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    Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    There has been mucho debate as to what the Rams should do with the #2 pick. Do you we tie up a ton of money in an offensive tackle? This is a very risky proposition at the #2 slot, as there really doesn't seem to be that head and shoulders above the rest talent out there this year. There were some questions revolving around Jake Long last year, and none of these guys is on that level at this point ....

    Do you invest #2 money in a linebacker? Yes, Curry is a physical specimen, and he dominated for Wake Forest, against what some may say was inferior competition. He's projected as a SAM linebacker, while we really need a MIKE. Do we want to try to force yet another player to play a new position? What if he cannot play the MIKE and has to play SAM? Well, excellent SAM linebackers can be had for much less money and are often found further down in the draft ....

    All that aside, is their truly a bigger need than WR on this team at the moment? Barron can play LT, he has shown this. We do need some depth at LT, but do you pay a player #2 money for instant depth? there has to be a better option in free agency, or on the street, as the start of the season nears. We have enough players to fill an adequate linebacking corp, if anything, Spags scheme will help significantly. We are drastically improved in the secondary, and I think we will get the absolute most we can out of Tye Hill, Wade, and King this season ....

    But let me say this, with Holt almost certainly being gone ....

    AVERY, BURTON, STANLEY, LOOKER, CADDELL ....

    Yes, there you go, you are looking at our receiving corp right there, as of right now. Those are the players that are currently on the roster that saw significant time on the field or practice squad with us last year ....

    Sure, Avery showed steady improvement. Burton has all the tools to be a star in this league, but will his injuries hold him back? We don't know what we have in Stanley at this point, as one long spectacular catch does not make a successful receiver. Looker is solid, but is aging and not a real threat in any regard. Caddell is a hard worker, but little is known about him ....

    Sure, we are likely going to have a dominant running game, at least for sometime. We have something special brewing in the middle of our offensive line. The tackle situation is still questionable, but we will no doubt be able to pound it inside. But how long can that last without credible threats on the outside? They are going to double Avery relentlessly until somebody shows they can make something happen. Either two of these other guys need to step up, or we need some help somewhere. I think Burton is going to be make the transition nicely, but we desparetly need a third option. Amani Toomer, Joey Galloway, etc. - these are not the guys that can solve our problems. We need to find a gem in the draft, somehow, someway - a guy that can step in and immediately produce. We saw it last year with Avery, Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson, we need another guy like this. Is it at #2? Doubtful, Crabtree and Macklin may be a reach here, but it may be a risk that is neccesary to take ...

    I am as confused as any, but we need something, or we'll be seeing 8 and 9 in the box all day long ....
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -03-13-2009 at 01:26 PM.


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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    i believe you meant to put Burton on your list instead of holt, but its all good just letting you know so you can fix it, i know what you meant

    yes WR is a need on the team, but i dont believe we should take Crabtree at #2, for some inexplicable reason he scares me ( and he has before any of this surgery stuff came up) to me, he seems like a better version of Marquis Colston, because hes not very fast but he is a possesion reciever, we'll see how it shapes up, but i would be willing to spend the number 2 pick on Curry or maybe even Raji depending on all his numbers

    i know its scary with Avery and Burton starting, but the more playing time they get the better they will develop (hopefully) so all we can do is hope for good coaching and hope for the best
    Built RAM tough

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    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsplaya16 View Post
    i believe you meant to put Burton on your list instead of holt, but its all good just letting you know so you can fix it, i know what you meant

    yes WR is a need on the team, but i dont believe we should take Crabtree at #2, for some inexplicable reason he scares me ( and he has before any of this surgery stuff came up) to me, he seems like a better version of Marquis Colston, because hes not very fast but he is a possesion reciever, we'll see how it shapes up, but i would be willing to spend the number 2 pick on Curry or maybe even Raji depending on all his numbers

    i know its scary with Avery and Burton starting, but the more playing time they get the better they will develop (hopefully) so all we can do is hope for good coaching and hope for the best

    I'm not concerned about Avery or Burton, as I think both will develop nicely. What I am concerned about is what lies behind them, and what would happen if one of them were to get injured ...

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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    I've got mixed feelings on this.

    First of all, however, I'm starting to definitely lean away from OT at #2, for the reasons you stated, and do not want a LB at that spot either.

    What's scary is a) the number of busts at WR and b) even if they are good, there is still s learning curve.

    I feel that with Avery, Burton, Stanley (with a year under their belts), Looker (yes, I would keep him), McMichael, Fells, and the 2-3 practice squad players, we might be better off taking Raji at #2.

    To put it more succinctly, @ pick #2,

    LB - disappointed, (not a MLB, and I'm OK with Spoon)
    OT - hopeful (that he ends up being worth the ridiculous $ he'll get)
    WR - happy (prefer Maclin for return skills)
    DT - ecstatic - think he's the real deal
    "the Heart Lies and the Head Plays Tricks with us, but the Eyes See True".

  5. #5
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    I saw Raji last night on the NFL Network, and he looked to be in great shape for a 330 lbs tackle ...

    I've just got a feeling that #2 is a bad spot to be this year ....

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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    I can see your point, although I think you are severely understating the needs we have at OT and LB.

    Our only true starting tackle obviously is Barron and there are already a few threads out there debating that guy. I have seen the discussions about moving Bell to RT, but there are no guarantees that will work out well for us. In fact during the season last year, I remember most people on this site were not particularly thrilled with his work at LG. But as it stands, our starting tackles are Barron and Bell. The dynamic duo it is not. And our depth beyond them is nonexistant. I could be wrong but I think Goldberg is a free agent and has not been resigned yet.

    Linebacker I suppose is in a little better shape than OT but it still could use an upgrade. Assuming we move Spoon to WLB, that will probably leave us right now with Draft in the middle and Culberson on the strong side. Leaving us Pisa, Chamberlain, and Vobora for depth. That starting lineup is shaky at best. Maybe they decide to just go with the same lineup from last year with Spoon in the middle, but history has proven that lineup to be pretty ineffective. Saying that the new coaching staff and scheme is going to improve our defense probably has a certain degree of truth to it. But when I look at Spoon - Draft - Culberson as our starting lineup, I see one starter, one guy we signed for depth, and one undrafted free agent. I think an upgrade is certainly in order.

    Which brings us to WR. I agree this is a definite area of need for us (how did we get so many holes!?). But I don't know if I am willing to part with our first (or maybe even second) pick to get one. First of all, Avery, Burton, and Stanley have all flashed some ability. They are young, hungry, and FAST. Second of all, I think if you draft an OT and Bulger gets better protection, it is going to make these young guys look even better out there. Third with Shurmer coming from Philly I would imagine that we are going to be running a similar variation of the Philly offense. They have been making that offense work for years with a bunch of no names at receiver. Todd Pinkston, Hank Baskett, Greg Lewis? And every year McNabb throws for a bazillion yards when he is healthy. Assuming we can do something similar to that here in St Louis, I think we can hold off on signing a WR until the second day. Especially since there seems to be some talent and depth to this year's WR crop and I think we may be able to grab a steal in the third round.

  7. #7
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    I can see your point, although I think you are severely understating the needs we have at OT and LB.

    Our only true starting tackle obviously is Barron and there are already a few threads out there debating that guy. I have seen the discussions about moving Bell to RT, but there are no guarantees that will work out well for us. In fact during the season last year, I remember most people on this site were not particularly thrilled with his work at LG. But as it stands, our starting tackles are Barron and Bell. The dynamic duo it is not. And our depth beyond them is nonexistant. I could be wrong but I think Goldberg is a free agent and has not been resigned yet.

    Linebacker I suppose is in a little better shape than OT but it still could use an upgrade. Assuming we move Spoon to WLB, that will probably leave us right now with Draft in the middle and Culberson on the strong side. Leaving us Pisa, Chamberlain, and Vobora for depth. That starting lineup is shaky at best. Maybe they decide to just go with the same lineup from last year with Spoon in the middle, but history has proven that lineup to be pretty ineffective. Saying that the new coaching staff and scheme is going to improve our defense probably has a certain degree of truth to it. But when I look at Spoon - Draft - Culberson as our starting lineup, I see one starter, one guy we signed for depth, and one undrafted free agent. I think an upgrade is certainly in order.

    Which brings us to WR. I agree this is a definite area of need for us (how did we get so many holes!?). But I don't know if I am willing to part with our first (or maybe even second) pick to get one. First of all, Avery, Burton, and Stanley have all flashed some ability. They are young, hungry, and FAST. Second of all, I think if you draft an OT and Bulger gets better protection, it is going to make these young guys look even better out there. Third with Shurmer coming from Philly I would imagine that we are going to be running a similar variation of the Philly offense. They have been making that offense work for years with a bunch of no names at receiver. Todd Pinkston, Hank Baskett, Greg Lewis? And every year McNabb throws for a bazillion yards when he is healthy. Assuming we can do something similar to that here in St Louis, I think we can hold off on signing a WR until the second day. Especially since there seems to be some talent and depth to this year's WR crop and I think we may be able to grab a steal in the third round.
    It's not that I am understating or don't understand the needs, but I don't think that we should pay one of these OT's or LB's a #2 type salary ...

    It's just not worth the risk, and drafting an OT at #2 that doesn't pan out could set this franchise and it's development back a year. That's ALOT of money to risk ...

    In my humblest of opinions, we need to trade down, and get some better values ...

  8. #8
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    ... I've just got a feeling that #2 is a bad spot to be this year ....
    This is a good point I believe .. Every so often there will be a "can't miss" player available to teams picking in the top five, but more often not. The whole premise of teams with losing records picking higher than winning teams is to promote parity. In this day and age however, with the salary cap and the huge dollar contracts that are doled out each year to top five picks, I can't help but wonder if this so-called advantage is becoming more of a hindrance than a boon. How often do teams trade up into the top 3 or even top 5? Lately not many. It is steadily becoming too expensive. A team with a winning record picking at #16 or lower at least won't be paying a king's ransom if they miss on a player. This is yet another reason why rookie salaries should be capped and slotted .. It will probably never happen though ...

    On the issue of the Rams' receivers, we'll likely see at least a couple of new names added to our roster. Probably a veteran who gets whacked for salary reasons and has to play elsewhere for less money, and hopefully a good rookie player as well. (no idea as to which round though). It would be interesting to know how Pat Shurmer regards our current crop of wrs as to their ability to mesh with his system. Perhaps we're better off than we think. I hope Randy McMichael will be retained and have an opportunity to contribute. He would make a nice target for Marc - particularly if opposing Ds try and stack 8 or more in the box ..

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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    I don't think any reach is involved with Crabtree at the #2 spot. He is probably the best player in the draft. His foot concerns me though.

    Curry may be the best or 2nd best player in the draft, but drafting a player at his position that high concerns me.

    A reach may be involved for any of the OT's at #2 because I don't see a Joe Thomas or Jake Long here.

    My real hope is that they can trade down, but I think it's very unlikely to happen.

    The good news is that this draft is deep in WR's. If they take Crabtree then they can go OT in the 2nd round. Maybe Britton. Some are saying that Oher is slipping now too and could fall to the early 2nd.

    If they go OT with their first pick, then they can still find a very good WR with their 2nd round pick. Maybe Hakeem Nicks makes it to them there. Or Kenny Britt or Brian Robiskie.

    And this draft should have some interesting WR's available even later on. Iglesias might be there in the 3rd. Mike Thomas, Brandon Tate, Jarett Dillard, Mike Wallace, Quan Cosby and Deon Butler are all very interesting prospects that the Rams could grab from the 3rd round on down.

    There are numerous options I'd be happy with. I'd be happy with any of these first 3 rounds:

    1. Crabtree
    2. Britton
    3. Iglesias

    1. Curry
    2. Nicks
    3. Wadkins

    1. Monroe
    2. Nicks
    3. Brinkly

  10. #10
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    I've been throwing alot of scenarios around in my mind for weeks now. The scenarios change constantly. First it was take an OT at #2. Then it was Crabtrees name that became hot and I thought yeah let's go with him instead. More recently Curry has been the name everyone has been throwing around. So I'm thinking yeah let's go with him at #2. Well, although alot of fans won't agree with me I've shut the blender off and come to a final conclusion. First and foremost we need to improve in the trenches. That means O-line and D-line. If there aren't any players worthy of a #2 pick in the draft that fit our needs than trade down. If we aren't controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball all the playmakers in the world won't make a difference. We've already improved our secondary and bolstered our running game by bringing in a "real" fullback. I call both areas the last line of the defense and offense respectfully. But again if the frontline (trenches) doesn't controll the opposition we will struggle. The other thing that has surfaced in my mind is the overwhelming amount of attention first Crabtree was getting and more recently Curry. Crabtree this and Crabtree that. Curry this and Curry that. These young men haven't played 1 single down in the NFL and they are the saviors? My opinion is that there will be hot prospects again next season. At this point in our rebuilding process they are not our most important needs. Therefore they're not part of the plan.

    Now Spags may feel a Barron at LT and Bell at RT experiment is a can't miss. If so, then I'm way off base as far as the O-line need goes. But what have we done to bolster our D-line? We need a monster in the middle of our D-line.

    So if anything I'll be hoping our 1st pick in the draft is a NT. Same theory applies though. If there doesn't happen to be a NT worthy of the #2 pick in the draft than trade down.

  11. #11
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    I think the whole debate about WR or OT is kind of a chicken and egg scenario. If you don't have the recevers to throw to, how are you going to stretch the field? On the other hand, if your QB is flat on his back, it doesn't really matter who you've got at WR.

    At this point in time, I'm leaning heavily toward fixing the line. It accomplishes a couple of big things. First, you protect the QB, and give him an opportunity to get the ball downfield. Second, we've got a fairly decent RB we need to block for.
    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    Crabtree is definately in the conversation, people thought he left with all his injuries. Depending on the faith we have in Barron he is probably 1 or 2 on our board. I just don't see it happening. I would think Spags would want the poster child of the new era to be a dominant lineman or dominant defensive player. On the other hand Spags understands the importance of a dominant WR opening up things for the rest of the offense. He saw the Giants Sputter when Buress went down. Avery's speed is always a threat to open things up, but at some point you have to wonder if that is ennough

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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    offence wins you matches, defence wins you championships....well apart from the 99 rams of course lol.

    its been way too long since we had anything of a defence and its about time we started causing havoc to opponents offence, turnovers, big hits, stopping the run, stopping the pass, i want to see that badly, so drafting curry is my #1, crabtree is a very good player and if he turns out to be a beast then maybe we missed out but we seriously need to sort this D out.

  14. #14
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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsinfiniti View Post
    i'm not concerned about avery or burton, as i think both will develop nicely. What i am concerned about is what lies behind them, and what would happen if one of them were to get injured ...
    i think you could say that about every position on our team. " what lies behind them " " what if they get injured". What if, what if, what if. What you do is find quality guys in the mid to late rounds. Like the saints have done. Having quality evaluaters in the f.o. Is where it starts, not drafting a 1st round wr. Especially when you have as many holes as we do, imo all other holes trump wr because they are more important like ol how will the wr's ever get the ball with our ol the way it is? Were no longer the gsot, were not gonna put up 40 points a game. Defense wins championships and we need to build it. Wr's are dime a dozen, solid defensive players are hard to find especially in our case.

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    Re: Wideout as pressing a need as any for Rams ...

    Change like losing Pace & Holt plus this whole regime thing is going to be painful & scary as well as exciting. I'm sure we are going to need some luck for the payoff to come next season.

    And yes, I'd rather have a high quality rookie to work in at a key position like OT than take a gamble on a WR who would be a bit of insurance we just can't afford,imo,to protect against injury to the 2nd yr guys and TEs. I think a better vet than Looker can & should be found.I agree that Stanley is on the bubble.

    I think that if we trust DeSpags to make the right choices, that has to include the lower rounds. Plenty of examples of productive WRs like Colston, Brandon Marshall, Hixon, & Avant who were 4th rd or later picks. Will they fill Holt's shoes individually? Not likely but that doesn't mean the team can't be competitive with them collectively.

    Like others before me, I'd rather see MB throwing a steady stream of 10 yd lasers to Looker or whomever than running for his life if Barron gets hurts or even with a less accomplished than top-2-rds OT, trying to buy enough time for Crabtree to get open for the bomb that MB can't throw that well anyway.

    Just about playing to strengths that will,in itself, minimize weaknesses, not an indictment of Marc or dismissal of Crabtree's obvious potential.

    Of course, I see the flipside of that as leaving the door cracked for Crabtree or Maclin or even some of the 2nd round guys being touted as options because DeSpags may solve the other needs like OT, et al, later as well.It just seems less likely.

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