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    What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to the

    What is really driving me nuts about the Bulger situation is that Scott Linehan, a guy who has ZERO chance of participating in the future of this team, has made a decision that has potentially far reaching long term implications to the franchise.

    Marc Bulger is still relatively young for a qb. He certainly has three to five years of productive peak performance in him IF (and i agree with the Rams its a big IF)he has a functional offensive line. If he doesnt have a functional offensive line, of course he will be lousy, but so will any other qb.

    When we look at how we rebuild this team, something that linehan will have no part of, why should bulger be on the outside looking in? Why should bulger be alienated from the franchise. Why should he be a scapegoat just to try and prolong by a few weeks at most the duration of the Linehan era.

    This would be a different discussion if Bulger was benched in favor of a young qb. Trent Green is obviously not a solution to any perceived qb issues. The rams have a TON of problems. Bulger isnt one of them.

    In the first two games, bulger was sacked 10 times and was constantly killed and under pressure. I dont care how bad anyone thinks he was (and why doesnt anyone want to discuss holt's dropped td catch or his drop on the deep out), you dont bench your 65 million franchise qb after a bad game or two. There is no way in the world that makes any kind of sense for the long term prospects of the organization.

    Bad enough that Linehan has helped contribute to the disastrous situation we now find ourselves in. A lot of those problems were created with bad drafting and personnel decisions before scott arrived. However, the damage that he may welll be doing by benching Bulger on his way out the door is likely to have far reaching consequences.

    Almost as troubling to me (regardless of the public story) is my suspicion that al saunders is part of this decision. I hope i am wrong about that, since i think its likely that saunders is the next coach (or at least the interim coach because i think that linehan is gone if we lose this week). Green is his guy and if saunders has the view that bulger is not part of the long term solution, but rather is part of the problem, i think that is an awful view.

    IF green does well this weekend, its going to be in large part a function of better offensive line play (Including the return of jacob bell), better play from the receivers (including avery into the lineup and holt making the tough catches) and a big contribution from Jackson.

    The QB is like the president. He gets too much credit when things go well, and too much blame when they dont. Blaming the rams offensive problems on bulger and benching him under these circumstances is just ridiculous. If you look at bulgers history and his numbers, its quite clear that with any kind of protection, he is an all-pro caliber guy. Is it bulgers fault that the powers that be signed bennett, who has been a bust and let bruce go, leaving Bulger (when he does have a second to throw without getting killed) with a double or triple teamed holt or looker/hall to throw to when for some reason the coach wont incorporate the rookies into the game plan?

    Lets talk timing. Avery was out all pre season. Burton is hurt. Looker and Hall have proven over the years that they are obviously not starting caliber guys. People (Like the idiot tv guys) talk about bulgers accuracy being off. I am not saying bulger has been at his best, but i will tell you that throwing is about rhythm and timing. We have no rhythm because of the lack of pass protection and consistent running game. We are constantly in third and long and our false starts are ridiculous. Our timing is all messed up because we lack consistency at the reciever position and because the guys playing (looker and hall) lack nfl receiver skills (speed and route running).

    Bottom line on all of this. The rams need to make major changes to return to prominence. Part of that will be a new coach. Everyone agrees that offensive and defensive line play is the key component of success in the nfl (or any level of football for that matter) and this is an areas where the Rams need dramatic improvement. By taking the action that he has with Bulger, Linehan (and possibly saunders) have somehow come to the conclusion that the qb position needs to be part of the rebuilding process as well. Not only is that decision dramatically premature (a couple of games) and clearly not supported by the players, but it is being made by a desparate man trying to save his own butt who has zero interest in the long term future of the team because he knows he isnt going to be a part of it.

    Ramming speed to all

    general counsel



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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    my prediction...Linehan will go on monday and Bulger will be restored to the starting line-up.

    am not a huge Bulger fan but he is clearly our best option at QB at this point...never thought id say this but winning this week could be bad for the rams in the long run,if they win then Linehan will probably remain in power for the rest of the season and i dread to think what long term damage he could do in that time.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    We can only hope Linehan is gone monday. I mean, as bad as this may sound, I will go with most predictions and say Linehan and Haslette are gone on monday if we get blown out. So, I won't be rooting for the Bills....but...if it leads to Linehan and Haslette getting fired, I am all for a Bills victory.

    Call me a bad fan, whatever. We need off this sinking ship. If the ship needs to take one more bad hit for the captain to fly off deck, I'm holding on to whatever I can to stay on the ship as we take that hit.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Excellent post GC. Loserhan is proving to the single biggest mistake in Rams history. Not only are the fans taking notice of all of his terrible personal decisions, but the players seem to be getting upset with him as well. How could anyone justify releasing Hedgecock for Owens, decling to resign Adam Timerman, not putting up the extra one million to resign Bruce, cutting Fakhir Brown instead of trading him and the benching of Marc Bulger. The man has to go before he can do any more damage. I just hope that Trent Green makes it out of the game alive.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    GC, to be honest, the way we've been playing I really doubt we are going to beat a hungry Bills team even if we play well. My biggest fear is the fact that Trent Green is more prone to getting a serious injury than Marc Bulger. And honestly, the line will more than likely give up atleast 2 or 3 sacks. Not to mention the pressure he'll be facing. But what if he does get hurt and he has to leave the game? Do we go back to Bulger? How can we? He himself said he doesn't want to play for Linehan anymore, and at week 4 this is just awful.

    If I were Chip, I'd fire Linehan after this loss, no matter how valiant the loss may be. I'd get Dick Vermeil to be an interim head coach, he has a heart of a saint and the way one of his franchises turned out I'd be shocked to see him decline an offer to coach the rest of the season. He just needs to help out the team now when we need someone like him the most.

    This team needs changes but not just throwing darts changes like Linehan has done, changes that are sophisticated and that make sense. Bulger and Brown do not make any sense to me whatsoever unless of course Linehan wants the whole team to be against him, then he has succeeded.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    The QB is like the president. He gets too much credit when things go well, and too much blame when they dont. Blaming the rams offensive problems on bulger and benching him under these circumstances is just ridiculous. If you look at bulgers history and his numbers, its quite clear that with any kind of protection, he is an all-pro caliber guy. Is it bulgers fault that the powers that be signed bennett, who has been a bust and let bruce go, leaving Bulger (when he does have a second to throw without getting killed) with a double or triple teamed holt or looker/hall to throw to when for some reason the coach wont incorporate the rookies into the game plan?
    I look at this a little differently. The quarterback is like the president. He takes a lot of the blame when things go wrong...but he's often the last guy to lose his job/get benched because more expendable individuals take the fall first. You look at the offensive line, and Goldberg will be replaced by Bell if he's healthy. Technically, that's not a benching, but for all practical purposes a starter on the line from last game will be on the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if Romberg gets put in over Lechey if Romberg is healthy, but that's not exactly headline news. We've gone through numerous different o-line combinations since this time last year. These guys get benched, and Linehan is said to be "shuffling the offensive line". Bulger gets benched and it's "a slap in the face".

    The receivers aren't getting a pass, either. Dane Looker is getting replaced in the starting lineup by the rookie Donnie Avery. Dane seems like a good guy. He works hard. Is he a starting quality receiver at this point? Probably not. It's not a slap in the face. We just need to try something different to get the offense rolling, and Avery brings the kind of speed we haven't had out there.

    Bulger, for all the good that he has done in the past, doesn't seem to be getting it done lately. Maybe it is because he doesn't trust his offensive line. Maybe he needs to make quicker decisions. Maybe he just needs to make better decisions. Maybe he isn't on the the same page with his offensive coordinator or his head coach. Who knows? The point is that we can't win like this. We spent two draft picks in the first four rounds of the draft on receivers. We tried to sign Faneca for the offensive line, and then we went out and got the next best lineman available. We brought in LeCharles Bentley for a workout to see if he would be in good enough shape to start for us. Even at tight end, we've worked to improve the position, bringing in McMichael and then Becht to replace Linehan's own pick of Klopfenstein. We have been bringing in guys to challenge for just about every other starting position on the offense. When finally the team decides to do the same with the quarterback position, suddenly it's all different and the guy is getting scapegoated?
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -09-27-2008 at 11:56 AM.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    I would definitely not have a problem with the QB change if Bulger was replaced by a rookie, or 2-year. I think it was a bad idea even bringing in Trent Green (I know, he did great with Saunders, but do they really think this is the same Trent Green?). Then to bench Bulger, to put in Green? Not only that, but Trent could get seriously screwed up this game and I imagine Green only came back this year because he didn't want to end his career with a third-degree concussion, but that could very well happen again this Sunday.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    I look at this a little differently. The quarterback is like the president. He takes a lot of the blame when things go wrong...but he's often the last guy to lose his job/get benched because more expendable individuals take the fall first. You look at the offensive line, and Goldberg will be replaced by Bell if he's healthy. Technically, that's not a benching, but for all practical purposes a starter on the line from last game will be on the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if Romberg gets put in over Lechey if Romberg is healthy, but that's not exactly headline news. We've gone through numerous different o-line combinations since this time last year. These guys get benched, and Linehan is said to be "shuffling the offensive line". Bulger gets benched and it's "a slap in the face".

    The receivers aren't getting a pass, either. Dane Looker is getting replaced in the starting lineup by the rookie Donnie Avery. Dane seems like a good guy. He works hard. Is he a starting quality receiver at this point? Probably not. It's not a slap in the face. We just need to try something different to get the offense rolling, and Avery brings the kind of speed we haven't had out there.

    Bulger, for all the good that he has done in the past, doesn't seem to be getting it done lately. Maybe it is because he doesn't trust his offensive line. Maybe he needs to make quicker decisions. Maybe he just needs to make better decisions. Maybe he isn't on the the same page with his offensive coordinator or his head coach. Who knows? The point is that we can't win like this. We spent two draft picks in the first four rounds of the draft on receivers. We tried to sign Faneca for the offensive line, and then we went out and got the next best lineman available. We brought in LeCharles Bentley for a workout to see if he would be in good enough shape to start for us. Even at tight end, we've worked to improve the position, bringing in McMichael and then Becht to replace Linehan's own pick of Klopfenstein. The point is that we have been bringing in guys to challenge for just about every other starting position on the offense. When finally the team decides to do the same with the quarterback position, suddenly it's all different and the guy is getting scapegoated?
    You dont find it funny that Loserhan decides to start Green the same week Bell comes back,the same week he makes huge changes on defense and the same week he decides to also start Avery? If you dont want to believe the Bulger was the scapegoat that's fine but he was. Just like GC said it's all about timing in this offense and with looker and Hall running around out there and the swiss cheese o-line there are too many things going wrong to get into a rythem. I have seen Marc start to get into a rythem and guess what happens, yep a penalty. Then right after that a sack, next thing you know it's 3rd and 17. Tough to win games when your facing that many different things as a qb. Seems like everytime we have gotten a big play from Bulger the very next play is either a sack or a penalty or a dropped pass. Loserhan and this coaching staff is the worst I have ever seen. This team has not looked prepared to play in any game so far this year which is why they are getting stomped into the ground. Will Green help all these problems? No, he wont but he gets a much faster shiftier and energized wr to work with as a starter and Bulger did not get that luxury.

    If the Rams win this weekend the longterm impact could be terrible for this team. Everyone will look at the Bulger benching as the key to victory. When in fact it could be the defensive changes or just adding Avery opposite of Holt that made it easier on the qb. There is no future in Trent Green, and Bulger still has a lot of football in him.
    Last edited by rammiser; -09-27-2008 at 12:05 PM.
    Just Fix It

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    I would have preferred to see the changes made to the line and receivers BEFORE a move was made at the QB spot. It would have caused significantly less disruption in the locker room, and we would have a better idea of Bulger's/Green's ability to run this offense, this season.

    I agree with everyone, Green is not a long term solution. At this point we don't know if he's any kind of solution at all.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Ok I'm going to try & play a lil devils advocate here. Please keep in mind I do not support Linehan or Haslett, I want them both gone asap. But what did you want out of Linehan after a 0-3 start, yes this is a desperate man trying to save his job & I would hope he would shakeup the team anyway he can even if it means unfavorable moves to the fans. The benching of Bulger just might be due to Linehan, Saunders & Bulger clashing. Maybe Bulger behind the scenes has an attitude problem with the both of them & is practicing his eye rolling more than he should be.
    Bottom line is Linehan is the head coach until let go & if any player is not on the same page as the coaching staff no matter how right or wrong they may be, they need to go out & compete to the best of their ability & if not your job is on the line. It's called tough love boys, like it or not that's the way it needs to be & should have been done from the beginning. What do you think will happen when a new GM comes in (please clean house when changes are made) & a new head coach, there will be moves that us as fan will not like. Please be open minded to that & ready for it ,cuz this team has a magnitude of problems.
    Now GC have have nothing but respect for you & agree with you that Bulger is in no way the problem or that with Trent starting is going to fix anything, But what did you expect from this coaching staff at this point?
    On a side note I would have shaken the living crap out of this OL if I was in Linehan's shoes, would have made at least 2 changes here & for the life of me I don't know why he hasn't addressed that yet.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Personally, I think this has to do with Bulger's attitude. I'm unsure as to why so many fans seem to have blinders for this. From my view, this indifferent attitude is having a negative effect on his play. After last week it was evident to me that this is more than just an offensive line problem.

    As far as long term impacts, I think those things will be worked out with continued change. I think Bulger could benefit from some soul searching if his psyche is somehow overly bruised by this. IMO it's all part of the life maturity process.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIG-BLUE
    But what did you want out of Linehan after a 0-3 start, yes this is a desperate man trying to save his job & I would hope he would shakeup the team anyway he can even if it means unfavorable moves to the fans. The benching of Bulger just might be due to Linehan, Saunders & Bulger clashing. Maybe Bulger behind the scenes has an attitude problem with the both of them & is practicing his eye rolling more than he should be.
    Bottom line is Linehan is the head coach until let go & if any player is not on the same page as the coaching staff no matter how right or wrong they may be, they need to go out & compete to the best of their ability & if not your job is on the line. It's called tough love boys, like it or not that's the way it needs to be & should have been done from the beginning.
    I could not agree more.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    You dont find it funny that Loserhan decides to start Green the same week Bell comes back,the same week he makes huge changes on defense and the same week he decides to also start Avery?
    No, I don't. Some people seem to see this as a deliberate attempt to take Bulger out just at the moment he would finally have the chance to succeed. I see the benching of Bulger as one move in a series of sweeping changes to try to get the team winning games. I don't think all of this is directed right at Bulger. It's not personal; it's business. If Linehan doesn't start winning games, he's out of here. Even if he does start winning, his job may already be lost, but he has to do something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Personally, I think this has to do with Bulger's attitude. I'm unsure as to why so many fans seem to have blinders for this. From my view, this indifferent attitude is having a negative effect on his play. After last week it was evident to me that this is more than just an offensive line problem.
    That very well might be the case. I'd be curious as to whether what Jackson said about Bulger deciding he wouldn't play for Linehan anymore came before or after the benching. It could be that he felt Linehan was making bad calls, putting his health in jeopardy, or just generally that the man was incompetent. Certainly many fans feel that way. If Linehan felt that Bulger had quit on him, he wouldn't really have a much of a choice here.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    As I have stated in another thread, long term will depend on Bulger himself. If decides his ego is bruised & wants to run & hide ( which with him not speaking publicly leads me to believe) or if he wants to stand up & fight for his job & his team & become the leader we all wish he would become. There is no doubt that he has the talent & once protected he is deadly, but please don't ever quit on your team. Be all that you can be Marc. I want to hear from him & his thoughts.

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    No, I don't. Some people seem to see this as a deliberate attempt to take Bulger out just at the moment he would finally have the chance to succeed. I see the benching of Bulger as one move in a series of sweeping changes to try to get the team winning games. I don't think all of this is directed right at Bulger. It's not personal; it's business. If Linehan doesn't start winning games, he's out of here. Even if he does start winning, his job may already be lost, but he has to do something.


    That very well might be the case. I'd be curious as to whether what Jackson said about Bulger deciding he wouldn't play for Linehan anymore came before or after the benching. It could be that he felt Linehan was making bad calls, putting his health in jeopardy, or just generally that the man was incompetent. Certainly many fans feel that way. If Linehan felt that Bulger had quit on him, he wouldn't really have a much of a choice here.
    Good take on the situation.

    I'm of the believe that no matter what Linehan did (does) now is a lost cause. ...or at least, his cause. He's a "dead man walking", for sure, and he knows it. What else can he do at this point?

    But what I find interesting, is that before this benching I read many posts that stated that Bulger wasn't a "good enough leader", he didn't show any "fire", and he's looking more and more like "Chris" Everett in the pocket. Now suddenly, he's benched for not performing on the field, and the facts clearly show that he is not performing, why such the big uproar about sitting his butt on the bench? ...are we afraid Scott hurt his feelings?

    Grow up Marc. Life's tough. Nothing in this world is a sure thing, and nothing that's not earned is of real value. You haven't earned the starting spot, regardless of the excuses about the O-line and receiving corp. You haven't been a good leader, and you haven't been accurate or made good reads when you've been given time. Time for you to sit and think about it. Time for you to work a little harder. Perhaps, if you can't or won't do this, then it's time for you to move on.

    ...and Jackson, just shut up. You didn't like playing for Martz, and now you don't like playing for Linehan. What do you want? Someone that'll give you the rock 30 times and game, tell everyone what a great star you are and kiss your butt?

    Also, we all complained about the team not playing like a team. Nobody had anybody's back. Just a bunch of individuals playing like 11 separate entities on the field.

    Now Linehan benches one of the team captains, and guess what?

    They're coming together and backing their QB like they're a team.

    ...uh, could it be that Scott knew what he was doing? Could it be that Linehan knew the only way to get this group playing like a team was to do something drastic like this to get some fire and comradarie? It's not like this method hasn't been tried before. It's going to either be a stroke of genius, bringing the team to fight together and play as a team, or it will blow up in his face. If it blows up, well, what's the difference? It was blowing up anyway, right?

    If I see a bunch of individuals playing like they don't care on Sunday, or, purposely tanking to get their coach fired, I'll have that much less respect for those guys. Regardless of how they feel about Linehan, it should not affect how they play on the field. This crap about not playing for the coach is ridiculous. How about playing for yourself and your teammates? How about showing some pride and professionalism? Because you don't like the coach, you're going to lie down like a dog and quit? Any player that does that, should pack it up and do something else for a living. They should be ashamed of themselves. Time for this team to man-up.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

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    Re: What really bothers me about the bulger situation-What is the long term impact to

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    Good take on the situation.

    I'm of the believe that no matter what Linehan did (does) now is a lost cause. ...or at least, his cause. He's a "dead man walking", for sure, and he knows it. What else can he do at this point?

    But what I find interesting, is that before this benching I read many posts that stated that Bulger wasn't a "good enough leader", he didn't show any "fire", and he's looking more and more like "Chris" Everett in the pocket. Now suddenly, he's benched for not performing on the field, and the facts clearly show that he is not performing, why such the big uproar about sitting his butt on the bench? ...are we afraid Scott hurt his feelings?

    Grow up Marc. Life's tough. Nothing in this world is a sure thing, and nothing that's not earned is of real value. You haven't earned the starting spot, regardless of the excuses about the O-line and receiving corp. You haven't been a good leader, and you haven't been accurate or made good reads when you've been given time. Time for you to sit and think about it. Time for you to work a little harder. Perhaps, if you can't or won't do this, then it's time for you to move on.

    ...and Jackson, just shut up. You didn't like playing for Martz, and now you don't like playing for Linehan. What do you want? Someone that'll give you the rock 30 times and game, tell everyone what a great star you are and kiss your butt?

    Also, we all complained about the team not playing like a team. Nobody had anybody's back. Just a bunch of individuals playing like 11 separate entities on the field.

    Now Linehan benches one of the team captains, and guess what?

    They're coming together and backing their QB like they're a team.

    ...uh, could it be that Scott knew what he was doing? Could it be that Linehan knew the only way to get this group playing like a team was to do something drastic like this to get some fire and comradarie? It's not like this method hasn't been tried before. It's going to either be a stroke of genius, bringing the team to fight together and play as a team, or it will blow up in his face. If it blows up, well, what's the difference? It was blowing up anyway, right?

    If I see a bunch of individuals playing like they don't care on Sunday, or, purposely tanking to get their coach fired, I'll have that much less respect for those guys. Regardless of how they feel about Linehan, it should not affect how they play on the field. This crap about not playing for the coach is ridiculous. How about playing for yourself and your teammates? How about showing some pride and professionalism? Because you don't like the coach, you're going to lie down like a dog and quit? Any player that does that, should pack it up and do something else for a living. They should be ashamed of themselves. Time for this team to man-up.

    I see you guys point but what if by some lucky chance we beat Buffalo? What happens to Bulger then? Do you guys really want to have to draft a qb with our first pick next year? With all the needs on this team qb wasnt really one of them. It surely isnt the top need thats for sure. I think you guys are missing the point. If we win Bulger isnt going to be reinstated as the starter so what do we do when we get beat the following week? I think Loserhan jumped the gun and should have left Bulger in with the other changes being made and see if anything improved. Instead he benches Bulger first and then makes other necessary changes and starts Green. I realize Bulger got paid a lot of money and I havnt heard him say he wouldnt play for Loserhan but how does Loserhan go back to Bulger? Will Bulger be out the rest of the year no matter what? Loserhan made a decision that in no way helps this team in the future that is the problem I have with it. I would have been better off with the benching if Berlin was starting. At least he is young and could possibly have some upside. Instead Loserhan made the move for himself not for the team and benched Bulger for Green to save his own arse. I realize Bulger wasnt playing well but neither is anybody elso on this team. This decision just is not in the best interest of the future of the Rams.
    Just Fix It

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