Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    general counsel Guest

    Why should he take less than walter jones?

    The only thing that counts in nfl contracts is guaranteed money. We all know that, so lets not get dazzled by the overall contract offer. According to the post dispatch today, the rams offer to pace is "several million less" in guaranteed money then walter jones took.

    Can someone please explain to me why pace should take less than walter jones? Why is pace greedy under these circumstances. Seattle has the same cap issues as we have. The circumstances are virtually identical. Same team entire career, same length of service, same health, same value to their team (we actually have more of a vertical passing offense so if anything pace is more valuable to us) and according to nearly every nfl expert you read, the two guys are about as even in terms of ability and performance as possible.

    I believe it is very clear that walter jones took less than his free market value to stay with seattle. He got a lot of money but less than he would have if he had been a pure free agent with no compensation required. Expecting Pace to take less than what is already a discount to market is just unreasonable.

    It is incumbent on the rams to find a way to offer the same deal that walter jones got. I have said all along and stand by my guns on this. If pace wants a penny more than jones got, someone can criticize his demands. If the rams arent willing to pay what jones took (ie a discounted price for a superstar who took less to stay home) than i blame the rams.

    Sign the Big Man

    general counsel


  2. #2
    elAcky Guest

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    I think comparing the situation to Seattle is ludicrous... they are known to overpay for players. Last thing we should do is follow their lead.

  3. #3
    AugustaRamFan's Avatar
    AugustaRamFan is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Augusta, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    493
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    GC - I do not get the impression that anyone is saying Opie is not deserving of a huge payday. He is imho as well.

    The Rams just cannot continue to be the payor. Too rich for Ram blood! If he want's to stay for slightly less, he has one me over for all time. In Opie's case, I just do not see that as a realistic outcome.

  4. #4
    general counsel Guest

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Augusta, slightly less than what. That is my point. It appears that he is prepared to stay for less than market rate. But isnt there a point at which you can argue that we arent offering enough.

    As far as saying seattle is known to overpay for players, i dont really understand the reference. I appreciate that they overpaid badly for wistrom, but many people on this board felt that the rams letting wistrom go was a mistake at the time. All teams have overpaid players. Walter Jones is a first rate tackle a multi all pro who got about the same money up front give or take a bit as robert gallery who had never played a down in the nfl. Exactly how is that an overpay el acky?

  5. #5
    elAcky Guest

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Seattle followed Oakland... and we follow Seattle.. i think not !!

    Seattle have made their bed... the rest of their OL will try and lay in it in the coming years.. after all they do have one of the best lines !! very different to our situation.

    Everyone on this forum thought that we should have made Wiltrom a decent offer... i think there were few who actually thought we should have matched.

  6. #6
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,533
    Rep Power
    154

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Quote Originally Posted by elAcky
    Seattle followed Oakland... and we follow Seattle.. i think not !!
    Like it or not, that's how it works. Just because the figure is huge and damaging doesn't mean we can demand less and then criticize the guy for not signing for way less than what he could probably get elsewhere.

    If an untested rookie like Robert Gallery can sign a seven year deal worth $60 million with $14 million in signing bonus money, then we need to understand a veteran Pro Bowl tackle is going to cost us some dough.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Four
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  7. #7
    AugustaRamFan's Avatar
    AugustaRamFan is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Augusta, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    493
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    GC - The sum the Rams seem to be offering is just below market (for a player of Opie's stature) and slightly below what Jone's got in Seattle. (that is my understanding anyway)

    For some us (not most or all) the salary you earn is part of the picture, you can accept less, if it does not hurt you financially, you like the job, you like the people you work with (your Team) and you think your sacrafice will result in some form of success in the future (another super bowl perhaps or a bigger payday). To me it is that type of sacrafice and teamsmanship (if you will) that separates the great players and great teams from the rest of the pack.

    You could argue that pro-athletes are above all this - but a job is a job.

    I would have to say that taking a Mil or two less (after taxes) is not going be only decision driver in Opies case.

  8. #8
    elAcky Guest

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    I really think we don't give the Rams FO enough credit.. Raiders are a mess when it comes to FA and contract negotiations and right now, their place is exactly where is should be, drafting early. It would have been easy for the Rams FO to succumb to the pressures that these imbiciles have placed on the situation.. but luckily they have used common sense. Sure, Pace can ask for whatever he wants based on his assessment of the market and i'm sure there will be takers... but the simple reality is that we cannot pay Pace that amount of money and expect to go back to the SB any time soon.. I'm sure Pace realises that but, unlike Faulk, i doubt he cares.

    I think looking at the Seattle/Raiders situation, the only thing that i see is 2 franchises heading in the wrong direction e.g. what have Seattle done to improve their receiving corp... why couldn;t they hang onto half their defense.. yet they payed one player on their star OL a whole bunch... i'm sure the rest will want a piece of that soon enough.. They franchise a RB when there is a deep FA and draft pool... totally ilogical to me... maybe their inconsistency is inherited from the men in suits!!

  9. #9
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,533
    Rep Power
    154

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Quote Originally Posted by elAcky
    I think looking at the Seattle/Raiders situation, the only thing that i see is 2 franchises heading in the wrong direction e.g. what have Seattle done to improve their receiving corp... why couldn;t they hang onto half their defense.. yet they payed one player on their star OL a whole bunch... i'm sure the rest will want a piece of that soon enough.. They franchise a RB when there is a deep FA and draft pool... totally ilogical to me... maybe their inconsistency is inherited from the men in suits!!
    I'm going to make a couple comments on this...

    -Seattle, like the Rams, would have looked significantly worse on offense had they not signed Jones to a long-term deal. They acquired more cap room by signing him to the deal they did, based on my understanding.

    -The Seahawks also reached a deal with their quarterback, who would have entered free agency had they not done something. Basically, their hand was forced.

    -There's no way Ken Lucas is worth what the Panthers gave him. Yes, he's an up and coming young cornerback. But a six-year deal and nearly $14M in bonus money? No way.

    -The deal Okeafor actually signed with the Cards... KFFL reports he turned down a similar deal with Seattle. Therefore, I'm assuming to keep him, Seattle would have had to pay more... which I woudn't have done.

    -As for Alexander, he's on the market. Better to franchise him and try to deal him than let him walk and receive no compensation.

    -From what I've read, Seattle is currently trying to improve their receiving unit by looking into guys like Travis Taylor. Ed Hartwell is scheduled for a visit, as well as LB Keith Adams and CB Kelly Herndon. It seems to me Seattle's strategy is to try and wait out the initial scramble and go after what's left for lower prices. Can't say I disagree with that strategy.

    I don't want to turn this into a Seahawks discussion, but I think you're oversimplifying their stance.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Four
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  10. #10
    rammiser's Avatar
    rammiser is online now Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
    Age
    41
    Posts
    2,023
    Rep Power
    58

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    The reason Pace deserves the same contract as Jones is because he is two years younger and is the staple of our offensive line. Pace wants the guaranteed money because that is his security. If he goes down tomorrow he is going to get that money if he never plays again. I'm not against a trade but, I'm not going to trust putting two rookies or any of the players we have on the left side to protect Bulger. Contrary to what a lot of people think, I think the Rams are close to being a contender again if the defense gets shored up. Considering our drafts the last few years if we did get the 13th pick I have no faith that who the Rams pick will turn out to be a good player. We have several high picks that arent exactly living up to their billing already(Archuletta,Lewis,Pickett,Kenndedy). So are you going to trust that if we trade Pace and get a tackle from the Texans and thier 1st pick we can fill that hole, I'm not. When Pace is in the lineup there are no worries at that position. So if the Texans want him we should get plenty of compensation back from them. Pace does deserve the money because the hole he leaves could be damaging for years to come.

    GO RAMS RE-TOOL FOR 05 :ramlogo:

  11. #11
    rampete is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Southern Cal
    Posts
    654
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    i'm under the impression that the rams FO is not going to improve the numbers of their current offer on the table, the reason being that this is their fiscal principle in regards to building and maintaining a viable professional playoff caliber team...

    they convinced marc bulger to take less than his market value, torry holt and leonard little too...perhaps their selling point is this, play for the rams with cap friendly contracts and be a part of playoff contention every year...otherwise you're welcome to leave for the big bucks elsewhere...

    this is a risky calculated chance, which unfortunately led to some departures such as london fletcher, grant wistrom, dre bly and others...but it's also the reason why the rams have had the ability to keep the core of this prolific offense to stay together. the players, like holt, bruce, faulk, bulger, little, etc.., opted to forego testing the FA market to play here. i have to believe they must be dissapointed to see pace set to leave, but not crying over it...

  12. #12
    adarian_too's Avatar
    adarian_too is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    The Hollow
    Posts
    1,378
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Pace should take whatever he thinks is fair. Unfortunately what he thinks, or the FO thinks, or the Fans think just never seem to match.

    It's a tiresome dance. The song is not a classic. And too many toes keep getting stepped on. Team continuity should be a common goal for both the FO and Pace. 3 years later it is time to move on.

  13. #13
    elAcky Guest

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Seattle is all over the place... it really is as simple as that:

    your receivers drop catches and cost you games so you keep them around, bring in some 40 yo has been and then cut him.. during FA you pay minimal attention to bringing in help. Your also drafting outside the top spots so the quality WR's will be gone.

    Lot of quality RB's around, you have a 1500 yd who won't sign... you have an outstanding OL... do what Denver did and trade away for DB or OT.

    On this, you have one of the leagues best OL, that almost made your RB #1.. so you go out and pay a colossal anount to just one of these guys... Houston should have been talking to Seattle not the Rams. Seattle could have filled that hole with a serviceable player and still have had one of the best lines and running games in the league with just about any starting back that is out there.

    You go out and spend a crazy amount the year before on a DE that had a mediocre season, not a playmaker but solid... but then you allow a playmaker CB to leave without a fight and while your at it you let your other DE leave..

    all i see is a mess... sorry.. nothing makes sense with these guys except signing Hasselbeck. They could have done without both Walter Jones and Alexander and still have been a better team on Offense if they brought in a couple of decent WR's. Their defense will be a joke this year.. good for us..

  14. #14
    Tony Soprano's Avatar
    Tony Soprano is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Jersey
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,373
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    We need that money to pay players committed to the Rams.. Our future stars
    and to be able to be somewhat aggressive in Free Agency..

    Pace is on the downside of his career, especially with his workout habits.

    Imagine his attitude after signing a BIG, FAT GUARANTEED Contract.

    .

  15. #15
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,533
    Rep Power
    154

    Re: Why should he take less than walter jones?

    Quote Originally Posted by elAcky
    They could have done without both Walter Jones and Alexander and still have been a better team on Offense if they brought in a couple of decent WR's.
    You're saying the Seahawks could have let Jones and Alexander walk, bring in one or two decent WRs, and would have been BETTER offensively?

    Wow, I really disagree with that assessment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Soprano
    Imagine his attitude after signing a BIG, FAT GUARANTEED Contract.
    I'm having a hard time imagining, so perhaps you can explain it to me. My guess is that, with a contract signed, Pace would show up to all the offseason workouts and camp like everyone else does, and you probably wouldn't hear much out of him, since he's not the kind of guy who is in the news mouthing off a lot.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Four
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •