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  1. #1
    RamWraith's Avatar
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    What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Hall traded to Rams for 5th round pick

    (Thanks CumberlandRam for gathering the information)

    Quote:
    We couldnt get anything higher than a 5th rounder?


    Quote:
    No he was going to be released so he had no leverage. Also players never get a high draft pick in trades. Also, he hasn't been healthy in what 2 years. What else do you want?


    Quote:
    w0w, we go from a great trade to a rather sucky trade IMO. Is this comfirmed? How many 5ths do we need? Now we will have 4 players to cut by practice squad, or get lucky and get someone like Scott. But this draft is not that deep.


    Quote:
    Love how we're trading away talented team captains for mediocre players and late round draft picks.

    What is up with Millen and the 5th round?


    Quote:
    I'm actually surprised that they got anything for him. The Lions were going to release him by 4 PM today to avoid paying his $500K roster bonus.


    Quote:
    Wait, I've got to look at things more positive. We did trade an undrafted FA for a 5th round pick - GJ Matt!


    Quote:
    Why are we complaining? we were going to cut Hall if he wasn't traded. Hall didn't fit in and was going making too much money than what he is worth. Plus when was he last healthy? Also he hasn't done nothing since he signed his cotract. He has had 5 sacks for the last 2 year. That isn't what you want from a starting DE.


    Quote:
    Getting a 5th rounder for a guy you were going to release anyway is a no brainer.


    Quote:
    The guy shouldn't have been considered in the release category. So what, $500K bonus for a guy who can get you 8-10 sacks a year on average? Whoop dee doo. Unless Millen has Angelo and Smith in his back pocket telling him who to draft, this was an AWFUL trade.

    Rams just got a quality pass rusher for absolutely nothing


    Quote:
    I guess its better than getting nothing, but I still think he should have gotten another chance. Marinelli is supposed to be some "D-Line Guru", but he couldn't coach up Hall? I think we should have kept him. Millen is just covering his rectum because he wasted a boatload of money on Kalimba Edwards. Edwards had the big squadousch in sacks this year. Now its apparent we have to take DE in the draft. No other pick would make any sense at #2.


    Quote:
    when did he last give us 8-10 sacks and how many time? Over 2 season ago and only once. Not that great of a player.


    Quote:
    He had 5 before he was injured last season...in what, the 5th game?

    The guy was a URFA who was just starting to blossom and come to his prime and we traded him. It was a stupid move, nothing else to say.


    Quote:
    I agree with that... but allegedly James Hall wasn't a "Marinelli player" whatever the hell that means...

    Good trade in that we were going to cut him anyhow, but still, IMO, cutting him was a mistake. I would have rather kept Hall as a character/leadership guy, and still drafted a stud DE...

    In any event... hopefully we'll package some of these picks and move up in the draft, or pawn them off into next years picks... I really don't see us turning our this years fifths into next years fourths, ext... but I would like to move up and get more mid-round picks.


    Quote:
    And 5 the year after he signed his contract. He seems also to have some injuries. Plus is he 30 so he is getting up there in age so he may be pasted his prime soon. He never has been too productive beside in his contract year. He is a good run stopping De but not a great pass rusher.


    Quote:
    What sucks is... if this were 2-3 years ago we could have used 4 5th round picks to add the mid-level talented depth that we've been lacking... Now we seem to have tons of mid-level talent and need to add some top quality, and we're in the exact opposite situation....


    Quote:
    He's usually double teamed by the LT and the RB on pass plays...not to mention that he made Walter Jones look pretty rough in the season opener. He also sustained a minor injury in that game that lingered on throughout the season...he wasn't at full power after that game.

    A fifth for a guy who can make Walter Jones look bad is an awful trade and nothing will make me change my mind. He shouldn't even have been considered being released to save $500K...even $1.5M. They're going to replace him with who? White? Gimme a break.


    Quote:
    Besides one game what has he been in his career besides his contract year? Nothing look at the facts. Good De beat double teams. If I am correct Jones had an ankle injury that game. If not so what. One game doesn't prove anything.


    Year Team...........G...Total...Tkl...Ast...Sacks. Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
    2000 Detroit Lions 5.... 3..... 2.0 1.........1..... 0.. 0... 0.0.. 0.. 0..... 1
    2001 Detroit Lions 15...35... 26.0... 9..... 4.... 0.. 0... 0.0.. 0.. 0..... 1
    2002 Detroit Lions 16...49... 34.0.. 15..... 2.... 0.. 0.. 0.0... 0.. 0..... 3
    2003 Detroit Lions 16...59... 45.0.. 14.....4.5.... 0.. 0.. 0.0... 0.. 0..... 0
    2004 Detroit Lions 16...48... 38.0.. 10....11.5.... 1 30 30.0 30. 0..... 4
    2005 Detroit Lions 14...59... 51.0... 8..... 5.... ..0... 0 0.0.... 0.. 0..... 1
    2006 Detroit Lions 7.... 24... 17.0... 7.....5..... 0... 0 0.0.... 0.. 0..... 0

    Quote:
    Hall has had 1 season with more than 5 sacks!!!!

    Kalimba has had 2 season with more than 5 sacks......and everyone complains that he doesn't produce. Kalimba has 23 sacks in his 5 year career as a part-time player.

    Hall has 33 career sacks in 8 years..........including 26 sacks in the same 5 years as Kalimba has played.....and he is on the field more.


    Am I saying that Kalimba is better?

    NO.


    BUT I find it interesting that Hall is viewed as a productive or talented player despite the fact that he has had only 1 good year.

    Perhaps being the "home grown" player has gven him a favorable image here in Detroit???

    Quote:
    Marinelli is supposed to be some "D-Line Guru", but he couldn't coach up Hall?

    Remember the OTA incident last year?

    We didn't get many details about it..........but perhaps that had something to do with Hall moving on.

    Perhaps Hall didn't put in the work that Marinelli expects?


    We don't know........so how can we say if this guy is buying into the new system?

    BUT......you can't turn a losing atmosphere into a winner if you let the same attitude persist. So IF Hall wasn't buying into the new staff and their expectations......then he needed to go.
    _________________
    "Discipline is not a coat where you come in the office and you put your discipline coat on and you put it in the closet and you walk home.

    The thing I learned from coach Dungy that just burns in my mind; ?we have no excuses or explanations, we just have standards.?


    Quote:
    Why is getting something - especially a draft pick - for somone that doesn't want to play in Detroit any more such a bad thing?

    Regardless of skill or value to the Lions, Hall got permission to seek a trade. I don't think he went to Marinelli and expressed his unhappiness and Marinelli said "Ah, yeah I understand. Call your agent and see what you can work out around the league." I think they tried to talk him out of it. (Bly as well for that matter.)

    In the end, if a player doesn't want to be on the team then Detroit has to get rid of him. In the case of both Hall and Bly the Lions at least got something of value - no matter how minimal people think it is - for players they were going to get rid of. The teams that got them didn't have to get into a bidding war with other teams. Everyone's happy in Detroit, Denver, and St. Louis.


    Quote:
    Personally, I was surprised that they asked Hall to seek a trade. I wouldn't have done it myself, so I think there had to be other reasons behind that decision. While I don't think he is great, I still view him as a solid player and now the Lions have yet another hole to fill. As I said earlier in this thread, I'm just glad that they were able to get something for him in a trade instead of just releasing him.

    FYI, this move just freed up $2.45M of salary cap space (if the report of a $500K roster bonus is accurate). If you combine this deal with the Bly trade, the Lions gained either $3.77M or $5.37M of cap room, depending upon what Foster's base salary actually is.


    Quote:
    I heard that he had a problem with Millen which I think doesn't matter, but was also the team repr. to the league so he was the one to submit the complain about the practices. Also to me he hasn't been that good since he got paid. I would had prefer they kept him but I am not sad he is gone. i believe that his production can easily be replaced and for a cheapier price.


    Quote:
    I don't get the entire "we were going to cut him" argument. The assumption is that cutting him was inevitable anyways. We just got rid of 2 defensive veterans who were quality...quality enough that other teams knowing they would be cut traded for them because they knew they would go fast. That tells you something.

    To get 2 players and a 5th round upgrade for a guy you are cutting tells you Bly was coveted around the league period. And a 5th rounder for someone who it was written about last week that was getting cut straight up is a lot...had people in our organization kept their mouth shut maybe we could have gotten a real deal.

    The same people defending this deal are some of the ones saying we need to upgrade our defense and especially our defensive line??? So how does it make sense to cut a quality DE like Hall when we were looking to add another DE? And how many teams were mentioned in the Bly sweepstakes??? All of them much better than us as well...

    It's like we are having an estate sale. I have no problem with Millen and Nellie thinning out the team...but competitors like Bly and Hall were some of the few quality players we had and other teams are eating them up. Outside of potentially opening up cap room this really doesn't make tons of sense to me...unless we are in complete rebuilding mode which is the only explantion I can think of...it's not like Hall can be considered a malconent and whoever suggested Hall wanted off the team was wrong...the team went to him and Bly and told them to find trades.


    Quote:
    What make Hall so good? His stats have been posted and show he has gotten more than 5 sacks once. As phunnypharm said Edwards has been just as effective as Hall as a part time player


    Quote:
    Okay jrlax, you can take Edwards for his price tag, and I'll take Hall for his price tag...and we'll see who comes out the better bang for the buck.


    AND THE WINNER IS:

    James Hall



    Plus, Hall plays where he matches up against much better pass protecting OTs and does a damn good job. Bryant McKinnie, Walter Jones, John Tait, etc. He's done good jobs against all the these players...whereas a guy like Edwards who is given every chance to succeed...rarely gets it done and shows that he has no moves and relies on speed.


    Quote:
    I loved Hall because he gave it every thing he had on every play but iin all honesty he was an overachiever that on the open market didn't hold a lot of value. Detroit fans expected more for him because he was one of the few guys that showed up every week but on a different team I don't know if he would of drawn as much recognition as he sis in Detroit. Iwas hoping a 4th rounder but maybe they can turn it into something of value either this year or next year.


    Quote:
    Hall wasn't wanted, costed too much in (Millen and Marinelli mind) so we got rid of him and got a pick with it. That how the NFL is. Plus Hall has been injuried and has only 1 season where he had more than 5 sacks. SO no matter how good you thought he was against the top OT, most teams wouldn't take that production out of their top DE. Name a team that will?


    Quote:
    Actually I was told, fwiw, that Bly and Hall wanted out. They were just tired of the losing and so Marinelli and Millen accomodated them.


    Quote:
    well considering we were going to cut him a 5th is good.

    As far as him not being a Marrinelli type guy I have mixxed feelings..he wastn athletic enough for the Tampa 2 but he did have the motor, atleats in games...but maybe he didnt shwo up in practice


    Quote:
    When has Hall averaged that many sacks in a two year period? Answer: NEVER. He got 11.5 in one year, just before he signed his big contract. He's done jack since then. I would have liked to get more than a fifth round pick, that's for sure. But something is better than nothing. Remember, the Bears got Mark Anderson in the fifth round last year. And though you may say last seasons draft class was deeper, it wasn't at that position by any means. More fifth round picks could give us ammo to move up into the 3rd and 4th rounds.


    Quote:
    He can when healthy. That's his problem. Last year, I have no doubt in my mind he would have been in the 10-11 sack range if he had stayed healthy. Whether he wanted to work and compete isn't the question, we're talking about his ability and talent. He is a guy that can get 8-10 sacks on average. His contract year (in addition, the only year I believe he was fully healthy), he did extremely well. He had nagging injuries in 2005 and had an excellent start to 2006 before he got hurt.


  2. #2
    Rambos's Avatar
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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Sounds like most think they did not get a return for Hall. Can he stay healthy, if he does playing with little he should produce. He got 5 sack in 7 games thats 3 more then we got from all other DE that played with Little. He should be a nice up grade at the right price.

  3. #3
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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    If he can stay healthy, this might make us contenders in the week NFC.

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Quote Originally Posted by chipperjones View Post
    If he can stay healthy, this might make us contenders in the week NFC.
    1 marginal upgrade on our D-line is not going to make us contenders. Let's not try to fool ourselves.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Rams: 1
    Lions: 0

    Great deal and with a few more peices we will be contenders, but not Hall on his own.

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Guys, honestly...If we're going to be contenders, for this year, I think we should place our bets with Tony Softli and not this year's free agency. I have my doubts that we'll pick up a real great player through free agency or a trade. I think our main focus is always going to be success, and the only way we're going to do that is have a successful draft. Hopefully Softli is the answer to our recent draft busts. I think last year's draft was improved from the MM era's draft picks for defense. We're an up and coming team, but unfortunately, we're not going to pick up any miracle free agents.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Interesting to note he has given Walter Jones trouble!

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    I think that the defense has to be helped in free agency because their is no way the defense will take the steps that we need simply through the draft. A DT has to be signed at some point and some point soon.

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    I think both sides benefited. The Lions wanted to get rid of him anyway, so insted of nothing, they got a 5th round pick. The Rams wanted him pretty badly, so insted of taking a chance and letting someone else go after him (not that deep in DEs in free agency), why not trade a lower pick? Didn't we get a 5th rounder from Buffalo anyway for Hargrove?

  10. #10
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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Keenum View Post
    I think both sides benefited. The Lions wanted to get rid of him anyway, so insted of nothing, they got a 5th round pick. The Rams wanted him pretty badly, so insted of taking a chance and letting someone else go after him (not that deep in DEs in free agency), why not trade a lower pick? Didn't we get a 5th rounder from Buffalo anyway for Hargrove?
    Yeah we did get a 5th rounder for Hargrove,so in a round-about way you could say we traded Hargrove for Hall which falls better on us IMO..:l

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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Quote Originally Posted by 81~BIG-GAME View Post
    Yeah we did get a 5th rounder for Hargrove,so in a round-about way you could say we traded Hargrove for Hall which falls better on us IMO..:l
    I think it was a good trade. Is Hall going to be the answer?; maybe , maybe not, but he adds quality veteran depth which we needed.
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Rams just got a quality pass rusher for absolutely nothing
    cant argue with that!

  13. #13
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    Re: What Lion fans are saying about the Hall trade

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMMAN68 View Post
    I think it was a good trade. Is Hall going to be the answer?; maybe , maybe not, but he adds quality veteran depth which we needed.
    Only time will tell,but IMO his signing is a step in the right direction..:l

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