View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Steven Jackson situation?

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  • Not really concerned. It will work itself out and he'll be ready by Week 1.

    23 25.56%
  • Mildly concerned. I expect him to sign, but it could linger into the season.

    24 26.67%
  • Worried. This is going to be a problem all year long and into next year.

    6 6.67%
  • Annoyed at Jackson. He's been offered a fair deal and he's being a jerk.

    17 18.89%
  • Annoyed at the team. The refusal to negotiate helps nobody.

    10 11.11%
  • At least we're not dealing with Brett Favre.

    10 11.11%
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  1. #46
    moloch41's Avatar
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I guess I simply find it strange to criticize Jackson for not accepting an offer you know next to nothing about but are simply assuming to be fair. But if that's what you are inclined to think, more power to you I guess.
    Well, my whole opinion is contingent on whether or not the Rams made him a compariable offer to the other top running backs in the league. I just tend to think that they did. Most agents, if the offer is "a slap in the face", go out on ESPN or some other avenue of medium and put that out there to help them win the Public Relations battle with the fans. Jackson and his agent have been very quiet on that front, which might signify that the offer was up there. Now, let me ask you this- if they did make him an offer that makes him, let's say, the 3rd highest running back overall (and I'm saying that all other things are equal, ie signing bonus, etc...), but he's holding out to be the highest paid RB- would you still be in his corner? And like I stated before- if he came to camp and was working on a contract in good faith, I would have more empathy for him and could see him walking out if things didn't iron out. The fact that the Rams said they would not negotiate until he did report and he's still not showing up, is really rubbing me the wrong way. With all this being said, I hope something gets worked out quickly and he's back in camp in the next couple of days.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I do find it interesting though that the Rams' offer, according to the article, is less than what Portis and Tomlinson were given four years ago.
    And I don't know the answer to this- but are there running backs making more currently?


  2. #47
    TheBritishRam's Avatar
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    I'm not concerned at all, in my eyes at least he'll be nice and fresh for the season. A RB shouldn't take hits until they count.

  3. #48
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBritishRam View Post
    I'm not concerned at all, in my eyes at least he'll be nice and fresh for the season. A RB shouldn't take hits until they count.

    That didn't work for him last year when Linehan sat him out all preseason. He had two bad games, one good one, and then got hurt. And at least he had mini-camp last season- he might not get any of that if he holds out too long.

  4. #49
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41 View Post
    I just tend to think that they did.
    That's fine. I simply see little actual evidence to warrant that conclusion just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41 View Post
    Most agents, if the offer is "a slap in the face", go out on ESPN or some other avenue of medium and put that out there to help them win the Public Relations battle with the fans. Jackson and his agent have been very quiet on that front, which might signify that the offer was up there.
    Maybe. Or it might signify that they don't want to lose fan support for Jackson by looking like they're whining about a multi-million dollar contract offer. I think when it comes to the media, they're playing it right - just be quiet and don't make a big scene about it.

    To me, that also might imply a guy who doesn't want to burn any bridges with his team or teammates either.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41 View Post
    Now, let me ask you this- if they did make him an offer that makes him, let's say, the 3rd highest running back overall (and I'm saying that all other things are equal, ie signing bonus, etc...), but he's holding out to be the highest paid RB- would you still be in his corner?
    Again, it would depend on the specifics of the offer. If I'm not going to draw any conclusions based on limited information on the real Rams' offer, I'm not going to draw any based on a limited hypothetical either. There is a limit to how much I can support Jackson in this, but I'm not going to set that limit based on broad hypothetical situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41 View Post
    And I don't know the answer to this- but are there running backs making more currently?
    Tomlinson's $60 million deal was matched by McFadden, who also received $60 million this summer from the Raiders. McFadden's deal was over six years (Tomlinson's over eight) and included $5 million more in guaranteed money.

    Two years ago, the Seahawks signed Shaun Alexander to a bigger contract, an eight-year extension worth $62 million. It featured less guaranteed money though, only $15.5 million I believe. That made sense at the time, given that he was 28 when he signed the deal.

    So in terms of total value, this is what you're looking at...

    Alexander (2006): $62 million/$15.5 guaranteed/8 years
    McFadden (2008): $60 million/$26 guaranteed/6 years
    Tomlinson (2004): $60 million/$21 guaranteed/8 years
    Portis (2004): $50.5 million/$17 guaranteed/8 years
    Johnson (2007): $45.05 million/$19 guaranteed/6 years

    So yeah, Alexander was making more than Tomlinson in terms of total value. Two years after LT's deal, Alexander signed the new mega deal. Now it's two years after that, and according to the article, the Rams' offer is less than all of those.

    Keep in mind there are a couple guys just right below those figures as well...

    A. Peterson (2007): $40.5 million/$17 guaranteed/6 years
    R. Brown (2005): $34 million/$19.5 guaranteed/5 years

    I would be interested in seeing how the Rams' offer compares to those deals as well.

    The general trend when it comes to NFL contracts is that contract value goes up year after year. That's the nature of the beast. Look at what happened two seasons ago with the offensive guards that hit the market.

    Steinbach signs with Cleveland as a free agent for $49.5 million over seven years with $17 million in guaranteed money. Derrick Dockery signs a $49 million deal with Buffalo with $18.5 million in guarantees. Just one year later, Alan Faneca who is at least three years older than both signs a $40 million deal over five years that pays $21 million in guarantees.

    Additional cap room combined with general contract inflation means that the deals signed by guys a couple of years ago are going to get passed over by the new deals of today. Yet the Rams are asking Jackson to accept a deal that's below previous top deals anywhere from a year to four years old.

    The Thomas article says Jackson is seeking at least $20 million guaranteed, which based on what other top backs are getting is appropriate market value. The article then says the Rams are offering less. How much less?

    Personally I would have thought the deal signed by Larry Johnson last year - six years, $45.5 million, $19 million guaranteed - would have been the initial negotiating point for the Rams and Jackson. But according to the article, Jackson wants more guaranteed money, and the Rams' offer would have put him under Johnson.

  5. #50
    Josh Guest

    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Steven Jackson will look for a 5 to 6 year deal worth atleast 58 to 60 million with atlease 20.5 million guaranted.

  6. #51
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    To me he is in breach of contract.

  7. #52
    Josh Guest

    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Steven please cpme to camp.. we miss you.. my Mob Can't Reach you from where your at.

  8. #53
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    The other thing that bothers me about these contracts is these dudes sign long term deals, play for a year or two and then want to rework the contract. There's got to a point where teams say enough is enough. If a team likes what you did so much that they want to extend the contract- that is there right, but once you sign on that dotted line, you should be commited to play out what you signed.

  9. #54
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by moloch41 View Post
    The other thing that bothers me about these contracts is these dudes sign long term deals, play for a year or two and then want to rework the contract. There's got to a point where teams say enough is enough. If a team likes what you did so much that they want to extend the contract- that is there right, but once you sign on that dotted line, you should be commited to play out what you signed.
    I agree...when the player still has several years left on his contract. At this point, Jackson has one season left. IMHO, this is the right time for him to be talking contract. Sure, he could wait right up until free agency, but if he wants to make sure that he stays a Ram, it's best to get it taken care of sooner rather than later.

    I don't really like holdouts even then, but NFL contracts are not quite like the normal kind most the country signs. Among other things, Jackson didn't really have a choice to play for someone else as a rookie (and he's still on his rookie contract). It was either sign for the Rams or get out of the football business altogether. So it's not like he had a whole lot of choice in signing the contract he's playing under now anyway.

  10. #55
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    My opinion is a combo of "mildly concerned" and "annoyed at Jackson". My problem with Jackson rests entirely in the fact that he signed a 5-year contract, 4 years ago. He didn't sign a 4-year contract with a 5th year option. He didn't add a clause saying he has the option to set out the last year if he wants.

    He put his name on a piece of paper. By refusing to work, he is not doing his good name any justice. And a good name is a hard thing to come by these days. That needs to mean something.



    OTOH, does he deserve a fat new contract? You bet he does. Take his performance as a starter, and pro-rate to a full season, he's averaging 1850 yards from scrimmage, 12 TDs, and 4.3 per carry. He deserves (as much as any professional athlete "deserves" their salary) $20M in guaranteed.

    But he has to come to camp, first! Then, get the deal worked out.
    Exactly!!If I rememember correctly Torry Holt was talking about holding out a few years back,but decided to show up for camp against the advice of his agent.Things worked out fine for him.Jackson needs to show up for camp and then his contract will be worked out.
    ST.LOUIS RAMS:THE MOST FRUSTRATING TEAM IN THE NFL!!!

  11. #56
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece View Post
    I don't really like holdouts even then, but NFL contracts are not quite like the normal kind most the country signs.

    Most of the country doesn't sign contracts. Most of them will never live to make 20 million dollars- and they certainly won't have an employer gauruntee it to them no matter how they perform. And if they hold out from work for more money, they would get fired. I think that's why players don't usually have the public on their side- especially when it's prolonged. Most people struggle to get by- they don't want to hear a multi-millionare whine about only getting 18 million.
    Last edited by moloch41; -08-08-2008 at 04:51 PM.

  12. #57
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    That's fine. I simply see little actual evidence to warrant that conclusion just yet.

    Tomlinson's $60 million deal was matched by McFadden, who also received $60 million this summer from the Raiders. McFadden's deal was over six years (Tomlinson's over eight) and included $5 million more in guaranteed money.

    Two years ago, the Seahawks signed Shaun Alexander to a bigger contract, an eight-year extension worth $62 million. It featured less guaranteed money though, only $15.5 million I believe. That made sense at the time, given that he was 28 when he signed the deal.

    So in terms of total value, this is what you're looking at...

    Alexander (2006): $62 million/$15.5 guaranteed/8 years
    McFadden (2008): $60 million/$26 guaranteed/6 years
    Tomlinson (2004): $60 million/$21 guaranteed/8 years
    Portis (2004): $50.5 million/$17 guaranteed/8 years
    Johnson (2007): $45.05 million/$19 guaranteed/6 years

    So yeah, Alexander was making more than Tomlinson in terms of total value. Two years after LT's deal, Alexander signed the new mega deal. Now it's two years after that, and according to the article, the Rams' offer is less than all of those.

    Keep in mind there are a couple guys just right below those figures as well...

    A. Peterson (2007): $40.5 million/$17 guaranteed/6 years
    R. Brown (2005): $34 million/$19.5 guaranteed/5 years

    I would be interested in seeing how the Rams' offer compares to those deals as well.
    What good are these numbers, Nick?

    All the details are not there.

    How can we use these incomplete contract numbers to comapare against each other let alone to what Jackson was offered.

    We know so very little.

    We should all join AV in his holdout, from posting, since we don't know enough of the details.


  13. #58
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Contrary to your sarcastic implication, I don't believe I ever said we needed all the contract details in order to compare or draw conclusions. If I did, that was a mistake on my part. My point was simply that I don't think we know enough about the Rams' offer to arrive at a meaningful conclusion.

    We don't know what the total value of the offer was, just that it would have put him in the top four or five of running backs in the league. That's great, but doesn't tell us much in terms of specifics. We also don't know the contract length and didn't know the amount of guaranteed money, just that it was apparently lower than $20 million.

    While there are additional finer points that would be nice to know as well, I think those three primary aspects of the deal are what you really have to have. And those are the aspects I provided to moloch as an answer to his question.

    Now, thanks to Howard Balzer we're getting closer to at least one of those details - the guaranteed money was about $18 million.

  14. #59
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Now, thanks to Howard Balzer we're getting closer to at least one of those details - the guaranteed money was about $18 million.
    See, now that sounds like a fair offer and a solid starting point in negotions. I really believe that if Jackson was in camp, this would all be resolved by now. And this has been my point all along- I really believed the Rams made him a good faith offer and did not draw a line in the sand there- they just told him that negotions will not continue unless he showed up at camp- an end of the bargin that he has not lived up to as of yet.
    Last edited by moloch41; -08-08-2008 at 03:50 PM.

  15. #60
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    Re: What's your opinion of the Steven Jackson situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Contrary to your sarcastic implication, I don't believe I ever said we needed all the contract details in order to compare or draw conclusions. If I did, that was a mistake on my part. My point was simply that I don't think we know enough about the Rams' offer to arrive at a meaningful conclusion.

    We don't know what the total value of the offer was, just that it would have put him in the top four or five of running backs in the league. That's great, but doesn't tell us much in terms of specifics. We also don't know the contract length and didn't know the amount of guaranteed money, just that it was apparently lower than $20 million.

    While there are additional finer points that would be nice to know as well, I think those three primary aspects of the deal are what you really have to have. And those are the aspects I provided to moloch as an answer to his question.

    Now, thanks to Howard Balzer we're getting closer to at least one of those details - the guaranteed money was about $18 million.
    I certainly do not feel that my implication in this thread was anymore sarcastic than your implication in the other thread was condescending.

    Well, you certainly implied that we needed more details in the other thread. And in this thread you stated it with the term "nuance". Nuance would indicate a lot more than the big 3 (total, years, guaranteed).

    But whatever works for you, Nick, when you want to be condescending towards someone elses opinion. Silly for me to think it should work that way with your conclusions.

    And now instead of it being a "conclusion" on my part from my perspective it has changed to a "meaningful conclusion" in your perspective. Which makes no sense since you seem to have a problem with making a conclusion to begin with.

    Do you suppose every other RB and their respective agents are all stupid and sign contracts with crappy nuances or finer details? Or that Jackson and his agent are just that much smarter than everyone else at finding the crappy details? Or maybe the Rams have a roster full of players that have contracts with crappy details because that is what the Rams offer?

    I would think that the majority of these contracts are somewhat standardized. And the details do not vary extensively. After all there are many players being represented by the same handfull of agents. But wait that would be a darn conclusion on my part. Hmmmm.....like I said before, perhaps it is best that we keep the site sterile and not conclude a thing, right Nick?

    As was previously reported the guaranteed money offered to Jackson was a bit lower than the 20 million he was seeking. It was also reported as the hangup on the agreement. Now, as you post, it is being reported that the Rams offered 18 million.

    So, before we get out the rubbing alcohol and sterilize the site from all conclusions....Would it be safe to conclude that Jackson is holding out of camp, pissing the FO off, and putting an end to future negotiating over 2 million dollars?



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