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Thread: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    One thing we need to keep in mind: Having the number 1 overall pick doesn't happen too often. When you've got it, and you need a QB - that's the time to roll the dice. We did, and as you say, not all the key pieces are in place.

    Sam should survive the "rebuild" or "remodel" just fine, as he is going to have the same coaching staff for at least two more years if not much longer. The constant turnover particularly with regard to OCs has not been a positive factor in Bradford's development.

    Good point Maui.......You never know when you are going to get that opportunity again although having it is not always a positive since it (barring ablockbuster trade) means you were worst team in league in proir season Selfishly, I hope we never draft number 1 again unless we make a trade!!


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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Huh? The Niners run anything but a "wide open offense." In fact, they are first in the NFL in rushing yards per game, while Alex Smith is last in the NFL in pass attempts among starting QBs. I'd say that's a pretty conservative offense, within which Smith is doing his job very well.
    A MORE wide open offense than before. With Singletary it was run, run, pass. Now it's not. Do you remember watching the 9ers with Nolan and Singletary against the Rams? I guess not. Would you agree it's more wide open compared to that?

    Go ahead, take away another point for disagreeing with you. I could care less, it's proven to be a meaningless marker.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    A MORE wide open offense than before. With Singletary it was run, run, pass. Now it's not. Do you remember watching the 9ers with Nolan and Singletary against the Rams? I guess not. Would you agree it's more wide open compared to that?

    Go ahead, take away another point for disagreeing with you. I could care less, it's proven to be a meaningless marker.
    I know... the problem is that I'm a big bully who picks on people for no reason, right?

    It couldn't be that you are talking out of your posterior, could it?

    I mean, its not as if data is readily available on the internet to anyone who bothers to look...

    Its not as if, had you bothered to look, you'd see that, under Harbaugh (2011-2012), the Niners have run the ball 52.4% of the time, while under Singletary (2009-2010), the Niners ran the ball only 42.9% of the time...

    Oh, wait a second... its exactly like that!!!

    The moral of the story: this is not the PD board. Around here, if you make a statement of fact, its a good idea to make sure you're right, because we actually care about the accuracy of the information conveyed on these boards.
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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    A MORE wide open offense than before. With Singletary it was run, run, pass. Now it's not. Do you remember watching the 9ers with Nolan and Singletary against the Rams? I guess not. Would you agree it's more wide open compared to that?

    Go ahead, take away another point for disagreeing with you. I could care less, it's proven to be a meaningless marker.
    Dear MH,

    I understand and appreciate your viewpoint. I do think the Whiners are more dynamic under Harbaugh v. Singletary. But, I see where they are a run first team that truly sets up their passing game (focus on Vernon D.) This run first, smash mouth football has really aided their QB who is having a great year statistically speaking. QB rating over 100 (4th in NFL) and he will most likely pass over 3000 yards....He has a great TD to interception ratio (12/5). Under Singletary they really had no direction and he bumbled it by not establsihing the run first and then pass......Harbaugh has excelled in this regard. I think our coach would love to emulate this style with the Rams.

    BTW, I had a point deduction today from our esteemed mod. I wear it as a badge of honor

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    BTW, I had a point deduction today from our esteemed mod. I wear it as a badge of honor
    live4ramin likes this.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Ha! Thanks.....coming from you it is surely received as a compliment!! Have a great day!

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    It couldn't be that you are talking out of your posterior, could it?
    It's about ego. Yours.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    It's about ego. Yours.
    Oh, cry me a river.

    You made an assertion of fact, and were proven to be wrong.

    Get over it... and yourself.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    So you're going to stick with believing the 9ers are a more conservative offensive team under Harbaugh than they were under Singletary? You're out of your mind. More rushing attempts has zero to do with it. There's a difference between run, run, pass, punt and run, pass, run, 1st down. There's a difference between being predictable and not. Fantasy football and real football are two different things dude.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    So you're going to stick with believing the 9ers are a more conservative offensive team under Harbaugh than they were under Singletary? You're out of your mind. More rushing attempts has zero to do with it. There's a difference between run, run, pass, punt and run, pass, run, 1st down. There's a difference between being predictable and not. Fantasy football and real football are two different things dude.
    You should take your comedy act on the road. You're hilarious.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Maybe it would be more productive if you actually defined what a more "wide open" offense looks like. It almost seems like you're defining "wide open" as meaning "less predictable," but I've never heard it used in that context. When I hear that term, I don't think of the ball-control running gameplan that Harbaugh has been utilizing so far in San Francisco. I think of offenses like Green Bay or New Orleans, the high octane passing teams of the league.

    Av hit the nail on the head when it comes to the numbers - Harbaugh's ***** are attempting fewer pass attempts on average than Singletary's teams did, and they're certainly running the ball on average more than Singletary's ***** did. I doubt you'll find many people who believe a more "wide open" offense means fewer passes and more runs, and as someone who is only now entering this part of the conversation, I can tell you that simply referring to Singletary's offense as being more predictable without much else to demonstrate that or connect that to making him less "wide open" isn't particularly convincing.

    IMO, what Harbaugh is doing right now in San Francisco is similar to what Jeff Fisher has stated he wants to do in St. Louis - utilize a ball-control offense featuring a strong running game while leaning on a tough defense. The difference is, though, is that I believe these teams are running the offense for two different reasons.

    For the Rams, it's because of the talent deficiencies they have around their quarterback - an inconsistent at best offensive line, a lack of stand out receivers (aside from Amendola in the slot), and little help from the tight end.

    Meanwhile, in San Francisco, I think they're running it because of the talent deficiency they have at the quarterback position. Because when you look at San Francisco, I believe they feature one of the best tight ends in the league, some talented players on the offensive line, and while their weapons at receiver aren't phenomenal, they're probably better than any unit the Rams have fielded in a number of years.

    Ultimately, I think Av's initial point was very much on par - while there may have been some other factors, the biggest difference between the Alex Smith of the late 2000s and the Alex Smith of the 2011 and 2012 seasons is better talent around him as well as a competent, stable coaching staff that knows how to build a successful scheme for their quarterback.

    The Rams now have the staff in place, but they need to improve the talent. Once they do that, I expect Sam's numbers will improve, and I also expect the offense to open up more, at least in the sense that they will become a bit less conservative in terms of what they're expecting Bradford to do within the scheme.
    AvengerRam and live4ramin like this.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Maybe it would be more productive if you actually defined what a more "wide open" offense looks like. It almost seems like you're defining "wide open" as meaning "less predictable," but I've never heard it used in that context. When I hear that term, I don't think of the ball-control running gameplan that Harbaugh has been utilizing so far in San Francisco. I think of offenses like Green Bay or New Orleans, the high octane passing teams of the league.

    Av hit the nail on the head when it comes to the numbers - Harbaugh's ***** are attempting fewer pass attempts on average than Singletary's teams did, and they're certainly running the ball on average more than Singletary's ***** did. I doubt you'll find many people who believe a more "wide open" offense means fewer passes and more runs, and as someone who is only now entering this part of the conversation, I can tell you that simply referring to Singletary's offense as being more predictable without much else to demonstrate that or connect that to making him less "wide open" isn't particularly convincing.

    Singletary and Nolan before him ran an extremely convervative offense that was extremely predictable. They handed the ball to Gore. Most of the time that was enough to beat the Rams since our defense was so bad. Gore would gut us right up the middle. Against good teams that wouldn't be enough so they'd have to pass. If you look at onlt rush attempts and pass attempts then it would be easy to say that because they run the ball more now that they are more conservative. However if you watched the 9ers prior to last year against the Rams or anybody else you would clearly see that isn't the case.

    I would guess that like the Rams last year and this year the 9ers wanted to establish Gore early and use their offense as their best defense, to control the ball and keep it out of their opponents hands. I would also guess like the Rams that they ran the ball more in the first half than they did in the 2nd half. Why? Because by half-time they were behind and had no choice but to throw, like the Rams last season. Sound plausable or even probable?

    So yes handind the ball to Gore 1st and 2nd down and then throwing an incomplet pass and punting on 4th down was more conservative and predictable than the offense they ran last year and this year under Harbaugh. Last year and this year the 9ers have more 2nd half leads and don't have to throw the ball as much as they did in prior years. It's certainly not wide open compared to the Packers but it is more wide open than it was before Harbaugh. If you go back and check that is all I said. Numbers are just numbers without context. The fact is that losings teams have to pass the ball more. Not neccessarily because they want to but because they're behind and have no choice. That's becomes predicatable. The other guy came unglued for whatever reason and made this more than it had to be. I suspect it's because I'm not 100% on board the Bradford bandwagen.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    . The other guy came unglued for whatever reason and made this more than it had to be. I suspect it's because I'm not 100% on board the Bradford bandwagen.
    I can assure you that (1) I'm fully glued, and (2) I don't care whether you support Bradford or not.

    That said, if you're going to make a statement that (by the conventional definition of the term you chose to use) is objectively false, and then you insist you're right, I'm going to call you on it.

    Its called accountability. If you can't handle it, well... too bad.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    So yes handind the ball to Gore 1st and 2nd down and then throwing an incomplet pass and punting on 4th down was more conservative and predictable than the offense they ran last year and this year under Harbaugh.
    Except the percentage of rushing attempts Frank Gore had on first and second down under Singletary is not significantly higher than it has been under Harbaugh.

    2009: 207/229 (90.4%)
    2010: 181/203 (89.2%)
    2011: 250/282 (88.7%)
    2012: 108/119 (90.8%)

    If Harbaugh was truly mixing up the playcalling in a significantly different way than Singletary was, I would think those numbers would be further apart. And yet, the highest percentage of first and second down rushing attempts has actually come while under Harbaugh this year, and last year's percentage was less than a point beneath Singletary's lowest mark in 2010. So again, the numbers don't appear to back your argument up IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    Numbers are just numbers without context.
    Well yes, just posting numbers without providing any context doesn't make sense. But neither does just making a vague and unsupported claim and expecting others to buy into it when numbers have been provided that seem to argue the contrary.

    You've yet to really provide anything to back up your argument besides simply saying, "It's obvious if you watch the games." Well, apparently it's not that obvious, because now two of us have questioned your characterization and we've brought numbers to support our side. Do you have anything besides generalizations to support yours?


    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    The other guy came unglued for whatever reason and made this more than it had to be. I suspect it's because I'm not 100% on board the Bradford bandwagen.
    There's really no need for these kind of personal snipes.

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    Re: What does this stat tell us about Sam Bradford?

    Nick,

    Personal swipes?

    If you review the discussion you can clearly see where a "mod" continues to make it personal and does exactly what you say should not be done. Let's all practice a decorum of respect for the individual and if you do not agree belittling makes no sense at all. If you disagree on an opinion or remark, great. But, be respectful.

    A mod that misuses his "authority" is not good for this board.
    mh-i likes this.

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