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  1. #1
    RamsSB99's Avatar
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    Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Linehan?

    The previous HC went 3 out of 4 years in a row without a winning record and handed a 6-10 team over to Linehan.
    In his first year he improved the team to 8-8. But thats not enough.
    He was responsible for hiring Haslett.
    Bulger and Jackson have had career years under Linehan.
    We had our worse OL ever.
    We had the most injuries of any Ram team ever.
    The Rams finish 3-13 with 98 games missed by starters. But that still is not good.

    What gives will we have to wait for this coach to go 3 out of 4 seasons without a winning record?




    What will it take to get Linehan fired


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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    The previous HC went 3 out of 4 years in a row without a winning record and handed a 6-10 team over to Linehan.
    In his first year he improved the team to 8-8. But thats not enough.
    He was responsible for hiring Haslett.
    Bulger and Jackson have had career years under Linehan.
    We had our worse OL ever.
    We had the most injuries of any Ram team ever.
    The Rams finish 3-13 with 98 games missed by starters. But that still is not good.

    What gives will we have to wait for this coach to go 3 out of 4 seasons without a winning record?




    What will it take to get Linehan fired

    One more losing season. Martz earned some patience from the Rams ownership by taking the team to this wonderful thing called "the playoffs" and actually won a couple games there....taking the team to an even more wonderful thing called the "Super Bowl". Right now, based on Linehan's coaching performance, the closest he's getting to those things is by buying tickets to the games.

    Bulger and Jackson having career years is a bit of a misleading fact, because neither of them got hurt in 2006. For both Bulger and Jackson, that's the only year this has happened. Additionally, Jackson got about 150 more touches, partially because of Linehan, partially because that was the first year he wasn't splitting time with Faulk.

    I'll point out for Bulger that his 2006 QB rating was only his 4th best in his career. He threw 50 more passes in 2006, which probably explains the higher yardage-but his completion percentage went down.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    One more losing season. Martz earned some patience from the Rams ownership by taking the team to this wonderful thing called "the playoffs" and actually won a couple games there....taking the team to an even more wonderful thing called the "Super Bowl". Right now, based on Linehan's coaching performance, the closest he's getting to those things is by buying tickets to the games.

    Bulger and Jackson having career years is a bit of a misleading fact, because neither of them got hurt in 2006. For both Bulger and Jackson, that's the only year this has happened. Additionally, Jackson got about 150 more touches, partially because of Linehan, partially because that was the first year he wasn't splitting time with Faulk.

    I'll point out for Bulger that his 2006 QB rating was only his 4th best in his career. He threw 50 more passes in 2006, which probably explains the higher yardage-but his completion percentage went down.
    I've seen the arguments here about Bulger having his best season in 2006 and the fact that people DISAGREE with this is just evidence that most fans will not give Linehan credit for anything ...

    You point out that his rating was only the 4th best of his career and that he had a higher yardage total because he threw 50 more passes ...

    Are you for real?

    This guy had a CAREER HIGH in TD passes, one of the lowest INT% for a season ever, all of this while learning a new system in 2006 ...

    You mention the rating was his fourth best, but it was within 1.5 points of two other seasons ...

    Bulger has never played as well as he did in parts of 2006. Remember, he got off to a rough start while adapting to the system. If not for that, his numbers would have been even better ...

    As for Jackson, anyone who would argue that wasn't his best season is smoking crack ...

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    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    I'm not disputing that it was their best in regards to certain statistics...but as I pointed out for Jackson, that was the only year he 1) didn't get hurt, 2) didn't split time at RB. I'd hope he would have a career year under those circumstances.

    As for Bulger...looking at his stats during some of the Martz years where he didn't play a completely full season....he would have stood a good chance of matching the 2006 totals if he played the full 16 games.

    I've seen it argued that Bulger's late season success in 2006 might have been related to Linny pulling some pages from Martz's old playbook.

    EDIT-technically I am agreeing with the original poster in his question. I agree that he's going to get a 3rd season without a winning record to get fired (8-8 is not a winning season). I doubt that Linehan is capable of ever coaching this team to a winning record as of right now though. Since it sounds like the team is writing off next year anyway, though, there is little point to hiring another coach.
    Last edited by PeoriaRam; -01-15-2008 at 03:33 AM. Reason: Clarification and thought.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    He'll have one more year, and if we don't see dramatic improvement over this season he'll be gone.

    What we shouldn't do is qualify the statistical success of 2006-7 in the light of the disaster that was 2007-8. I've seen several reason offered in terms of why 2006-7 was a mirage that Linehan deserves little credit for, and most of them look to be as conjectural as some of the things we've seen him accused of this season. The fact remains that Linehan was a highly regarded assistant before his appointment and will be so on his departure, independent of any Martzian terminology he may have borrowed to ease the transition of coaching staffs.

    Maybe the NFL knows something we don't? What an appalling thought for some of us .

    It comes down basically to posters denying Linehan any credit. The circumstances of this season have made many wantonly raise the asterisk over his entire career, or at least the last five years of it. Frankly it just doesn't wash, and seems from my little corner of Rams Nation to be ignorant of a wealth of evidence to the contrary.

    If he fails to post a winning season in his third attempt, he will be fired. This won't speak of a fraud or a failure, but it might speak of a good assitant raised a little early and a man overwhelmed by unprecedented circumstances. That's not an apology for him, its just the way it is.

    I think he'll realise that more than anyone.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    This won't speak of a fraud or a failure, but it might speak of a good assitant raised a little early and a man overwhelmed by unprecedented circumstances.
    2008 will be a waste, and Linehan will be gone. I've made my peace with it.

    However, what concerns me is the men who put this prematurely raised assistant in the position he's in will still be calling the shots.

    As I've said over and over again, Linehan's luck is horrible. A wave of bad circumstances has washed upon him this year. And as long as he still has the lockerroom, give him this year. But if he has lost the lockerroom (and there is a fair amount of evidence to that argument), then keeping him sends the wrong message. I'm not one for letting the inmates run the asylum, but desparate times....
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh
    Now as to the original question.....

    No, I don't think it will take 3 of 4 seasons w/o a winning record to fire Linehan. I'm pretty certain that a year from now 3 of 3 seasons w/o a winning record should get the job done.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    He has to make the playoffs next year. Period. End of story. No playoffs, no job.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Yes. It will take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh. Linehan rules. Martz is evil.
    "I'm not going to hide my opinions. They're coming to you between 7000-4000 Angstroms for all the world to see. Oh yes, you will be enlightened."

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    I've seen the arguments here about Bulger having his best season in 2006 and the fact that people DISAGREE with this is just evidence that most fans will not give Linehan credit for anything ...
    Marc had his best number ever because we where so bad on defense, not because Linehan had them rolling. Wins and losses should be taken into account.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Marc had his best number ever because we where so bad on defense, not because Linehan had them rolling. Wins and losses should be taken into account.
    To be honest Rambos, that just proves the OP's point.

    Presumably, if you're shipping points by the bucketload, the QB has to press and if he does that then ordinarily he throws an equally large amount of picks. That didn't happen.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    At some point, maybe SB99 will actually get to his point...

    As for your question, Martz started with 3/4 winning seasons, and one of his 8-8 years resulted in a playoff birth and a WC round win. His final season shouldn't even be considered, as he was on a LOA for most of it.

    So, if you want to compare apples to apples, how about considering them apples?

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    At some point, maybe SB99 will actually get to his point...

    As for your question, Martz started with 3/4 winning seasons, and one of his 8-8 years resulted in a playoff birth and a WC round win. His final season shouldn't even be considered, as he was on a LOA for most of it.

    So, if you want to compare apples to apples, how about considering them apples?
    THE OLD HC:
    Inherited 2000:
    1. Who was our best OL back then? Pace
    2. Who was our top two receivers? Bruce & Holt
    3. Who was our running back? Soon to be Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk
    4. Who was our top DE's? Wistrom 11.0 Sacks(2000) Carter 10.5 Sacks(2000) Little had 5 Sacks(2000)

    In that HC's first year he took over a Superbowl thats worth repeating twice for some Superbowl team that was 13-3.

    He actually finished his first year at 10-6 he was three games worse then the year before.

    As for the 8-8 hip hip hooray the divison was sucky that year and we squeaked in it don't mean that it was any better then Linehans 8-8. It is still 8 wins and 8 losses.

    Do you remeber how the Atlanta playoff game went 47-17? We where blown out by Atlanta they set all types of records. Do you think the HC had anything to do with that.

    THE NEW HC
    Inherited 2006:
    1. Who was our best OL back now? Pace + 7 years when he is not on the DL which is rare. Which was signed in 2005 to a big contract started 16 games for the OLD HC and now can't stay on the field.
    2. Who was our top two receivers? Bruce + 7 years & Holt + 7 years
    3. Who was our running back? Jackson good but not as goog as Faulk in his prime yet.
    4. Who was our top DE's? Little + 7 years (can't stayon the field) and Hargrove (got rid of went AWOL)


    In the new HC's first year he took over a team that was 6-10 he improved the team to 8-8 thats a two win improvement. The old HC lost three more games in his first year. That year Jackson had his best year and Bulger had his best according to ESPN and several other media sources. Bulger played in all 16 games set at least 8 career bests some of which where Ram or league season records (see my other post). He had his most yards ever and lowest INT rate ever.

    In the new HC's second season he was hit with 89 injuries to starters. This is in a season of total disarray 18 line combination and the majority of their starting OL missing most of the season. Final record 3-13.

    I think the new HC would have a good shot at having 3 out of 4 winning seasons if he could inherit the 1999 team like the old HC did in 2000.
    With the:
    1. 13-3 record
    2. Marshall "The Hall of Famer" Faulk in his prime
    3. Kurt Warner at his best.
    4. Run stopping DE's with 26.5 sacks in his first year. Wistrom, Carter, Little
    5. 7 year younger Bruce, Holt, Pace, McColum, Little, Willkins (all still on the roster)
    6. Az Hakim punt returner/WR
    7. Horne kick returner
    8. Proehl (make every catch) in his prime
    9. What an OL Pace, Nutten, McCollum, Timmerman, Ryan Tucker
    10. James Hodgins at FB
    11. The list goes on and on it was a great team given to the previous HC. I can not think of a better team to be given except maybe the Patriots 07.

    Heck I think I can caoch that team to a 3-4 winning seasons. I might not have even let it discinigrate into 3-4 non winning seasons. Previous HC had a total of 3-6 winning seasons as HC.
    Last edited by RamsSB99; -01-16-2008 at 02:50 AM.

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsSB99 View Post
    THE OLD HC:
    Inherited 2000:
    1. Who was our best OL back then? Pace
    2. Who was our top two receivers? Bruce & Holt
    3. Who was our running back? Soon to be Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk
    4. Who was our top DE's? Wistrom 11.0 Sacks(2000) Carter 10.5 Sacks(2000) Little had 5 Sacks(2000)

    In that HC's first year he took over a Superbowl thats worth repeating twice for some Superbowl team that was 13-3.

    He actually finished his first year at 10-6 he was three games worse then the year before.
    Such things happen in the NFL. 2001 Ravens saw a drop, 2002 Patriots missed the playoffs, 2003 Buccaneers dropped 5 games, 2005 Patriots dropped 4 games, 2006 Steelers dropped 3 games in record and missed the playoffs. It's the result of a harder schedule and cliche it may be...getting everyone's best shot.

    As for the 8-8 hip hip hooray the divison was sucky that year and we squeaked in it don't mean that it was any better then Linehans 8-8. It is still 8 wins and 8 losses.
    Regardless of how they may have looked against the Rams....in case you didn't notice, the division was arguably worse this year.

    Do you remeber how the Atlanta playoff game went 47-17? We where blown out by Atlanta they set all types of records. Do you think the HC had anything to do with that.
    Yes he did by hiring Larry "Club Marmalade" Marmie as the Rams DC. In the course of his tenure, we saw NFL professionals forget how to do basic things such as tackle. That said...the team was 8-8, 3-7 outside of the division, and got run over by an Atlanta team that was quite simply, better than the Rams. However...the week before, he did beat Seattle....in the home of the "12th man" for the second time that season. In fact...he swept Seattle that year. Can Linehan claim to have ever beaten Seattle-and he's had the opportunity to do it...

    THE NEW HC
    Inherited 2006:
    1. Who was our best OL back now? Pace + 7 years when he is not on the DL which is rare. Which was signed in 2005 to a big contract started 16 games for the OLD HC and now can't stay on the field.
    2. Who was our top two receivers? Bruce + 7 years & Holt + 7 years
    3. Who was our running back? Jackson good but not as goog as Faulk in his prime yet.
    4. Who was our top DE's? Little + 7 years (can't stayon the field) and Hargrove (got rid of went AWOL)
    1. Maybe something's wrong with the new coach's conditioning regime?
    2. Holt+7 years is a mature receiver who is still one of the best in the league. Bruce+7 years is in the twilight of his career, but "no worries" he has an excellent replacement in Kevin Cur...what do you mean you let him go as a free agent to Philly last offseason?!
    3. To be expected...it's only his 3rd year. Much like Holt in Martz's first year as HC was only in his 2nd season.
    4. This is partially Martz's doing, but really the FO deserves a lot of the blame here-they are the ones who kept letting D-Linemen leave in free agency.


    In the new HC's first year he took over a team that was 6-10 he improved the team to 8-8 thats a two win improvement. The old HC lost three more games in his first year. That year Jackson had his best year and Bulger had his best according to ESPN and several other media sources. He played in all 16 games set at least 7 either career bests some of which where Ram or league season records (see my other post). He had his most yards ever and lowest INT rate ever.
    The 05 Rams team is better on paper than their 6-10 record indicates. They were essentially toast when Bulger went down at Indy, and Marmie's defense-combined with instability and infighting-brought about that performance.

    Linny inherited a team with a playoff caliber offense (his domain) and a massive rebuilding project on defense (Haslett's domain). Yes Bulger and Jackson had career years in some ways (OK Jackson had a career year-Bulger did in some ways) but they were also healthy. However...while Linny did some good things with the offense that year, they were also SHUT OUT by Carolina-something that last happened when Tony Banks was taking snaps, and when the chips were down, blew very good chances to beat Seattle twice. I know Martz did crazy things, but I doubt he would have blown both games given the opportunities Linehan had.

    In the new HC's second season he was hit with 89 injuries to starters. This is in a season of total disarray 18 line combination and the majority of their starting OL missing most of the season. Final record 3-13.

    I think the new HC would have a good shot at having 3 out of 4 winning seasons if he could inherit the 1999 team like the old HC did in 2000.
    With the:
    1. 13-3 record
    2. Marshall "The Hall of Famer" Faulk in his prime
    3. Kurt Warner at his best.
    4. Run stopping DE's with 26.5 sacks in his first year. Wistrom, Carter, Little
    5. 7 year younger Bruce, Holt, Pace, McColum, Little, Willkins (all still on the roster)
    6. Az Hakim punt returner/WR
    7. Horne kick returner
    8. Proehl (make every catch) in his prime
    9. What an OL Pace, Nutten, McCollum, Timmerman, Ryan Tucker
    10. James Hodgins at FB
    11. The list goes on and on it was a great team given to the previous HC. I can not think of a better team to be given except maybe the Patriots 07.

    Heck I think I can caoch that team to a 3-4 winning seasons. I might not have even let it discinigrate into 3-4 non winning seasons. Previous HC had a total of 3-6 winning seasons as HC.
    Three things...

    1) With that talent, he better not have an "I coach, you play" attitude

    2) From what I have seen out of Linehan's playcalling, I just don't think he can make the correct calls, or have the correct personnel in, in clutch situations when the chips are down. Linehan's "no unnecessary risks" approach to playcalling just cannot get it done. Martz might not always do it either....but he also did make the correct calls when the chips are down. If the Rams, even with that talent, are down by 2 TDs or more late with Linny's playcalling....they are toast. With Martz...they still have a chance.

    3) If the FO stays the same, that talent is going, going, gone after 2 years.

    EDIT-the Rams under Linehan have only come back from a deficit of greater than 7 points ONCE-hosting Washington last year they came back from being down 14 in the middle of the 3rd.
    Last edited by PeoriaRam; -01-16-2008 at 03:14 AM. Reason: Comeback check stats...

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    Re: Will it take 3of4 seasons w/o a winning record like the previous HC to fire Lineh

    My gawd....inherited again?

    I propose that we ban the term inherited on this website for eternity because it seems that most posters have no idea what that term means. I'm not posting my "inherited" thread again until March because I just posted it in December. It's been turned into a 3 month post because I'm tired of explaining why it's wrong over and over and over and over and over again and still people get the "inherited" part of Martz's regime wrong.


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