You be the judge!
You be the judge!
I say fire him now.
First, the Rams don't need to be part of this story. They would be better served by being viewed as part of the solution.
Also, I have to believe that the Rams knew this was coming, to a degree. That may be why the Rams hired Dave McGinnis as Asst. Head Coach. Seems to me he could slide into the DC position fairly easily. The question is, will he be a temporary fill in for Williams, or a permanent replacement?
It's the baggage this type of thing can cause, which worries me. So the Rams need to nip this one in the bud in my opinion. Williams over aggressive style, can be a little unsettling at the best of times. So maybe its best the Rams turn the page.?
Atleast its come out now, before he could start a new(bounty) pot in St.Louis. So their is some good to come out of this mess.?
I think we need to let the process play out. A quick firing is not the answer, and it is incredibly naive to think Williams invented an incentive based system of rewards for hard hits.
And I'm not concerned Williams would do it again in St. Louis after this has been made public. You'd have to be the dumbest man alive to even consider such a thing.
We don't know all the facts, but this is a bad situation and the team is trying to clean up the mess of a franchise in disaster. The Rams don't need to be in the middle of a firestorm or add any circus like distractions that will come with keeping Williams. Right or wrong, the fact that he is a major player in a sweeping NFL investigation, taints him. It's in the Rams best interests to cut their losses in this whole fiasco and show Williams the door now.
No coach is good enough to be worth this kind of mess. Really the guy should resign, regardless, he needs to be let go. It just looks ugly!
This is all a terrible mess. I hope we keep him and he gets fined millions of dollars, and nothing more. Highly unlikely but I can dream. I had such high hopes for this defense and Williams..
This entire mess begs the question (at least for me), did Fish know about this in advance? I haven't voted yet in the poll as the answer to this question would affect my vote.
Supposedly Fisher and Williams are very close friends. I will speculate that Williams knew that the "bounty program" would eventually come to light, and in all likelihood told Fisher before he was hired. Obviously this is pure speculation on my part, but I find it hard to believe that if Gregg and Jeff are truly close friends, Gregg would blindside Jeff with something of this magnitude. My guess is Fish probably knew about this and likely encouraged Gregg to come clean early on.
If Williams did not tell Fisher about this prior to accepting the Rams DC position, then he should be fired. Period! On the other hand if he did come clean to Fish, does anyone think Fish would keep it from Stan? What a marvelous way to start a new relationship between a new head coach and owner. If Fish knew, it is likely Stan knew as well.
It is quite possible some type of "plea bargain" may have been contrived in exchange for William's cooperation .. Time will tell. My guess is that Stan K. likely was informed of this impending scandal as well. If Fish knew and didn't tell Stan .. look out!! Both Kroenke and Fisher have a good working relationship with Goodell, so it will be interesting to say the least, to see what punishment is meted out to Williams. The punishment may be contingent to the extent Williams cooperates with the investigation.
Why is it that the Rams just can't seem to catch a break? I was really looking forward to a complete off-season with an apparently solid coaching staff, and the opportunity to have perhaps the best Rams draft in at least a decade ..
What do the rest of you Clan members believe as to whether Fisher and Stan knew of this mess in advance??
The hiring of McGinnis leads me to believe that Fisher was aware of the investigation. Its just a little too perfect that the Rams have 2 experienced DCs on their staff.
One thing that could impact how this plays out is Williams' contract. The Rams certainly have some "out" clauses which would allow them to terminate Williams and owe him nothing. It could be that the team needs the NFL to act to lock in a "for cause" termination. If that is the case, don't expect to hear much until the NFL announces the penalties.
Clearly this is a practice that probably goes on inside every locker room in the NFL, saints just got caught red handed. You don't fire gregg williams, you accept the punishment from the league and continue to build the franchise. No need for everyone to get their panties in a twist.
I wish i could dig up all the posts criticizing spags 4 pillars approach. Now faced with the other end of the spectrum i'm hearing the same complaints. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Article on William's persona:
Gregg Williams’ special way of connecting with players may lead to his downfall ..
By Les Carpenter, Yahoo! Sports Mar 3, 7:47 pm EST
He always appeared to be a football rogue – brash and sneering, and outthinking everyone while at the same time spoiling for a fight. This turned Gregg Williams into one of the most sought-after defensive coordinators in the NFL – beloved by his players even as he tussled with the men for whom he worked.
And it forever made the man who ran the New Orleans Saints’ bounty program one of the most compelling men in football: a coach who could design magnificent defenses while at the same time touching the carnal desire to hit and hurt that lurks inside each defensive player’s soul.
“Gregg is a little ‘we’re going to get after them’ in his approach. I like that,” once said former cornerback Shawn Springs, who played for Williams with the Washington Redskins.
It is hard for many in the NFL to defend Williams today. No one can endorse the operation of a slush fund that paid out bounties for injuries to key opposing players as he has admitted to doing in New Orleans and is alleged to have done with Washington. But to grasp how it could happen, one has to understand the culture in which he coached, the combativeness with which his teams played and the way his players responded to his demands to be relentless and even dangerous.
Or as Saints defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis said when asked a few months after Williams’ 2009 arrival what the new defensive coordinator had brought to the team: “Attitude. Attitude. Attitude.”
It should surprise few in the NFL that Williams ran such a program. He was always talking about running a defense that would knock players out of games. Many of his players have been accused of playing “dirty,” a moniker they wore with pride. When Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma was asked in December what he thought of allegations his defense levied illegal hits, he laughed and replied: “I’d rather be known as a [dirty defense] than a finesse defense.”
But few coaches in the NFL have touched their players the way Williams did in Tennessee, Washington, Jacksonville and New Orleans where he was defensive coordinator. He created a pack mentality, bonding defenses in the united purpose of hunting down sacks, interceptions and yes, big hits. And generally his players loved this, enduring his verbal attacks and snide comments because he gave them the reward of playing with a relentlessness that other coaches didn’t offer.
“I wanted to be That Guy for him, playing the game with an attitude opposing players absolutely feared. If that meant playing through the whistle or going low on a tackle, I did it,” former Redskin Matt Bowen wrote in a piece for the Chicago Tribune describing the way he felt about Williams. “I don’t regret any part of it. I can’t. Williams is the best coach I ever played for in my years in the NFL, a true teacher who developed me as a player. I believed in him. I still do. That will never change.”
To understand Williams, to see the contradictions in a brilliant coordinator who ran a pay-for-hit program, you need to understand the phrase that has haunted him since he was a little boy:
He has been running from those words for decades, disdainful of everything they imply. He wasn’t the best athlete growing up in the western Missouri town of Excelsior Springs but he always made sure to play the most important positions: quarterback, pitcher, point guard. He wanted the roles that had responsibility. He wanted to be in charge. He wanted people to look up to him. He wanted respect.
Nothing he hated more than being labeled a “dumb jock.” Even as a professional assistant, revered for his clever defenses as armies of players professed their devotion, the phrase burned at him. Dumb jock? He was much more than that. How could they distill him to a single, empty cliché?
He has called his lingering resentment over the stereotype “a chip on my shoulder.” And it is why he has stomped around the headquarters of the teams that employed him with an air that many interpret as arrogance. His offices are always meticulous, notes ordered in tidy rows ready to be pulled off when necessary. His desk is immaculate, devoid of clutter. On days of important meetings he will rise extra early, long before the sun creeps over the horizon, to make detailed lists on his pristine desktop.
When he signs his name, he does so clearly because Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly once told him: “If you can’t read the name, does that mean the person isn’t proud of who they are?”
Gregg Williams with then-Redskins coach Joe Gibbs in 2006.
He is well aware of his image. He knows people think him too smug for his own good. As a result, he won’t display the awards he has won in his office. But he can’t help worrying that someone might think he’s just another beer-swilling, empty-headed coach, shouting platitudes to each new head coach in an effort to keep cashing NFL paychecks.
However, Williams is in fact a defensive genius. Those around the Titans say he had a great deal to do with the team’s success in the late 1990s, including the Super Bowl season of 1999. He is known for taking a base 4-6 defense and adapting it to any situation, going from almost exclusive man-to-man pass coverages in one season to none the following year depending on his players. Often the adjustments came weekly.
This is why the Buffalo Bills made him their head coach for three tumultuous seasons, why the Redskins paid him handsomely to become their defensive coordinator and why Saints coach Sean Payton fired Gary Gibbs and then took $250,000 a year from his paycheck to generate enough money to lure Williams to New Orleans.
Neither Payton nor Redskins coach Joe Gibbs seemed particularly fond of Williams. Payton rarely allowed Williams to speak to reporters, especially after Williams boasted on a Nashville radio station that his players were going to deliver “remember-me shots” in Super Bowl XLIV against the Indianapolis Colts. Gibbs was annoyed when Williams didn’t notify him of plans to start the first game after the death of safety Sean Taylor with only 10 defensive players – a tribute to the fallen safety. Williams insists he did notify Gibbs, but their relationship was clearly strained.
Yet the results always justified the friction. And most defensive players whom Williams has coached adore him. Hardly wanting to be seen as the dumb jock, he instead portrays himself as a kind of smart gangster, a swashbuckling renegade who runs his a defensive unit separate from the rest of the team and without regard for basic rules. Most of his players love this. He comes at them with language so profane you would expect them to despise him. But he delivers his assaults with such a sneering edge, backed with such enthusiasm when they do something right, that his demeanor often endears him to them, making him the rare coach, three decades their senior, who can actually relate to them.
“Gregg Williams is a very tough, very verbal coach,” Antonio Pierce, a former linebacker of his with the Redskins once said. “When I was there I respected him a lot. He may be killing his players in practice but he was the first guy patting you on the back after [you] made a tough play.”
But there was no player Williams loved more than Taylor, who died after being shot in his home during the 2007 season. The safety was the essence of everything Williams cherished in a football player: honest, aggressive, relentless and reckless.
Much like Williams, Taylor was a loner among his peers and misunderstood by outsiders. His viciousness on the field and glaring refusal to trust people off it masked a tenderness that only a handful of people ever saw. Williams understood Taylor’s mistrust, seeing it as a sign of character, and he encouraged Taylor to play with a near-intent to hurt because he knew that was when Taylor felt most free on the field.
And when Taylor died Williams wept for days. He designed the missing-man formation for the first game after Taylor’s death as a way to help the defensive players heal. Among the people devastated by the shooting, Williams was the one who brought them together, whose raw emotions allowed them to cry, too, and may have generated an impossible run to the playoffs and a near-victory in their wild-card playoff game at Seattle.
Years later Williams’ voice still cracked when Taylor’s name came up. And when games got tight and Williams felt anxious, he’d reach into his pocket and finger a coin with Taylor’s face on front as a sort of talisman to get him through the moment.
Well, depending on the penalty from the league office, the Rams may not have to fire him. The league may do all the work themselves. Obviously, if he's suspended for the entire up coming season (which I think is a strong possibility) the Rams will have no choice but to terminate him.
I voted fire him now, I don't want the Rams to be an organization that employs coaches with a history of this type of behavior. It was not an isolated poor decision, it went on for years in multiple organizations.