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  1. #16
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    No one is conjuring up the worst of anything. My original post was in response to your "guarantee" that bradford wont miss any time due to his contract dispute. That comment is an optimistic one. You followed up with a series of other overstated comments, including that the money is already set aside.

    If i was a betting man, i would bet that you are correct, that Bradford wont miss time with a holdout. However, it is far from a guaranteed scenario that will be in the case, and the uncertainty is compounded by the uncertain ownership situation. I believe that the rams will pay market. I dont think that they have a choice. However, like all contract negotiations, the devil is in the details. The rams are not going to pay bradford "anything" he wants. They dont have an unlimited amount of money set aside to pay him. Without a cap, a lot of this is thrown into flux, independent of the ownership situation. In any negotiation, it takes two sides to come to an agreement. There are simply no guarantees here, this is a tricky situation.

    Bottom line. Lets all hope that you are correct and that he wont miss time. We are all with you on that point. However, issuing guarantees that he wont miss time because the rams publicly say that they have money set aside is too optimistic, and that is my point. No reason to take it out of context.

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  2. #17
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by turbofargo View Post
    Will it be done before the ownership issue is complete or will it be contingent on the completion of the new deal. When do talks usually heat up?
    It will be done when he signs it - simple as that.
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  3. #18
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    No one is conjuring up the worst of anything. My original post was in response to your "guarantee" that bradford wont miss any time due to his contract dispute. That comment is an optimistic one. You followed up with a series of other overstated comments, including that the money is already set aside.

    If i was a betting man, i would bet that you are correct, that Bradford wont miss time with a holdout. However, it is far from a guaranteed scenario that will be in the case, and the uncertainty is compounded by the uncertain ownership situation. I believe that the rams will pay market. I dont think that they have a choice. However, like all contract negotiations, the devil is in the details. The rams are not going to pay bradford "anything" he wants. They dont have an unlimited amount of money set aside to pay him. Without a cap, a lot of this is thrown into flux, independent of the ownership situation. In any negotiation, it takes two sides to come to an agreement. There are simply no guarantees here, this is a tricky situation.

    Bottom line. Lets all hope that you are correct and that he wont miss time. We are all with you on that point. However, issuing guarantees that he wont miss time because the rams publicly say that they have money set aside is too optimistic, and that is my point. No reason to take it out of context.

    Ramming speed to all

    general counsel

    I want to believe that Bradford won't miss time, and I hope that will be the case.


    However, you are right on the money.

  4. #19
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Of course the Rams knew they were in possession of the #1 pick and they also knew the ballpark of the contract cost of said draft pick.

    Of course the Rams had monies set aside for payroll.

    Like any business the Rams understand what going rates are (Well, maybe not seeing how some FA's were overpaid recently) but a business will negotiate to try to keep as much as their money as they can.

    I wonder what perks are asked for which might hinder negotiations. At what these guys make we would think they could supply anything they need for themselves? As was stated previously in this thread, the devil is in the details....
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  5. #20
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I think General Counsel's bigger concern is that Ownership won't offer even the "reasonable" $48-50 million guaranteed/$80 million overall. All we have officially from the Rams is that money is set aside in the budget for picks. They never said how much money Chippy Boy made available.

    Also, assuming the worst has been a pretty safe bet the last 3-4 years out of Rams Park. Don't blame us for doing it now.
    GC is always a worst case scenario guy, and why the "Chippy Boy" slam.

    Chip's the only one who's done ANYTHING for this team in the last 30 years. His mother certainly didn't, and neither did Dumb and Dumber.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  6. #21
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasRam View Post
    GC is always a worst case scenario guy, and why the "Chippy Boy" slam.

    Chip's the only one who's done ANYTHING for this team in the last 30 years. His mother certainly didn't, and neither did Dumb and Dumber.
    Please...just because he's not as parsimonious as Georgia doesn't make him a good owner or one with a wide open checkbook. He's the bare minimum to keep this thing from completely falling apart. Compared to what an NFL owner could and should be doing for the team, he's not really doing a good job, and the slams are deserved.

    Additionally, he was completely uninvolved with the team until Georgia died. Gee, thanks Chip. A blind guy could have seen that the ship was going down in flames, and he didn't do anything to stop it.

    The sooner this franchise is out of the clutches of the Rosenblooms, the better.

  7. #22
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Anyone calling me a "worst case scenario guy" isnt reading my posts very carefully. I would love some to cite examples of what they are talking about in making that comment about me. I come at various things from different angles and perspectives than many others on the board and i tend to avoid making extreme comments on every single thing that comes up. It never ceases to amaze me how many people are so darn sure on so many things and yet draw those conclusions with insufficient data.

    I think one of the things i do very very frequently on this board (and in my job every day) is to challenge people to back up their opinions and statements with actual evidence. I acknowledge that everyone is entitled to their own view and thats why i love the board so much. However, having an opinion is one thing. Having an "informed" opinion is something else. There are tons of points on which reasonable people can differ, but when i see people making sweeping generalizations and conclusions based on incorrect or missing data, you bet i am going to challenge them on it. I dont see how that makes me a worst case scenario guy. I did predict that the rams would win three games last year and as the evidence proved, i was wildly over optimistic in that prediction!

    As to the comment on chip, that is just flat out off base. Did chip have anything at all to do with bringing the rams a title in 1999? Did or did not georgia pony up the money for faulk and for that matter for trent green to get us a qb? Did or did not georgia pony up the money to sign warner, faulk bruce holt and pace to long term deals? The comment that ownership has done nothing before chip in the last 30 years ignores the reality of the title. If you want to blame georgia and the people she hired (ie shaw and ziggy) for making mistakes, why dont you also give them credit for the things that went right?

    I am NOT a big georgia fan by any stretch of the imagination. Chip has done absolutely nothing for this team other than issue countless denials from day one that the team was for sale, when anyone with any basic knowledge of estate tax issues would have concluded from day one that statement was just flat out false. I see no evidence that chip has made any long term financial commitment to the team. I am not blaming him at all, his obligation is to do what is best for him and his family, not the fans. Somehow people forget that these teams are owned by people with financial investments. The Rams are NOT a public trust. They are for profit business. Sure the fans are a constituency, but Chip is entitled to liquidate his asset, pay his taxes, take the cash and do whatever he and his sister want to do with their money for the rest of their lives.

    Ramming speed to all

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    Last edited by general counsel; -05-17-2010 at 10:34 PM.


  8. #23
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Please...just because he's not as parsimonious as Georgia doesn't make him a good owner or one with a wide open checkbook. He's the bare minimum to keep this thing from completely falling apart. Compared to what an NFL owner could and should be doing for the team, he's not really doing a good job, and the slams are deserved.

    Additionally, he was completely uninvolved with the team until Georgia died. Gee, thanks Chip. A blind guy could have seen that the ship was going down in flames, and he didn't do anything to stop it.

    The sooner this franchise is out of the clutches of the Rosenblooms, the better.
    First of all, GC - I misspoke. My bad.

    Peoria - yeah, you're right. All he did was fire Shawgmunt, and hire Devaney and Spagnoulo. Oh, and pay two #2 draft choices a couple of bucks, and is about to pay a #1 a lot more. You seem to equate being a good owner with spending, which explains whay Oakland, Washington and Dallas are doing so well.

    He was completely uninvolved with the team until Georgia died? HUH? What does that even mean? Do you know that he didn't ask to be involved? Or that his brother, (true heir to the team), did want to be involved was fired. You're argument, if it can even be called that is completely bogus. Period.
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  9. #24
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    I don't think Bradford will hold out either, but you never know. There's a reason teams like to get the #1 guy locked up before the actual draft, and the Rams didn't. It's silly to guarantee what's going to happen one way or another, because we just don't know. In an uncapped year, being a first overall pick quarterback, going to a team with ownership in flux, I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some delays in an agreement that caused him to miss at least some portion of camp, even if it means just being tardy for the first day.
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  10. #25
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasRam View Post
    First of all, GC - I misspoke. My bad.

    Peoria - yeah, you're right. All he did was fire Shawgmunt, and hire Devaney and Spagnoulo. Oh, and pay two #2 draft choices a couple of bucks, and is about to pay a #1 a lot more. You seem to equate being a good owner with spending, which explains whay Oakland, Washington and Dallas are doing so well.

    He was completely uninvolved with the team until Georgia died? HUH? What does that even mean? Do you know that he didn't ask to be involved? Or that his brother, (true heir to the team), did want to be involved was fired. You're argument, if it can even be called that is completely bogus. Period.
    If he had been involved with the team, meaning knowing what the organization was doing and what decisions were being made, at all prior to Georgia's death, Shawmunt would have been fired...well...as soon as was convenient following the mourning period. Instead he chose to do nothing, and effectively wasted an entire year that this organization could have spent rebuilding. Seriously-this franchise might as well have not existed for the 2008 season. What we are hoping to experience in 2011 should have been happening this season.

    I refuse to blindly applaud a guy for putting neophytes in charge of every single decision-making aspect of the team at once. Especially when they turn around and haul out the new worst season in franchise history out of their collective derrieres. No, I didn't expect the team to be good, but a 1 win season means that the current group of decision-makers made their fair share of mistakes as well as Shawmunt. Devaney may be fairly good at comparatively evaluating individual players at certain positions. That does not automatically connote to having the knowledge, vision, and ability to assemble a winning NFL team. We hired the best hot coordinator on the market (arguably anyway), but the best hot coordinators do not always make the transition well to head coach, nor do they always have the knowledge, vision, and ability to assemble a winning NFL team.

    And has Rosenbloom paid serious cash in any situation beyond where he absolutely has to? Rookie contracts don't really count, because we have a highly limited amount of negotiating power to cut costs there. Have the Rams made any serious attempts to market themselves outside of metro St. Louis in the last couple of years? The franchise's long term economic health depends on getting a tangible fanbase in Missouri and Illinois outside of St. Louis and its suburbs.

  11. #26
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    Re: When will Bradford's contract be done

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    People talk about Bradford's leverage, and he certainly has plenty, but I also think he will be highly motivated to sign before camp. Don't forget, he had to sit out most of last season, and I'm sure he's itching to get back on the field.
    he doesn't seem like the kind of DBag Crabtree was, he seems like he's pretty chill, my hopes are high that he won't hold out.

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