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  1. #1
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Not sure. My point is that until the Rams get some Jimmy's and Joe's in here all the coaching in the world isn't going to help. We aren't that talented people. Not like we were earlier in the decade. We have an aging LT, a RT who can't figure out the snap count, no true C, a G that is undersized and the other G position is a carousel ride. We have a high priced WR who can't catch or stay healthy, a rookie WR who is just learning route running, an older WR who doesn't want to be here, a QB who has been hit more times than a Las Vegas BlackJack table, and a RB who when healthy is a beast but can't pick up the blitz.

    That's just the offense. A DE who is aging, another DE who as rookie played well but is still learning. A DT who is really a DE no matter if he's 300 lbs or not. A MLB who is really an OLB and a secondary that couldn't cover a twin bed with a king sized comforter.

    Outside of the kicking game, the personnel on this team needs to be cleaned out also.


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    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Not sure. My point is that until the Rams get some Jimmy's and Joe's in here all the coaching in the world isn't going to help. We aren't that talented people. Not like we were earlier in the decade. We have an aging LT, a RT who can't figure out the snap count, no true C, a G that is undersized and the other G position is a carousel ride. We have a high priced WR who can't catch or stay healthy, a rookie WR who is just learning route running, an older WR who doesn't want to be here, a QB who has been hit more times than a Las Vegas BlackJack table, and a RB who when healthy is a beast but can't pick up the blitz.

    That's just the offense. A DE who is aging, another DE who as rookie played well but is still learning. A DT who is really a DE no matter if he's 300 lbs or not. A MLB who is really an OLB and a secondary that couldn't cover a twin bed with a king sized comforter.

    Outside of the kicking game, the personnel on this team needs to be cleaned out also.
    To answer the title of this thread....Woody Hayes made a play once!

    As far as I'm concerned you're absolutely right. I know as a RAMS die-hard fan I tend to overrate our players. It's so hard to believe that our level of talent has slipped so much so fast. It's also quite obvious that Linehan wasn't a very good judge of talent either. Or at least who or whomever was turning in the scouting reports was off base.

    All of the changes at the top were overdue and hopefully they know what they're doing.

  3. #3
    HornIt Guest

    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    To answer your question directly, the only time I've seen a coach make a play was in the Holiday Bowl last year when a Texas coach stepped onto the field and touched the ball.
    Video - Texas vs Arizona St. - Chris Jessie Touch the Ball - Arizona State Sun Devils, College Football

    That cracked me up.

    Anyway, I agree that this team needs better players. More specifically for me, more and better leaders at key positions.

    But those players need to put in schemes that work, be put in positions to succeed by the coaches and work in a culture of trust, accountability and high expectations.

    In the end, the edge in actual ability is pretty thin at the NFL level, but those intangibles largely drive the gaps between the good and bad teams in the league and those gaps are closed, IMO, by getting the right players in effective schemes installed and coached by good coaches. I don't think the Rams have had much of any of those things, which is why they're 5-27 over the last two years.

  4. #4
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    I agree completely and have been making this same kind of post for weeks if not months. TALENT is the key, coaching matters at the margain.

    For the millionth time, the Rams fans screamed to fire bobby april because our special teams were the worst in the league. THe next year he is the special teams coach of the year at buffalo and they lead the league in ALL special teams categories. Does any rationale person believe that April did one thing differently as a coach with buffalo that he didnt do with the Rams or maybe, just maybe, does it mean that buffalo has a lot better talent on special teams than the Rams did. That is such an obvious example that it bespeaks discussion

    Check out vermeil and cowher's records the year before their team won the super bowl by the way. Was vermeil a different coach or did faulk, holt, timmerman, warner make a big difference in the rams talent level.

    Spags, ryan, schwartz, frazier all coached good defenses last year. They will NOT be miracle workers with the rams. we need MUCH MORE TALENT. News flash, we dont have anyone that remotely resembles haynseworth on the roster. IF people dont see how weak we are talent wise they truly dont get where our problem lies.

    Ramming speed to all

    general counsel


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    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Geesh, come on!!!

    You know damn well that the head coach is the most important player on the team, even if he stands on the sidelines all the time.

    Just look at HIS record. That will show you how good he is and whether the team is doing well.

    The players couldn't find the field without the head coach.



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    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Geesh, come on!!!



    The players couldn't find the field without the head coach.


    LOL In the case of many Rams over the last few years, I think that's probably true!
    Damn that that Direct Deposit thing that banks have nowadays or we might have saved a lotta dough while they got lost on the way to the ATM.
    I don't recall any posters here who have been obsessing over the HC situation, myself included, claiming that the decision will guarantee success next year.

    It's just that we can't even realistically assess/guess what the priorities for that will be until we have a HC.
    At least, it's a lot more "guess" than "assess" at this stage.

    I certainly don't accept that good coaching isn't a part of the complex equation that lead to success in a single year or longterm. Talent is the backbone but it seldom is enough; see Dallas .

    Sometimes the talent and the coaching are there but bad luck plays a big part, see The Chargers, The Patsies, The Titans.

    We are attacking the problem in the right way for once; starting at the top; Shawgmunt gone/fading, Devaney in charge, Linehan gone, and THEN the players.

    No point in burrowing into a pile of crap & trying to plant seeds of talent. They'll just get smothered by the weight of stinky goo on top.

  7. #7
    bigredman Guest

    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Not sure. My point is that until the Rams get some Jimmy's and Joe's in here all the coaching in the world isn't going to help.


    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel
    I agree completely and have been making this same kind of post for weeks if not months. TALENT is the key, coaching matters at the margain.

    You can bring all the "talent" you want into a franchise, but if you don't have a very good coach to manage that talent, then all you have is a bunch of overpaid athletes drawing a paycheck until they move on, and a team that "underachieved".

    I mean really. Name me a team that has made it to a conference championship, let alone a Super Bowl without a very good coach? Look at Wade Philips. Had all the talent needed to get into the playoffs and maybe to the Super Bowl. However, he couldn't manage that talent. It took a great coach like Vermeil to come into St. Louis to get the franchise back on track and take a loser and make it into a winner. To say look at Vermeil's record prior to the Super Bowl with the team is both short sighted and disingenuous. So he had nothing to do with rebuilding the team and getting them the meld together? The efficiency in which our 1999 team ran cannot happen with individual talent acting as individual excellence. It took a common force to get them all to play together, plan and execute the game plan, and motivate them to play selflessly and as a team for a common goal. That is the heavy role of the head coach.

    Stop being a bunch of paparazzi and chasing star players. Let's get a great Director and make stars out of some unknown new stars.
    Last edited by bigredman; -01-18-2009 at 06:14 PM.

  8. #8
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    I don't recall any posters here who have been obsessing over the HC situation, myself included, claiming that the decision will guarantee success next year.
    Oh that's a bunch of BS! Apparently you have not been paying attention over the last several weeks. The majority of threads are about one or another HC candidate. And there have been claims beyond belief. And the majority of these claims are backed by nothing more than pure speculation. Claims range from "this guy sucks and he should be burned at the stake because I don't like him" - to - "I want to have his baby because he makes me quiver when I see him on the sidelines".



    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Sometimes the talent and the coaching are there but bad luck plays a big part, see The Chargers, The Patsies, The Titans.
    "Bad Luck" he says. Therin lies the great scapegoat when something conflicts with a persons flawed reasoning. There is no such thing as luck beit good or bad. If there were someone would have figured out how to bottle and sell it by now. Tell me, were you born lucky or unlucky? Pitty the poor people that have the "Bad Luck" gene in their DNA.



  9. #9
    RamFan_Til_I_Die's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Not sure. My point is that until the Rams get some Jimmy's and Joe's in here all the coaching in the world isn't going to help.
    Please explain to me then the difference between the 1-15 Cam Cameron led Dolphins of '07 and the 11-5 Tony Sparano led Dolphins of '08? Are you attributing all of that success to Pennington and Long? Not much else player wise changed since last year and I find it very hard to believe Sparano had nothing to do with it.

  10. #10
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    Oh that's a bunch of BS! Apparently you have not been paying attention over the last several weeks. The majority of threads are about one or another HC candidate. And there have been claims beyond belief. And the majority of these claims are backed by nothing more than pure speculation. Claims range from "this guy sucks and he should be burned at the stake because I don't like him" - to - "I want to have his baby because he makes me quiver when I see him on the sidelines".



    "Bad Luck" he says. Therin lies the great scapegoat when something conflicts with a persons flawed reasoning. There is no such thing as luck beit good or bad. If there were someone would have figured out how to bottle and sell it by now. Tell me, were you born lucky or unlucky? Pitty the poor people that have the "Bad Luck" gene in their DNA.


    If you don't want to read about ClanRam members' opinions about HC candidates, don't.

    Quotation marks are used to indicate actual words one attributes to another speaker or writer, not your obnoxious hyperbolical interpretations such as those you have attributed to other posters above. I doubt they are accurate.

    As to the sneer about luck not being a factor, The Patsies lost their QB & yet finished 11-5 but missed the playoffs.

    LT , one of the best RBs in the game, couldn't play in the post-season.

    The Titans lost their RB who was running circles around the Ravens D and never recovered.

    I call that bad luck. Perhaps you'd credit the opposing players for hurting these key guys, given your rude sarcastic attitude towards me and ,as far as I can tell, the rest of this board.

  11. #11
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    If you don't want to read about ClanRam members' opinions about HC candidates, don't.
    Seems you are the one that does not want to read, since my response was in direct reference to you being unaware of the recent obsession with the HC topic here at the clanram.



    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    Quotation marks are used to indicate actual words one attributes to another speaker or writer, not your obnoxious hyperbolical interpretations such as those you have attributed to other posters above. I doubt they are accurate.
    Thanks for the grammar lesson. No need to doubt, they are not accurate, they are obvious exagerations, something you and many others should be intimately familiar with.




    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    As to the sneer about luck not being a factor

    I call that bad luck.
    I never said anything about luck being a factor or a non-factor. You call it what you want. What I said is that there is no such thing as luck therfore it can not be a factor, period. Believing in luck as an explanation to what occurs is flawed reasoning. Luck does not apply in the rules of probability and it has zero scientific value.




    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    given your rude sarcastic attitude towards me
    You're sadly mistaken. Although I do recall your insensitive attitude, in another post, about the plight of the victims of hurricane Katrina. And I mentioned as much, in that thread, yet you did not seem to want to discuss it. I wonder why?

  12. #12
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Didn't Haslett take out an opposing team player who was coming at him on the sideline this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    I mean really. Name me a team that has made it to a conference championship, let alone a Super Bowl without a very good coach?
    Um, how about bobble head Barry Switzer winning the Superbowl with Dallas?

  13. #13
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Ferter,
    I find your arguments general, unsubstantiated by fact or citation, vituperative in the extreme, and largely irrelevant to the focus of this board which I believe is the free and cordial exchange of opinion about the Rams and NFL football.

    I'm sure you'll interpret my future silence on any further comments from you about me or any other posters' opinions as a tacit admission of defeat.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm simply not here for this kind of mean-spirited shadow boxing.

    I don't pitty (sic) you but I am bored by you.So I'll take my own sound advice and ignore you.

    Go Rams Now & Forever

  14. #14
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    I don't pitty (sic) you but I am bored by you.So I'll take my own sound advice and ignore you.
    I was there, where you are now, after reading your thoughts on the aftermath of Katrina as they related to haslett. And I'm sure I don't need to point out it was once again you that called me out in this thread. So, I won't be losing any sleep over you taking your own sound advice. Those who instilled my virtuous values would be proud and consider me to be a better person for not partaking in an unmitigated smear campaign against Jim Haslett. And quite frankly, those opinions are all the only ones that truly make a difference.



  15. #15
    rammiser's Avatar
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    Re: When is the last time a coach made a play?

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    Please explain to me then the difference between the 1-15 Cam Cameron led Dolphins of '07 and the 11-5 Tony Sparano led Dolphins of '08? Are you attributing all of that success to Pennington and Long? Not much else player wise changed since last year and I find it very hard to believe Sparano had nothing to do with it.
    I have to completely agree with this. I love how coaching is downplayed like only the players make a difference. The Dophins were not a very talented team. Which is why they were easily bounced in the playoffs. They were a very well coached team and it showed. They didnt make dumb mistakes and they always played hard. There were no ups and downs, the same team showed up to play week in and week out. When your best wr is Greg Camarillo your team isnt very talented. They won the division! So don't come over here posting that the coaches dont make plays, players do because without good directions your just lost. Tons of talent in Dallas but a pushover for a coach, result no playoffs. As for Switzer winning with Dallas I could have gone there and won a Superbowl. That was Jimmy Johnsons team.

    I don't want a pushover of a coach running my team I want a leader. For all of you guys crying about Bulger not being a leader first need to look at the coach who is the real leader of the team. Parcells was a good coach because guys were afraid of this guy. He instantly made teams better. So did the same talent just become more talented or did Parcells bring out the best in those guys? I'd rather have a good coach and less talented team than a talented team and a terrible coach. Good coaching beats out talent every day of the week.
    Last edited by rammiser; -01-17-2009 at 01:45 AM.
    Just Fix It

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