a press conference at Rams Park to announce it. He didn't come out and say, "Give me 20 carries a game and I will break the 2,000 yard mark." He didn't make a Joe Namath guarantee. He didn't say, "Give me my carries and I'll be better than Barry."

    He said it was possible. And I agree with him, because just about anything is possible in the NFL. Saying it's possible means simply that - it COULD happen. Which it could. He could also get injured in camp and go on IR. That's possible as well.

    Take a breath and reread that for a second. If you're still getting bent out of shape about it, I don't know what to tell you. It seems like you're really jumping on his back about what is a rather mild statement, but that's just me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    I've just noticed that there are a 1034 people looking at these forums.

    I can't believe Nick and me are the only people that feel strongly enough about it to debate this??????????

    Apologies to all those other fine folks who have contributed but I can't list you all here, you know who you are.
    The numbers just aren't accurate. It's 3AM EST and it says there are 88 members active (900+ guests), but if you look at some individual profiles to see what they're actively doing, some haven't done anything in hours.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    Well, to me it's really a non-issue. I don't consider Jackson's statements that inflammatory, nor do I consider his "give me the ball" attitude a problem...yet. Yes, he seems cocky and self-centered. Yes, it could be a problem. I'd rather hear him talking about the team, but I still think this is being blown somewhat out of proportion.
    Thank you! :up:

    If the other comments are about as tame as his 2000 yard comment, then it's more than somewhat being blown out of proportion, IMO.

    Admittingly, I don't know where all those supposed immature inflammatory self-centered comments are, nor did I memorize them when I first came across them, so if someone could provide some links, maybe we can go back and actually take a look at what was really said to see just how up in arms we should be.

  4. #34
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Evil Disco Man - I'll admit there are instances where an offense will use the pass to get the safeties to back off from run support (although I feel if your safeties are making the majority of tackles in run support, you have major problems in both your run and passing defense). There is also the school of the west coast offense that uses motion releases, short slants by the WR, tight end curls and posts to sweep the linebackers out from concentrating on run support, which I believe my friend Fat Pang was referring to. I guess I don't consider such tactics as setting up the run with the pass. I think it more as balance. Maybe we are arguing semantics here. Who knows. I enjoyed the discussion all the same.

    As for Jackson....most of your productive players want the ball in their hands if not all the time, most of the time. Whether they are running backs or receivers, they consider themselves or want to be the focus of the team. Many of these cats will keep that opinion between themselves and the coaching staff, others lay it out there for the world to know. I don't think its a bad thing for Jackson to express his desire to carry this team on his back and in doing so being what he considers to be one of the best backs in the league (which he would be if he went 2000 yards, although it shows a confidence in the current offensive line I don't share). So long as he doesn't warp that attitude into something destructive like TO did. At this point, I don't see his comments creating that atmosphere on the team.
    Last edited by bigredman; -06-25-2006 at 10:42 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Jackson's comments remind me of that commercial a couple of years ago, went something like this:

    "There is no 'I' in team."
    "Yeah, well, there ain't no 'we' neither."

  6. #36
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    What do I have to say???

    Jackson should not say anything about 2000 yards or being the centre piece of anything until he proves he's capable of it.

    HE HASN'T NICK, NOT YET.

    I do not look for inconsistency in any of his statements because there isn't any. He has stated he should be given the ball more, that he should be the focal point of the offence, and that if he's given 25 carries a game he'll likely get 2000 yards.

    I don't have any expectations for him Nick and what's more have stated as much. He's a back about to start his 2nd season as a starter, if anything I'm a little more realistic.

    As I said, IMO he shouldn't even mutter it, who said anything about him guaranteeing it?

    Not me.....................

    Just about anything is possible in the NFL as in life itself but some things are more likely than others.

    None of those backs I mentioned ever had quite the same interpretation of what is possible as #39, or quite the same opinion of themselves as far as I am aware.

    Take a breath Nick, he's cocky, admit it to yourself for just one second, because that's my only point and has been my point for sometime now.

    It's the only thing I've said and I've used his own words to prove my point. I have never "jumped on his back", I've said he should keep him mouth closed and get on with the job at hand because I believe he has the talent to do a great job.

    As an established archivist, have a look at some of my posts from last season where I defended him from some of those who said he wasn't up to scratch and said that we should have patience.

    He should have more patience with himself.

    As for being up in arms about anything, maybe me and Jackson could get together and complain about our comments being twisted for the sake of it.

    You'd support one of us right?

    Get your story straight Nick.

    Or maybe you just choose to attempt to disprove everything I say after I had the temerity to question you on an alternative thread?

    Oh, and if the numbers aren't accurate, don't display them.

  7. #37
    MauiRam's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    BRM wrote: "At this point, I don't see his comments creating that atmosphere on the team."

    My two cents:Some on this board for whatever reason are not put off by Jackson's statements, others are. I see no reason why it would be any different among actual Ram players. Some probably don't care and others are perhaps rubbed the wrong way.

    My personal take is that I would rather see him walk the walk than hear him talk the talk. At this point there appears to be no harm done, and I am sure we all wish Steven the best. If he does have a breakout season, I hope that it will not lead to whining about contractual issues.

  8. #38
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Jackson should not say anything about 2000 yards or being the centre piece of anything until he proves he's capable of it.

    HE HASN'T NICK, NOT YET.
    Really? Who's to say what Steven Jackson is or isn't capable of? Capability is defined as having the ability required to complete a certain task. What's your system for measuring ability and capability, Pang?

    The fact of the matter is we don't know how much he's improved from 2005, and I seriously doubt anyone knows what Steven Jackson's roof is, at least not to the point of pinpointing the greatest thing he'll ever be able to accomplish in his pro career or able to accomplish right now. Furthermore, I believe the capability of the running back is widely dependent on the blocking he receives. So for me, there are too many questions and unknowns surrounding the situation to believe he has or has not proven he's capable.

    Though I'd be interested to see how you definitively know he isn't capable of it at this present time. And by that I mean not just your opinion that he isn't, since the caps lock and the lack of any "I think" or "IMO" seem to suggest you're presenting a cold hard fact that he isn't.


    He has stated he should be given the ball more, that he should be the focal point of the offence, and that if he's given 25 carries a game he'll likely get 2000 yards.
    Actually, the bolded part is wrong. He didn't say it was likely, he said it was possible.

    Big difference.

    Which is why I asked for someone to find the other quotes to see if they're also being blown out of proportion or misrepresented as you are doing to the 2000 yard quote, which I even clearly provided two responses ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Take a breath Nick, he's cocky, admit it to yourself for just one second
    I stated on page two of this thread that his attitude is confident if not arrogant, but the extent to how much his confidence is actually arrogance, if any of it actually is, I have no idea.

    I think it's rather hard to make a determination on someone's attitude merely through the written word. You seem to have no qualms about it though, so maybe I should adopt that approach.

    That said, I seem to want to slow down and examine more evidence before making up my mind, whereas you've already been judge and jury and have jumped to the conclusion that he's cocky. And I'm the one who needs to take a breath? Hmmm, whatever you say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    It's the only thing I've said and I've used his own words to prove my point.
    Actually no. At least in the case of the 2000 yard quote, you claimed he said it was likely when he actually said it was possible.

    So I think, at the moment, it would be rather hard for me to believe that you're really using his own words to prove your point when I've already shown how your recollection of at least one quote was inaccurate.

    Again, just another reason I asked for the actual quotes to be presented so we could examine them once more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Or maybe you just choose to attempt to disprove everything I say after I had the temerity to question you on an alternative thread?
    Not at all, and that should be obvious due to the number of other threads where I've defended Jackson in recent weeks. I believe I did so once with tx in the Quotables thread and once with theodus in the Bernie-Faulk Unhappy thread. Am I targeting their posts because of some past grudge, as well? Puh-lease.

    Besides, two posts ago I complimented you as worthy opposition in an intellectual debate. Why would I do that if I was holding some kind of grudge from a previous thread?

    You sound as if you're taking this way too personally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Pang
    Oh, and if the numbers aren't accurate, don't display them.
    That's something you need to take up with Dez (hopefully with a more respectful and less demanding tone). As the administrator, he's the only one who can actually edit what's displayed and what isn't. Though from what I recall from Dez on this topic, he felt the numbers were accurate.
    Last edited by Nick; -06-25-2006 at 04:19 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    Really? Who's to say what Steven Jackson is or isn't capable of? Capability is defined as having the ability required to complete a certain task. What's your system for measuring ability and capability, Pang?

    The fact of the matter is we don't know how much he's improved from 2005, and I seriously doubt anyone knows what Steven Jackson's roof is, at least not to the point of pinpointing the greatest thing he'll ever be able to accomplish in his pro career or able to accomplish right now. Furthermore, I believe the capability of the running back is widely dependent on the blocking he receives.
    Not only is his improved ability and the blocking he receives determine his capability Nick, but his success will be directly proportional to the proficiency of the passing game to set up the run (I'm sorry, I just had to use that, I know I'm a smart ass).
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  10. #40
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman
    As I stated in my original reply to you, the comments were from Jackson, and I haven't heard anything from Linehan to dispute them. I have no reason not to take Jackson at his word at the present time, unless YOU know something that I don't regarding what was said or not said between them.

    Comparisons of the receiver corp in Minni vs St Lou is immaterial to the discussion. His running back by committee approach was justified for the following reasons, in Minni he didn't have a back worth a damn, in Miami he had a rookie with great potential but yet unproven, and Ricky Williams who he had to play to support the position the front office took in taking him back, and to see if the guy still had his stuff. Let's not forget his Quarterbacks in Miami stunk, and the receivers were average at best. I NEVER heard anyone complain that Linehan was "pass happy" in Miami. What I did hear was that the defense stunk, and his offense would often have to play catch up by passing the ball, but unfortunately, he didn't have the talent to accomplish that goal, so thus the criticism for a ineffective passing offense (I.E. passing to much without success).

    This is just a plain ignorant analysis. The Rams would jump out on top of teams in the early years, thus requiring them to try and catch up. The Rams would naturally run the ball later in the game to run down the clock. Our offensive line was much better then (younger) and provided the pass protection and running lanes for Faulk to prosper and rack up yards. If we are to believe YOU, then why didn't the "set up the run with the pass" work in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005? HMMMMMM? Where are all the other teams that use that philosophy (because you know that teams copy cat one another, i.e. the west coast offense). I REPEAT, there is no such thing as setting up the run with the passing game. Either you have a killer passing game that gets you in a large lead early, and you protect with the run, OR you condition the defense to cheat in to support the run and you make big plays by exploiting that. Its simple coaching 101.

    And here is where you reveal your agenda. OOOHHHH, the ghost of Martz compels you. So Linehan is Martz's twin brother, right? Is that what you are telling me?
    How many teams adopted "Martz's offensive philosophy"? How many of those teams won the Super Bowl since the year 2000? HMMMMMMM? You honestly think that the "MARTZ ERA" set the pace for the rest of the league? Come on. Tell me a story. I like a good fairy tale.

    Peace to you, my brother!

    Um....its impossible to make anything a Martz vs Linehan thread since we haven't seen Linehan's offense, however, your love of Martz and wish to resurrect that he (or a copy of) was still head coach is obvious. Move on, brother, move on.
    The above is a post I made in response to Evil Disco Man earlier in this thread. Who, like a man, responded with rebuttal in this thread. However, some coward, without identifying themself, left negative (red) rep regarding this post simply stating "Too critical while being self justified". I know it wasn't Evil Disco Man (nor Ramsbruce, or Fat Pang) who left this. They have to much self respect, integrity, and pride to do such a cowardly thing. Let me understand this, whoever you are, its your position that no one should criticize someone else's position while feeling justified in their own position? Is that what you are saying? I bet you're a busy person on here with your little red button then, or maybe you just have a problem with me. Go ahead and hide behind the rep button with your opinion. I know you don't have the guts to express it openly on here. I NEVER leave negative rep. Only positive. When I disagree, I post my rebuttal to that person in the thread, like someone with pride and self respect does.
    :down:
    Last edited by bigredman; -06-25-2006 at 09:29 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    I like his Confidence, now if he doesn't prove he can put up big numbers this year he better shut his mouth.
    RamsFan16

  12. #42
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Hey...look who's back from vacation. We missed ya. I'm thinking if he doesn't get the playing time again that he believes he's been promised this year, or the success in yardage....I HOPE he doesn't react badly. IMO, that will be the big test regarding Jackson.
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  13. #43
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    So far, all I see from him is flapping his gums. Sorry y'all but as a top first round pick from a few years ago and the top RB selected...he hasn't actually set the ED on fire.

  14. #44
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsFanSam
    Jackson's comments remind me of that commercial a couple of years ago, went something like this:

    "There is no 'I' in team."
    "Yeah, well, there ain't no 'we' neither."
    But there is "me" in team and Jackson so far has demonstrated that fact.

  15. #45
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    Re: What do you think of Steven Jackson's attitude?

    I think we all agree that, if a player is going to talk, he'd better back it up on the field.

    The real question here is, would you rather have a player who is humble off the field and produces on the field, or an "in-your-face" kind of superstar?

    I, for one, would rather Steven Jackson tone down the MEisms even if he puts up huge numbers this year. I don't know what he's like in his heart or even behind-the-scenes, but when he gets a microphone placed in front of him, he comes accross in a "rubs me the wrong way" manner.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -06-26-2006 at 01:23 PM.

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