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Thread: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Yes, and Sam took the Rams from 1-15 to 7-9 as a rookie.

    As for Luck, one play today is very relevant to this thread. Luck threw a TD pass to T.Y. Hilton today that was, no pun intended, lucky. He threw to a well covered WR in double coverage and his guy came down with the ball. The pass should have been intercepted.

    Sam probably would not have thrown that pass.
    Yes, saw that pass. Luck did make some throws that were quite "rookie ish" but I also saw him buy some time on a few 3rd and longs that gave his receivers some time to get open. I see a pocket presence that is amazing and is excatly what is required ESPECIALLY with deficient line. The interception thing is not super relevant to me as long as there is some distance between TD's thrown and interceptions. I recall Kurt had 36 TD's and 22 int......The Rams went to SB.....

    BTW, Lucks QB rating is now 79
    Last edited by macrammer; -11-05-2012 at 01:34 PM.


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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    I think Luck will be a very good QB.

    The comparison is really more about risk taking.

    I think Sam has been risk averse for several reasons. On the good side, I think he is more of a "surgeon" than a "gunslinger," and is therefore likely to avoid costly mistakes. I also have to believe that playing in 3 systems in 3 years has caused him to think more, as opposed to just playing by instinct. Finally, while I doubt Sam would admit it, he's had few WRs who have been able to fight for the ball. Probably the best two he's had in that category have been Brandon Lloyd (for 1/2 season) and Danario Alexander (again, in limited time).
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBritishRam View Post
    Whilst I agree with pretty much everything you say it's worth noting that Colts have a very soft schedule this year: Take out the Bears, Patriots, Packers and Texans (x2) you're left with:
    Vikings, Jags (x2), Jets, Browns, Titans (x2), Dolphins, Bills, Lions and Chiefs.
    If I could hand pick a schedule for a rookie QB it would look a lot like this short of throwing the Cardinals in there somewhere. Also Reggie Wayne would be the best WR on our roster by a mile. Having said that Luck does look like the real deal.
    Point taken- but the Rams' schedule two years ago when we went 7-9 was also embarrassingly easy. Plus, our division was a joke, as evidenced by Seattle winning it with a 7-9 record. Any arguments made for or against Luck in 2012 could also be done for Bradford in 2010. And our schedule this year is comparable to Indy's- yes we have Chicago, SF (2x), Green Bay and New England but we also have Buffalo, Minn, Tampa, Miami, Washington and the Jets. Arizona stinks all of a sudden. So in terms of level of difficulty its not that much different. All one can do is play the games on their schedule.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBritishRam View Post
    Whilst I agree with pretty much everything you say it's worth noting that Colts have a very soft schedule this year: Take out the Bears, Patriots, Packers and Texans (x2) you're left with:
    Vikings, Jags (x2), Jets, Browns, Titans (x2), Dolphins, Bills, Lions and Chiefs.
    If I could hand pick a schedule for a rookie QB it would look a lot like this short of throwing the Cardinals in there somewhere. Also Reggie Wayne would be the best WR on our roster by a mile. Having said that Luck does look like the real deal.
    When a team is coming off of a 1, 2 or 3 games won the previous season, I don't think there is such a thing as an easy or soft schedule.
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Does it slighty bother anyone else that we are comparing Sam to progress of a rookie? Does it also bother anyone that we are seeing thing from a rookie that we still don't see from Sam?

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    Does it slighty bother anyone else that we are comparing Sam to progress of a rookie? Does it also bother anyone that we are seeing thing from a rookie that we still don't see from Sam?
    Actually, I didn't list any rookies in my initial comparison. Luck came up later in the conversation.

    As for what we are "seeing from a rookie"... what I see is some undeniable talent, some highlight plays, and some dumb plays. Truth be told, Luck threw two passes that should have been intercepted yesterday, which would have resulted in a loss. He was lucky.

    If I had to guess, I'd say that Luck will finish the year with a lot of yards, a lot of interceptions, and won't make the playoffs.

    Who will be a better QB in the long run? Who knows? But, more importantly, who cares? The year the Rams needed to take a QB in the draft, their choices were Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy and Jimmy Clausen. Obviously, they took the right guy.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    It's funny you should mention this, because I think you could make a really strong case for Bradford as a "game manager." But perhaps not the definition most associate with the title.

    When we as fans think of a "game manager," our minds probably immediately go to a quarterback who doesn't have a lot of talent but is just coached not to make many mistakes. I imagine the coach's approach to that type of game manager is, "Do what you're supposed to do, don't do anything too risky, take what the defense gives you, because you're not good enough to do much more than that."

    But in Sam's case, he's a game manager of a different color, because he's on a team that doesn't have a lot of talent, and (IMO) because of that, it restricts what he's capable of. He's a game manager in the sense that he's responsible for managing a really crappy situation. "Do what you're supposed to do, don't do anything too risky, take what the defense gives you, because the talent around you is not good enough to do much more than that."

    I dunno if that makes sense, but I read your response and it made me just kind of think about how, in Sam's case, you could apply the title so long as the context is reversed from how we traditionally think about it. Rather than the QB being a game manager because of his own shortcomings, Sam could be called a game manager in the sense that he's dealing with the shortcomings of those around him - questionable offensive line play, lack of consistent weapons in the passing game, questionable run game, etc.

    I think when it comes to the interception percentage stat, it makes sense to point out that Sam has played under two coaches with defensive backgrounds who prefer a more ball control style of play. Fisher is incorporating more intermediate and deep plays into the passing game than Shurmur did under Spagnuolo, but I think from a broader philosophical standpoint, we're still talking about a coach who would rather play strong defense and ball control offense than, say, a wide open Patriots or Packers type of offensive style.

    I think Sam has been preached to so often in his three year career about protecting the ball, that he simply doesn't take many risks in terms of pass attempts. That leads to a low interception percentage, which is great, but I think it can also to some degree handcuff the passing game. With better weapons, and Givens is certainly helping to open things up so that's a start, then I think we'll see Sam allowed off the leash a little bit more, which might mean this number goes up a bit but it will also, as Av said, lead to some bigger numbers in other categories.

    But until the talent around him improves to the point where those risks are justifiable due to the offense's talent and ability to make up for missed opportunities on later drives, then I think Sam will probably continue being protective of the football.
    you are now my official presidential write it. good stuff nick
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    When a team is coming off of a 1, 2 or 3 games won the previous season, I don't think there is such a thing as an easy or soft schedule.
    True but it's not like the Colts had been losing for years like the Rams, Browns, Jags etc.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Actually, I didn't list any rookies in my initial comparison. Luck came up later in the conversation.

    As for what we are "seeing from a rookie"... what I see is some undeniable talent, some highlight plays, and some dumb plays. Truth be told, Luck threw two passes that should have been intercepted yesterday, which would have resulted in a loss. He was lucky.



    If I had to guess, I'd say that Luck will finish the year with a lot of yards, a lot of interceptions, and won't make the playoffs.

    Who will be a better QB in the long run? Who knows? But, more importantly, who cares? The year the Rams needed to take a QB in the draft, their choices were Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy and Jimmy Clausen. Obviously, they took the right guy.
    In hindsight, I have often wondered if Rams drafted a QB ahead of having other key pieces installed to make the QB more effective. Our O line issues have been prevelant and we still have no number 1 receiver. The mantra wth Sam is lets hold off really grading him out until all of the pieces are there.

    Reality is the Rams were so depleted with talent from horrible drafts and FA siginings that we still are sufferring from that. I just hope Sam survives the continued "rebuild"

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    In hindsight, I have often wondered if Rams drafted a QB ahead of having other key pieces installed to make the QB more effective. Our O line issues have been prevelant and we still have no number 1 receiver. The mantra wth Sam is lets hold off really grading him out until all of the pieces are there.

    Reality is the Rams were so depleted with talent from horrible drafts and FA siginings that we still are sufferring from that. I just hope Sam survives the continued "rebuild"

    No doubt we had (and still have) other personnel issues throughout the roster, but this is a QB driven league. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger are all considered top of the line players. It is no coincidence each of their teams have won at least one SB since they've been there. And Matt Ryan has a chance to be the next one. I cannot fault the Rams for drafting who they thought would be a franchise QB. And while the jury is still out on exactly what Sam Bradford can become, he has shown he can be successful if he is given a respectable surrounding cast.
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    In hindsight, I have often wondered if Rams drafted a QB ahead of having other key pieces installed to make the QB more effective. Our O line issues have been prevelant and we still have no number 1 receiver. The mantra wth Sam is lets hold off really grading him out until all of the pieces are there.

    Reality is the Rams were so depleted with talent from horrible drafts and FA siginings that we still are sufferring from that. I just hope Sam survives the continued "rebuild"
    One thing we need to keep in mind: Having the number 1 overall pick doesn't happen too often. When you've got it, and you need a QB - that's the time to roll the dice. We did, and as you say, not all the key pieces are in place.

    Sam should survive the "rebuild" or "remodel" just fine, as he is going to have the same coaching staff for at least two more years if not much longer. The constant turnover particularly with regard to OCs has not been a positive factor in Bradford's development.
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    No doubt we had (and still have) other personnel issues throughout the roster, but this is a QB driven league. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger are all considered top of the line players. It is no coincidence each of their teams have won at least one SB since they've been there. And Matt Ryan has a chance to be the next one. I cannot fault the Rams for drafting who they thought would be a franchise QB. And while the jury is still out on exactly what Sam Bradford can become, he has shown he can be successful if he is given a respectable surrounding cast.
    I think if Sam is given quality WRs and time to work with them he'll become an elite QB in this league. He's worked with Amendola, our only recognized WR by league standards, for 3 seasons and look at the damage they do together. Bradford works very well with Gibson also, only he needs a lot of time to get separation and not really threat to the defense.

    The only skill that Bradford needs to develop, which takes time with all QBs and requires trust in the OL, is feeling the pressure around him. He needs to step up in the pocket more and become better at sliding to find his throwing lanes. Brees is the ultimate master of this but, as I said before, Bradford needs to have a good offensive line who he can trust. Hopefully using free agency and the draft these needs can be met.

    The other issue is continuity within an offensive system. Those QBs named above spent many seasons with one offensive coordinator, getting comfortable and becoming masters of those systems. I look forward to the year where OTAs, minicamps and training camp aren't spent installing an offensive scheme but instead working on the finer details required to become a top offense in the NFL.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    I think that supporting cast and system continuity are the keys. To see an example of that, all you need to do is look within the division at Alex Smith.

    Early in his career, he went through a series of OCs and had sub-par offensive talent around him. The result? Passer ratings of 40.8, 74.8 and 57.2 in his first three years.

    Now, with a solid O line, some weapons and continuity in the offensive scheme, his passer rating over the last three years: 82.1, 90.7, 102.1.

    Does anyone think that Alex Smith is more talented than Sam Bradford? I certainly don't think he is. In fact, I think Sam has a higher ceiling.

    The Rams have 4 first round picks and a ton of cap room over the next two years. If they spend their personnel capital well, Sam will be fine. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Now, with a solid O line, some weapons and continuity in the offensive scheme, his passer rating over the last three years: 82.1, 90.7, 102.1.
    The biggest change was a new head coach and a more wide open offense. While the ***** did a good job drafting, the players were in place by the time Harbaugh got there. Nolan and Singletary were more concervative than.................. Chuck Knox. The year before Harbaugh arrived Smith didn't even start for the most part.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    The biggest change was a new head coach and a more wide open offense.
    Huh? The Niners run anything but a "wide open offense." In fact, they are first in the NFL in rushing yards per game, while Alex Smith is last in the NFL in pass attempts among starting QBs. I'd say that's a pretty conservative offense, within which Smith is doing his job very well.

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