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  1. #1
    btimsah Guest

    What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    I was hesitant in writing this, because I know how much we've been through over the years with the QB issue. I also understand how many Ram fans cannot stand the "pessimistic" view points to often shared on here. However, this team had 4 wins last season. So here goes..

    When Linehan was first hired my immediate response was - We'll see how good Bulger really is, OUTSIDE OF MARTZ OFFENSE. Any qb in his system (and with the talent we had then) could look abnormally good. Not all schemes are as QB friendly as his was. There have been several times where it appeared to me that Bulger was the problem with (Linehan's) offense and NOT LINEHAN. I remember one play in particular down near the goaline where Bulger goes through his progression and ends up throwing a ball into tripple coverage for an incompletion. What caught my eye was the WIDE OPEN STEPHEN JACKSON over the middle - he could have walked in. This was a progression problem. He went over his available progression's and then just appeared to slam it into the 5th option, NEVER going back to his other options. This is something that he seems to struggle with. He never seems to stand in there a little longer looking over all options before deciding on the best option.

    Now, does anyone remember how many times Bulger would check down to Jackson? Well, On those plays who do you think his last option was? The dump off to Jackson became his blanket. It made me start to think that Bulger almost seems to expect ONE of those options to be wide open and if their not he does not even bother to go back to his other reads and just dumps it off to the last check down. This is what leads him to throw picks, or throw quick checkdown passes to a clearly guarded RB. The primary evidence in my opinion is Linehan. Why does Linehan suddenly suck as a play caller and offensive coordinator? Did he lose it? I just don't buy it. So now we have Al Saunders. I have to ask - What if the offense struggles to score touchdowns this year as well? Is Saunders career (and ability) now down the tube?

    Did anyone notice what happened Saturday night? We moved the ball, however we could not punch it in the end zone. Sound familiar?


  2. #2
    Bar-bq's Avatar
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    However, this team had 4 wins last season. So here goes..
    Seems you're more of an optimist than you think. Three wins, was the total

    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    When Linehan was first hired my immediate response was - We'll see how good Bulger really is, OUTSIDE OF MARTZ OFFENSE. Any qb in his system (and with the talent we had then) could look abnormally good. Not all schemes are as QB friendly as his was.
    Fair, but look at the best quarterbacks in the league in comparison to the worst. The better QB's have been entrenched in a single system with generally one play caller for a signifiant majority of their more succesful years (look at Manning, Warner and Culpepper during their primes, McNabb Favre, Palmer and Brady- though I think Brady's had two). Those QBs who struggle are generally those who get bounced from playcaller to playcaller- scheme to scheme, and can't quite manage to get it going. I'm talking of Carr, Smith and others.

    So, then, was the success of Bulger in the first year of Linehan's regimen simply an anomaly? His best season? Up to your discretion I guess- but consider: he's been bounced between five playcallers- Martz, Linehan (twice), Olson, our OC from Vitt's Tenure and now Saunders- and three offensive schemes. Just food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    There have been several times where it appeared to me that Bulger was the problem with (Linehan's) offense and NOT LINEHAN. I remember one play in particular down near the goaline where Bulger goes through his progression and ends up throwing a ball into tripple coverage for an incompletion. What caught my eye was the WIDE OPEN STEPHEN JACKSON over the middle - he could have walked in. This was a progression problem. He went over his available progression's and then just appeared to slam it into the 5th option, NEVER going back to his other options.
    This is an example of one play. If you want to convince us, you're going to need to provide us with more examples, lest you be hit with Bulgerians and their accounts of the many great plays Bulger has made.


    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    This is something that he seems to struggle with. He never seems to stand in there a little longer looking over all options before deciding on the best option.
    Again, this is fairly sweeping and generic. If you want to pick apart the specifics of Bulger's mechanics and reads then you're going to need to be specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    Now, does anyone remember how many times Bulger would check down to Jackson? Well, On those plays who do you think his last option was? The dump off to Jackson became his blanket.
    It's impossible to determine who specifically the "last option" on said plays were- but if Jackson were the last option, then that discounts all you've had to say about Bulger struggling with his reads. According to the laws of basic numerology, in order to get to the 'last' read, you must first progress through all of those reads which precede it. So if Jackson were the last read, what exactly is the problem with Bulger not going through his reads.


    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    It made me start to think that Bulger almost seems to expect ONE of those options to be wide open and if their not he does not even bother to go back to his other reads and just dumps it off to the last check down.
    Again, the LAST read must, unless it's changed since the last time I checked, come after the FIRST read. In fact, this is the very purpose of having a check down receiver! When you go through all of your reads, and find nobody open, then you 'check it down' to a player typically in the flat who can pick up some kind of positive yardage.

    And that's exactly what Jackson did in 2006. That year, he caught 90 passes for 806 yards at an average of 9.0 ypc, with 7 catches of over 20 yards and 3 touchdowns. Now, this raises the question: If it works- why fix it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    This is what leads him to throw picks, or throw quick checkdown passes to a clearly guarded RB.
    So you're saying that the fact that bulger throws checkdown passes, which exist solely due to the aforementioned concept, leads him to...throw interceptions? The fact that he, acoording to the account you've accurately provided, progresses through his reads in order to reach the last possible target?

    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    The primary evidence in my opinion is Linehan. Why does Linehan suddenly suck as a play caller and offensive coordinator? Did he lose it? I just don't buy it.
    The team lost it last year. 17 different OL combinations. It's why Olson couldn't be successful either, after such a promising finish to 06.

    Quote Originally Posted by bti
    Did anyone notice what happened Saturday night? We moved the ball, however we could not punch it in the end zone. Sound familiar?
    I'm sorry, when did this occur? I believe it is still the pre-season? Don't stress. If we can't produce come the regular season, you'll have thousands in your corner. Me, I'm not ready to throw it all away just yet.

  3. #3
    YodaRam Guest

    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    I was hesitant in writing this, because I know how much we've been through over the years with the QB issue. I also understand how many Ram fans cannot stand the "pessimistic" view points to often shared on here. However, this team had 4 wins last season. So here goes..

    When Linehan was first hired my immediate response was - We'll see how good Bulger really is, OUTSIDE OF MARTZ OFFENSE. Any qb in his system (and with the talent we had then) could look abnormally good. Not all schemes are as QB friendly as his was. There have been several times where it appeared to me that Bulger was the problem with (Linehan's) offense and NOT LINEHAN. I remember one play in particular down near the goaline where Bulger goes through his progression and ends up throwing a ball into tripple coverage for an incompletion. What caught my eye was the WIDE OPEN STEPHEN JACKSON over the middle - he could have walked in. This was a progression problem. He went over his available progression's and then just appeared to slam it into the 5th option, NEVER going back to his other options. This is something that he seems to struggle with. He never seems to stand in there a little longer looking over all options before deciding on the best option.

    Now, does anyone remember how many times Bulger would check down to Jackson? Well, On those plays who do you think his last option was? The dump off to Jackson became his blanket. It made me start to think that Bulger almost seems to expect ONE of those options to be wide open and if their not he does not even bother to go back to his other reads and just dumps it off to the last check down. This is what leads him to throw picks, or throw quick checkdown passes to a clearly guarded RB. The primary evidence in my opinion is Linehan. Why does Linehan suddenly suck as a play caller and offensive coordinator? Did he lose it? I just don't buy it. So now we have Al Saunders. I have to ask - What if the offense struggles to score touchdowns this year as well? Is Saunders career (and ability) now down the tube?

    Did anyone notice what happened Saturday night? We moved the ball, however we could not punch it in the end zone. Sound familiar?
    Interesting stuff, btimsah. But before i consider your thoughts here, could you tell me when we picked up our 4TH WIN last year?

    No offense. ........It's just that i think that "truly" concerned Rams fans are fully aware that we only won 3 regular season games last year. It makes me question the "motives" of your post.

    bar-bq, i see that "you're all over it"! I'm out!



    RAM ON!
    Last edited by YodaRam; -08-18-2008 at 04:38 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    Quote Originally Posted by YodaRam View Post
    No offense. ........It's just that i think that "truly" concerned Rams fans are fully aware that we only won 3 regular season games last year. It makes me question the "motives" of your post.
    I think I pipped you by one minute

  5. #5
    YodaRam Guest

    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bar-bq View Post
    I think I pipped you by one minute
    It'S ALL GOOD!





    RAM ON!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    I was hesitant in writing this, because I know how much we've been through over the years with the QB issue. I also understand how many Ram fans cannot stand the "pessimistic" view points to often shared on here. However, this team had 4 wins last season. So here goes..

    When Linehan was first hired my immediate response was - We'll see how good Bulger really is, OUTSIDE OF MARTZ OFFENSE. Any qb in his system (and with the talent we had then) could look abnormally good. Not all schemes are as QB friendly as his was. There have been several times where it appeared to me that Bulger was the problem with (Linehan's) offense and NOT LINEHAN. I remember one play in particular down near the goaline where Bulger goes through his progression and ends up throwing a ball into tripple coverage for an incompletion. What caught my eye was the WIDE OPEN STEPHEN JACKSON over the middle - he could have walked in. This was a progression problem. He went over his available progression's and then just appeared to slam it into the 5th option, NEVER going back to his other options. This is something that he seems to struggle with. He never seems to stand in there a little longer looking over all options before deciding on the best option.

    Now, does anyone remember how many times Bulger would check down to Jackson? Well, On those plays who do you think his last option was? The dump off to Jackson became his blanket. It made me start to think that Bulger almost seems to expect ONE of those options to be wide open and if their not he does not even bother to go back to his other reads and just dumps it off to the last check down. This is what leads him to throw picks, or throw quick checkdown passes to a clearly guarded RB. The primary evidence in my opinion is Linehan. Why does Linehan suddenly suck as a play caller and offensive coordinator? Did he lose it? I just don't buy it. So now we have Al Saunders. I have to ask - What if the offense struggles to score touchdowns this year as well? Is Saunders career (and ability) now down the tube?

    Did anyone notice what happened Saturday night? We moved the ball, however we could not punch it in the end zone. Sound familiar?
    This debunks your entire argument:

    370-588, 62.9%, 4301 yards, 24 TD, 8 INT, 92.9 Rate

    That was in 2006, under Linehan, an absolutely fantastic season ...

    That is one of the lowest INT rates in NFL history for someone attempting that amount of passes ....

    I don't understand how those statistics can be related to "struggling" in anyway. Last season was an anomaly. Bulger is a little shell shocked right now. He will be fine ...
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -08-18-2008 at 08:56 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    "This is something that he seems to struggle with. He never seems to stand in there a little longer looking over all options before deciding on the best option.
    "

    Sorry, but When in the last few years has Bulger had "time" to go back through his reads "again", much less through the first set.

    Martz's system (in my opinion) destroyed Kurt, and severely damaged Bulger's confidence when passing. Happy feet and indecision being the rsult of being pummeled. A lot of this was our poor line play, and injuries, but the slowly developing routes didnt help. The poor line play and some of the deeper pass routes continued with linehan. Marc's gun shy, and I dont blame him. His uncanny ability to read zones and place the ball accurately has been hindered due to lack of confidence and fear of being blindsided. Its obvious if you watch his progression (regression) over the last few years. Give him some time, and some protection over a few games, and his natural ability will come back hopefully. I'm sure its on an individual basis, people handle adversity in different ways. Hopefully Marc can find his natural timing again given proper protection and good routes by his receivers.

  8. #8
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    What if C-A-T really spelled "dog"?
    And you thought Mike Martz was "mad"!

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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    Seems like kind of a weak argument since Bulger had arguably his best season under Linehan in 2006.

  10. #10
    VegasRam's Avatar
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    I like Bulger (see Avatar), but admit to being guilty of a few "WTF's" in watching him these last two games. 10 for 23, 3 INTs and roughly 100 yards flat sucks.

    I'm hoping (read praying) that it's the "getting used to Saunders new scheme as it pertains to timing and the WRs and QB being on the same page " problem as explained in another thread.

    Thast said, I have a hard time arguing in his favor at this point, despite previous accomplishments.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  11. #11
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilXenu View Post
    What if C-A-T really spelled "dog"?
    That's deep, Ogre.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  12. #12
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    We'll see how good Bulger really is, OUTSIDE OF MARTZ OFFENSE. Any qb in his system (and with the talent we had then) could look abnormally good. Not all schemes are as QB friendly as his was. There have been several times where it appeared to me that Bulger was the problem with (Linehan's) offense and NOT LINEHAN.

    Are you kidding me Bulge had a great year in 2006 as previously mention.....

    Martz system is QB friendly.... Sure if you like to be hit over and over again.....

    What caught my eye was the WIDE OPEN STEPHEN JACKSON over the middle - he could have walked in

    This happens all the time in the league. If you ever played football you will know that the QB has a small window of opportunity to make a decision and wide open WR, RB's are often missed even the greats ones like Marino, Montana, and so on ...

    He never seems to stand in there a little longer looking over all options before deciding on the best option.

    If only it was that simple. QB's have very little time and Bulger gets hit enough the last thing he needs to do is hold on to that ball any longer than needed. Staying in the pocket to make a play has never been a knock on Bulger.

    What caught my eye was the WIDE OPEN STEPHEN JACKSON over the middle - he could have walked in. This was a progression problem. He went over his available progression's and then just appeared to slam it into the 5th option, NEVER going back to his other options.

    In this league you do not have enough time to look at 5 options and to think you can actually go back to the other options is unrealistic. Not even Tom Brady and the protection he had last year gave him that kind of time...... I'm not trying to be rude but obviously you know very little about the QB postion.

    Did anyone notice what happened Saturday night? We moved the ball, however we could not punch it in the end zone. Sound familiar?

    R U kidding. Wait to see when we have the startes in with a game plan then if the Rams struggle you can fairly evaluate....
    Last edited by Dominating D; -08-18-2008 at 01:57 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    In my opinion, Bulger's got 65 million reasons to play better, effective immediately. Gunshy or not, his production is mandatory. No excuses will be accepted after this week.

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    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    ... lest you be hit with Bulgerians.

    Priceless!




    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    In my opinion, Bulger's got 65 million reasons to play better, effective immediately. Gunshy or not, his production is mandatory. No excuses will be accepted after this week.
    My sentiments exactly. 65 million reasons. NO excuses. Wonder what TG cost us?

  15. #15
    btimsah Guest

    Re: What If The Problem Has Been Bulger, Not Linehan?

    I was wrong. I viewed the 2006 season a failure. I did not realize he had such good stats. I guess we really did have a good year then.

    In my opinion this is an important year for Bulger. And indeed the organization. If he and inevitably the team fails, will anyone have the fortitude to make a tough decision? Because the inability to correctly assess the overall talent and ability of this team is EXACTLY what got us to 3 wins last season.

    I just hope it doesnt continue.

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