Why?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by tanus

I couldn't disagree more considering the situation of the team. Short yardage running is a whole different ballgame. Its line vs. line and if you think our OL at the time could beat any DL in the NFL then you must either be Scott Linehan or his long lost relative.

I don't think I said I thought this line could beat any DL in the league, but I do think we should be able to gain one yard on two runs. I really don't have much faith at all in this line, but at that point I thought playing smash mouth football and just pounding it forward for one yard gives us a better chance of success than dropping back for a pass play with multiple routes and more complications.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree on this issue.

[laram0]

Originally Posted by Goldenfleece

I thought the run on the first 4th & 1 was the right call. I thought the run on the 3rd & 1 was the right call. That last time, though, I think I would have gone for something through the air. On the whole, though, I think Linehan called a good game.

I agree 100%. Everyone in the Dome knew the RAMS were going to run it up the gut again. That last call should have been a fake handoff to Leonard and a quick pass.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti

And if we would have passed and not convered, everyone would be asking why we didn't run ...

Let it rest people!

This puts it in proper perspective, without question. If we don't convert with a pass, everybody is screaming for blood because Linehan didn't run it. Calling a run was the correct move IMO and gave us the best chance to convert.

[tanus]

I give up. 0-4 and it's still our best chance to succeed.

[RAM-BO]

Originally Posted by tanus

Why take the ball out of Bulger's hand? 2 straight runs up the gut. Brilliant Linehan you moron.

I don't know tanus because a remember in a previous game it was 2rd n goal from a few yards out and we passed twice and had to punt. It is kind of hard to decifer whether the coach made the right decision or not but I think Linehan made the right call with the wrong personel.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by tanus

I give up. 0-4 and it's still our best chance to succeed.

Actually, we were 0-3 at that point and yes, IMO it was still our best chance to succeed.

[tanus]

Do you have a good reason why you think it gave us the best possible chance to succeed? I still haven't heard anyone say why they would rather put the game in the hands of the banged up OL and Brian Leonard over our two best players on the field at the time in Marc Bulger and Torry Holt.

Did you guys not notice what happened to our running game after SJ and Cogs went out? With SJ and a healthy OL, I have no problems with trying to run for it.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by tanus

Do you have a good reason why you think it gave us the best possible chance to succeed? I still haven't heard anyone say why they would rather put the game in the hands of the banged up OL and Brian Leonard over our two best players on the field at the time in Marc Bulger and Torry Holt.

Did you guys not notice what happened to our running game after SJ and Cogs went out? With SJ and a healthy OL, I have no problems with trying to run for it.

I thought you gave up?

Okay, here's what I think, it was a single yard against the Browns. Yes they stopped 3 other short yardage tries, but like Nick mentioned earlier, when you consider all the bad things that can happen on a pass play, a run to get 1 yard is the best bet. It's true Bulger was having a very good day, but he still had times where he was erratic and the Browns were pinning their ears back and getting close to him most of the game. Taking everything into consideration, the call was a prudent one IMO.

[RAMFANRAIDERHATER]

These discussions are pointless, if you ask me. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

As pointed out by someone, if Bulger passes, and it gets picked, you can bet the house that the Linehan bashers would have started a thread calling him out about how stupid he was for passing and not running for 1 lousy yard. The argument that we shouldn't have relied on our Oline for a short run makes little to no sense to me. They have to block either way, and run-blocking is said to be easier than pass-blocking. Also, I read where "everyone in the house knew we were going to run it up the gut", so we should have run something out of the shotgun formation. Well, if we run it from the shotgun formation, wouldn't everyone in the house be pretty damn sure we're going to throw it? I doubt we'd run it from the shotgun on 4th and 1, so what leads anyone to believe that we'd be any more successful throwing it? Holt and Bulger are not a sure deal. Not this year. Bulger has had trouble finding an open passing lane, and Holt has had problems getting separation.

I think it was the right call, just piss-poor execution. Did Leonard hit the right hole? Did someone miss a blocking assignment? Who knows. ...or did the Browns just outplay us on that play? It's so easy to question a play call, especially after it doesn't work. The Browns are like 29th in the league in rushing defense and 30th in pass defense. I would like to think that even a group of third stringers could gain a stinkin' yard on the ground.

Like much of this season, we just didn't execute when we needed to.

[Goldenfleece]

Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike

I thought you gave up?

Okay, here's what I think, it was a single yard against the Browns. Yes they stopped 3 other short yardage tries, but like Nick mentioned earlier, when you consider all the bad things that can happen on a pass play, a run to get 1 yard is the best bet.

Aw, what's the worst that could happen on a pass play? A turnover? Failure on fourth down results in a turnover anyway! I'm just looking at a trend here:

Originally Posted by NFL Game Center: Play-by-Play

1-1-CLE 1 (5:49) 39-S.Jackson up the middle to CLE 1 for no gain (26-S.Jones).
2-1-CLE 1 (5:16) 10-M.Bulger pass short middle to 81-T.Holt for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-CLE 33 (14:14) 23-B.Leonard left tackle to CLE 33 for no gain (91-S.Smith, 55-W.McGinest).
4-1-CLE 33 (13:32) 23-B.Leonard up the middle to CLE 33 for no gain (98-Roba.Smith).

3-1-CLE 16 (2:33) 23-B.Leonard left tackle to CLE 16 for no gain (54-A.Davis).

That's what we're looking at as we get ready to call the fourth down play. Five situations where we needed to gain only one yard. We rushed on four of them each for no gain. The only and-1 play we converted was a pass. So what we do with the game on the line?

[tanus]

Nice one Goldenfleece.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by Goldenfleece

Aw, what's the worst that could happen on a pass play? A turnover? Failure on fourth down results in a turnover anyway!

We're obviously on different pages here. You're looking at the end result which is we make it or we don't, I'm looking at the things that could thrwart a play from being successful. A pass can be dropped, a throw can be errant, the timing could be off, the ball can be tipped, Bulger could be sacked or the ball could be intercepted as you mentioned. A run play can be stuffed. I'll take the run option for one yard every time, but that's just me.

Originally Posted by Goldenfleece

That's what we're looking at as we get ready to call the fourth down play. Five situations where we needed to gain only one yard. We rushed on four of them each for no gain. The only and-1 play we converted was a pass. So what we do with the game on the line?

Once again, I would call a run up the middle.

[tanus]

You must like to bang your head up against a wall too.

So the only thing that can happen bad on a run play is it gets stuffed? What if the QB and RB fumble the exchange? What if the RB fumbles? What if the RB trips behind the line? What if an OL steps on the QB's foot as he is turning back to hand the ball off?

Lots of things can go wrong on any given play. To use that as your reasoning for selecting a running play that hasn't worked all game long is weak, IMO.

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by tanus

You must like to bang your head up against a wall too.

Aw, but I never said I give up.

Originally Posted by tanus

So the only thing that can happen bad on a run play is it gets stuffed? What if the QB and RB fumble the exchange? What if the RB fumbles? What if the RB trips behind the line? What if an OL steps on the QB's foot as he is turning back to hand the ball off?

Lots of things can go wrong on any given play. To use that as your reasoning for selecting a running play that hasn't worked all game long is weak, IMO.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I was referencing things that were actually happening in the game against Cleveland. If you want to make the argument that some kind of pass play has just as much of a chance for failure as a straight run up the middle, you're fooling yourself, IMO.

[tanus]

If you want to reference things that actually happened in the game against Cleveland, that's fine, just don't include Bulger being sacked or an interception as references. Bulger was not sacked once in the game (Frerotte did) and his only interception came after when it was do or die time for the RAMS.

You are pretty much proving my point actually. The passing game was working very well as evidenced by the stats. The short yardage running game was not working at all. The last 5 runs with 1 yard to go failed. What more game references do you want?

On a side note, I think I have set my personal record for posts in a day.