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  1. #1
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    When Stars are replaced.

    You know as I read through thread after thread about Steven Jackson and Marc Bulger I realize no matter what they do or how well they do it they will never be respected by a boat load of fans. Do they deserve it? No, they dont they are blamed for every little thing maybe even blamed for the star before them being ousted. Good luck Aaron Rodgers you will need it.

    Look at Jackson for instance, he puts up this remarkable season and a lot of people can only comment on his comments. He misses four games and all of the sudden he is injury prone. Not only is he following in Faulks footsteps he is drowning in the wake of stardom he left behind. Of course this isnt fair but for some reason he can do no right. I've seen him compared to T.O. because he has lofty expectations of himself. Man better tone that down fella start thinking you will suck that's a much better attitude. What ever Faulk had people will say Jackson lacks. Faulk could walk on water and Jackson can't even sit in the boat. I hear things like draft Darren McFadden Jackson is getting old. Which is halarious because Jackson is 25 people. Some of these fans just say crazy things out of their rear end that are totally false just because they don't like that he replaced Faulk. Even thought Jackson is looked at as a top five back some people still wanted the Rams to draft McFadden like that would have made us win.

    Then you take Bulger and he had no shot from the get go unless he marched to a Superbowl win. Even then I dont think it would be enough for some people. Bulger was handed the Rams on a silver platter is a funny statement I read recently in a post. The Warner blinders were in full effect. Sure the Rams should have kept Warner on the field and kept losing with Warner just because he won us a Superbowl. Bulger wouldnt still be the starter if he didnt perform well. He is regarded as a top ten qb but it's not good enough because he doent have intangibles and leadership like Warner and all the other superbowl winning qb's like Dilfer. You cant bring up stats when praising Bulger but you get these fanatic Warner backers and I bet stats are used to show how great he was and how he should be in the Hall of Fame. It's funny how that works right. When talking about Bulger your only allowed to talk about things like intangibles and leadership which no one outside the Rams locker room really knows how Bulger is in the huddle. Afterall intangibles and leadership win Superbowls right Trent Dilfer? Dont get me wrong I love Warner and what he did. I still root for him on the Cards, not against us of course. It was time for him to go, what were the Rams supposed to do keep putting him in with the bad thumb or let Bulger take over the team? Bulger has what it takes to lead this team but unfortunately he is Warners replacement and for that he can do no right. Unfortunately qb's dont win superbowl teams do.

    The Packers will now go through what the Rams went through. No matter how well Rodgers performs he will not get the respect. This isnt because he isnt good it will be because he might not have that magical team that Favre had. This is the ultimate team sport. What did Dan Marino lack? I think he was on of the greatest qb's of all time yet no rings. Was he not a good leader? Did he lack the intangibles it took to win. Or was it just that he didnt have that one magical season where everything came together and everyone played as one. Maybe his teams just were not good enough. Possibly the case for Bulger. In 03 our defense gave up over 200 yds rushing to the Panthers yet everyone blames Bulgers int's. Funny how that works huh. What Jackson,Rodgers and Bulger all have in common is that no matter what they do and how well they do it they will always be second fiddle just because they replaced a beloved star. Sometimes people dont realize what they have untill it's gone and the next Ryan Leaf and Lawrence Phillips is waiting in the wings when Bulger and Jackson are replaced. Be careful what you wish for!

    Just Fix It

  2. #2
    Josh Guest

    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Marc Bulger Needs to Learn How to be a leader. He will never be the type of leader that kurt was. Marc is a great Quarterback, But you need more than skills to make it in the NFL.

  3. #3
    Keenum's Avatar
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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    It's hard to follow a star. Steve Young was not liked by many fans, just because he was following Joe Montana, and the fact the 9ers had released Montana and he went to play for another team. It's just people getting attached to players. Not only was Kurt a great QB for us, but he was a great person, and there was no way you could hate the guy. When he was released, a lot of fans were angry, and sadly, a lot of that was taken out on Mr. Bulger. Jackson didn't get a lot of hate (or at least not as much as Bulger) because Faulk retired himself, the Rams didn't get rid of him.

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    rammiser's Avatar
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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Marc Bulger Needs to Learn How to be a leader. He will never be the type of leader that kurt was. Marc is a great Quarterback, But you need more than skills to make it in the NFL.
    Can you please define leader for me. Is being a leader only if a qb wins a Superbowl? Is being a leader going out and playing hurt for your team mates? Is being a leader getting up time after time after time behind a horrible o-line and pressing on? Is being a leader calling out un-named team mates for not working hard enough? You guys with this crap about Bulger not being a leader is just a big load. Is that really what is keeping the Rams from being great again is Bulger not being a great leader? It couldnt be our crappy o-line or crappy defense or crappy play calling right. For your information Bulger has made it in the NFL he's a top ten qb and starting for the Rams. Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring is he a great leader? The leadership thing is a big load of crap. It takes a team to win the ring not one guy. This arguement will never end and justifies what I said in my original post.
    Just Fix It

  5. #5
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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Very good points so far, and here's another. The Rams have been extremely lucky to have had one of the greatest LT's of all time, Orlando Pace. He, Ogden and Jones all shined on the NFL at the same time to show what everyone else was missing. Now, while we still have him, we have been grooming his successor in Alex Barron. People are always dragging him down because he has the false start and holding issues. I won't deny it, he does. However, in actual protection, he does a rather good job, but that is overlooked because he's not OP. He was the only player on the offensive line who started all 16 games last year, which, considering last year, should make him the MVP.

    When Barron gets better control of his pre snap stance and the snap count, I fully believe that he will be a perfectly good successor to Pace, however, as we will see in Baltimore this year with Gaither taking over for Ogden, I'm sure that the penalties and the "He's not Pace" will stick with him.

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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Marc Bulger Needs to Learn How to be a leader. He will never be the type of leader that kurt was. Marc is a great Quarterback, But you need more than skills to make it in the NFL.
    Yeah Josh - kinda' like Ryan Leaf's intangibles?

    And where is Alamba, exactly?
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasRam View Post

    And where is Alamba, exactly?
    Between Missippi and Georgi.


    Whether we like it or not Marc Bulger is our "offensive" team leader. Hopefully the troops around him will give him a chance to prove it, again.

  8. #8
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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Bulger was handed the Rams on a silver platter is a funny statement I read recently in a post.
    Care to elaborate on what was funny to you? I remember Bulger playing very well in 2002(before he got hurt) and earning a shot at the starter's role. Warner played poorly in the 2003 opener, some say was benched to protect an injury others say there wasn't one, and Bulger's been in there ever since no matter how poorly he's played. There was some truly bad QB'ing by him in 2003 and he deserved to be benched on more than one occasion. The Rams committed to him almost unconditionally though.
    He is regarded as a top ten qb but it's not good enough because he doent have intangibles and leadership like Warner and all the other superbowl winning qb's like Dilfer.
    His QB rating has been top 10 but so has Chad Pennington's. As a matter of fact, Pennington and Griese have both led the league in passer rating in their careers.
    You cant bring up stats when praising Bulger...
    Funny, I get the impression that the stats that illustrate his shortcomings are being ignored.
    Afterall intangibles and leadership win Superbowls right Trent Dilfer?
    I think most would agree that if the Rams had the most dominant defense of all time and played versus a Kerry Collins led team that Bulger would probably be able to lead the Rams to victory.
    It was time for him to go, what were the Rams supposed to do keep putting him in with the bad thumb or let Bulger take over the team?
    Diagnose and correct the problem? You know, like the rookie head coach in Arizona. With all of the arguing, fan polarization, losing, subsequent results and drop in attendance is it possible that perhaps the Rams aren't the best example of good decision making? Remember, they had to pay Warner a starter's salary as well as hike up Bulger's contact when Warner wasn't even there any more. Was it worth all the years of scrap heap backups, depth issues and 1 playoff win to get rid of a team legend who still has the ability to play?
    Bulger has what it takes to lead this team but unfortunately he is Warners replacement and for that he can do no right. Unfortunately qb's dont win superbowl teams do.
    Is it that unreasonable to expect the replacement to equal or exceed who he's replacing? That's the whole point of making the change isn't it? Is the same argument going to be make for Bennett this year? Or is there more than just statistical value to team icons? If they're going to dump a guy like Bruce, then I sure as hell expect Bennett to produce at a high level. If he's just going to replicate what Bruce did, then I would rather see Bruce doing it.

    The Rams are just so smart about these things. Gabriel, Ferragamo, Dickerson, Everett, Fletcher, Warner, Bruce....please remind me of all the benefits those moves reaped?

  9. #9
    Josh Guest

    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    You can't argue that Marc bulger doesnt even come close to being the type of Leader in the Huddle that kurt warner was. Kurt Demanded Respect.. Marc is just hoping for it.

  10. #10
    rammiser's Avatar
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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    Care to elaborate on what was funny to you? I remember Bulger playing very well in 2002(before he got hurt) and earning a shot at the starter's role. Warner played poorly in the 2003 opener, some say was benched to protect an injury others say there wasn't one, and Bulger's been in there ever since no matter how poorly he's played. There was some truly bad QB'ing by him in 2003 and he deserved to be benched on more than one occasion. The Rams committed to him almost unconditionally though.
    Bulger wasnt just handed the team. Warner didnt only play poorly he was horrible. He fumbled the ball 6 times and threw one int. Your banging on Bulger for the Panther game Warner deserved another shot after that? They did give him a shot and obviousley the thumb was in no shape to compete. He couldnt hold onto the ball. As a franchise you have to make a decision and a tough one at that. Do we give this kid Bulger a shot who showed flashes or do we wait two or three years for this thumb problem to heal and then get Warner back in there. The thumb was an issue and a glove wasnt the answer. Time away from starting was. In 04 with the Giants Warner fumbled 12 times in 10 games and some of those games were limited action. So he wasnt ok in 04 either. You said Bulger had some truly bad qb'ing so I checked and he had 11 good games and 5 bad ones 6 if you count the playoff game in 03. Hardly worth re-benching him and bringing back Warner

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    His QB rating has been top 10 but so has Chad Pennington's. As a matter of fact, Pennington and Griese have both led the league in passer rating in their careers.Funny, I get the impression that the stats that illustrate his shortcomings are being ignored.
    A lot of guys have had one good year and then fizzle out Bulger has stayed good. Marc Bulger has also thrown 565 more passes than has Pennington. So while your trying to bring down Bulger that number is skewed. As for the Griese comparison, LOL. Bulger has thrown for almost as many touchdowns in 16 less games. Griese has him by 8td's with 16 games on Bulger. Not really a good comparison unless your just going by qb rating which really is the benchmark by which all qb's should be measured right. If that is the case Bulger has had a qb rating of more than 90 4 out of his 6 years. Greise has had above 90 3 times in ten years impressive. Pennington had a qb rating over 90 3 times in eight years very impressive. Lets not skew the stats to make Bulger look bad, show the stats for what they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    I think most would agree that if the Rams had the most dominant defense of all time and played versus a Kerry Collins led team that Bulger would probably be able to lead the Rams to victory
    Oh so Dilfer is the only below average qb to make it to the Superbowl? How about Neil Odonnel,Stan Humphries,Mark Rypien,Kerry Collins,Rex Grossman etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    Diagnose and correct the problem? You know, like the rookie head coach in Arizona. With all of the arguing, fan polarization, losing, subsequent results and drop in attendance is it possible that perhaps the Rams aren't the best example of good decision making? Remember, they had to pay Warner a starter's salary as well as hike up Bulger's contact when Warner wasn't even there any more. Was it worth all the years of scrap heap backups, depth issues and 1 playoff win to get rid of a team legend who still has the ability to play?
    Remember Warner wasnt being completely truthful about the sevarity of his injury either. They did diagnose it and the medicine wasnt a glove it was time off and the Rams released him. As for your statment that they should have kept warner and Bulger. Problem is Martz and Warner were not seeing eye to eye and warner had a hurt thumb and fumbleitis. It did suck I agree withyou but it happened, still not a reason to hate Bulger. We all loved what Warner did for us the reality is that some of us have been able to let go. Sometimes you have to let go of what you love.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    Is it that unreasonable to expect the replacement to equal or exceed who he's replacing? That's the whole point of making the change isn't it? Is the same argument going to be make for Bennett this year? Or is there more than just statistical value to team icons? If they're going to dump a guy like Bruce, then I sure as hell expect Bennett to produce at a high level. If he's just going to replicate what Bruce did, then I would rather see Bruce doing it.
    Yes it is too much to ask. It's wishful thinking but to expect Bulger to come in and win 14 games and go to the Superbowl is a little much to ask. If you look at it this way Bulger did equal or exceed what warner was doing. He wasnt fumbling the ball all over the field causing us to lose. So in that case yes I expected Bulger not to fumble 6 times in one game. I agree if Bennett doesnt out perform Bruce than Bennett was a big waste of time and money.


    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    The Rams are just so smart about these things. Gabriel, Ferragamo, Dickerson, Everett, Fletcher, Warner, Bruce....please remind me of all the benefits those moves reaped?
    Dickerson was practically holding the Rams hostage and Georgia wasnt going to pay him. As for Fletcher worst move ever made by the Rams in my opinion. Bruce was a cap casualty that I did not agree with at all. Warner was let go because he didnt have it anymore. Whether it was his thumb or his head or whatever it was time for him to move on.
    Just Fix It

  11. #11
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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    You can't argue that Marc bulger doesnt even come close to being the type of Leader in the Huddle that kurt warner was. Kurt Demanded Respect.. Marc is just hoping for it.
    Based on what?

    How many Rams huddles have you been in?

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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Based on what?

    How many Rams huddles have you been in?

    LOL no kidding, how do people know what kind of leader guys are unless the players are telling them?
    Just Fix It

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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    I don't remember much, but didn't a lot of people start questioning KW after 01 and 02 seasons? I seem to think there were many that were bagging on him, his wife, his Christianity, his less than "electric" personality. I also don't think he demanded respect from his team, I think actually some of the more hard edged guys probably thought he was a bit of a hick. The point being is that I also think that some people believe that if you're not going 12-4 every year and going deep in the playoffs then there is one or a few that are totally responsible and they should be taken out and shot. I see it differently though, I don't think it is as easy as that and Ramiser I think you made some good points in this post.

    Joe

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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    I don't think Bulger has gotten such a bad rap. Sure, some people don't like him because they wish we had kept Warner, but I think most have moved past that. Warner took his lumps (both physically and verbally) when he was our quarterback. Bulger is getting the same. I mean back in '06, all the talk was about how underrated Bulger was. No matter who you are or where you are playing, there will always be detractors.

    It is hard to follow a star, but it seems to me that Jackson is among the team's most popular players at this point. Sure, when he makes a bold claim about what he's going to do this season, some people are going to criticize him. When the icon Isaac Bruce guaranteed a win last season, some people criticized him for that, too. It comes with being a star. Period. Regardless of whose boots you're filling.

    I do sympathize with Rodgers, though. First, he had the green room wait as one team after another passed him by. Then every year he had to sit through the Favre decision process. When Favre finally hangs up the boots, the Packers spend a second round pick in the draft on another quarterback...and then draft another one on the second day of the draft. Then, after all that, the big pre-season story in Green Bay is Favre's un-retirement.

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    Re: When Stars are replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    You know as I read through thread after thread about Steven Jackson and Marc Bulger I realize no matter what they do or how well they do it they will never be respected by a boat load of fans. Do they deserve it? No, they dont they are blamed for every little thing maybe even blamed for the star before them being ousted. Good luck Aaron Rodgers you will need it.

    Look at Jackson for instance, he puts up this remarkable season and a lot of people can only comment on his comments. He misses four games and all of the sudden he is injury prone. Not only is he following in Faulks footsteps he is drowning in the wake of stardom he left behind. Of course this isnt fair but for some reason he can do no right. I've seen him compared to T.O. because he has lofty expectations of himself. Man better tone that down fella start thinking you will suck that's a much better attitude. What ever Faulk had people will say Jackson lacks. Faulk could walk on water and Jackson can't even sit in the boat. I hear things like draft Darren McFadden Jackson is getting old. Which is halarious because Jackson is 25 people. Some of these fans just say crazy things out of their rear end that are totally false just because they don't like that he replaced Faulk. Even thought Jackson is looked at as a top five back some people still wanted the Rams to draft McFadden like that would have made us win.

    Then you take Bulger and he had no shot from the get go unless he marched to a Superbowl win. Even then I dont think it would be enough for some people. Bulger was handed the Rams on a silver platter is a funny statement I read recently in a post. The Warner blinders were in full effect. Sure the Rams should have kept Warner on the field and kept losing with Warner just because he won us a Superbowl. Bulger wouldnt still be the starter if he didnt perform well. He is regarded as a top ten qb but it's not good enough because he doent have intangibles and leadership like Warner and all the other superbowl winning qb's like Dilfer. You cant bring up stats when praising Bulger but you get these fanatic Warner backers and I bet stats are used to show how great he was and how he should be in the Hall of Fame. It's funny how that works right. When talking about Bulger your only allowed to talk about things like intangibles and leadership which no one outside the Rams locker room really knows how Bulger is in the huddle. Afterall intangibles and leadership win Superbowls right Trent Dilfer? Dont get me wrong I love Warner and what he did. I still root for him on the Cards, not against us of course. It was time for him to go, what were the Rams supposed to do keep putting him in with the bad thumb or let Bulger take over the team? Bulger has what it takes to lead this team but unfortunately he is Warners replacement and for that he can do no right. Unfortunately qb's dont win superbowl teams do.

    The Packers will now go through what the Rams went through. No matter how well Rodgers performs he will not get the respect. This isnt because he isnt good it will be because he might not have that magical team that Favre had. This is the ultimate team sport. What did Dan Marino lack? I think he was on of the greatest qb's of all time yet no rings. Was he not a good leader? Did he lack the intangibles it took to win. Or was it just that he didnt have that one magical season where everything came together and everyone played as one. Maybe his teams just were not good enough. Possibly the case for Bulger. In 03 our defense gave up over 200 yds rushing to the Panthers yet everyone blames Bulgers int's. Funny how that works huh. What Jackson,Rodgers and Bulger all have in common is that no matter what they do and how well they do it they will always be second fiddle just because they replaced a beloved star. Sometimes people dont realize what they have untill it's gone and the next Ryan Leaf and Lawrence Phillips is waiting in the wings when Bulger and Jackson are replaced. Be careful what you wish for!
    I still wonder how many remember Warner beat out Bulger in camp? Only to be dumped after getting knocked around in the opener vs NYG. Martz scape goated Warner, plain & simple. The things that were to be blamed on Warner kept up until our "elite" status was gone and we were right back to the 90's Rams.

    Bulger simply isn't as good as Warner. Never will be. Jackson at least has a shot of being in Faulk's class.

    But neither will ever get the KW/MF level of glory or respect until they earn it. You earn it in football by winning and or being the best. So far losing has gone hand in hand with the replacements of the 2 most popular Rams since they left Cali.

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