No doubt the NFL had this, along with much more, but doubters wanted proof positive that this actually happened. Well here it is and it slams home the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck
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No doubt the NFL had this, along with much more, but doubters wanted proof positive that this actually happened. Well here it is and it slams home the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck
I'd be surprised if Goodell hadn't already heard this given the fact he dished out an indefinite suspension.
Nothing new either, I'd be surprised if Williams had been able to talk about a bounty program without talking in the manner he does here.
He's been given his suspension and his road to redemption has been laid out by the commisioner, its just a little harder to travel now than it may have been before the tape was made public.
I don't see what the big deal is. He's not talking about hurting other men; he's talking about hurting the whiners. They're not men.
For that matter, I can see being mad at Vick; he killed dogs. Williams is talking about killing whiners. Dogs are much more valuable than whiners.
Lord, I apologize for that right there, be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea, amen.
Exactly. Before we get too carried away, does anyone really think Greg's speech was all that different from many other DCs pre-game speech? I'd love to hear a tape of each NFL team's DC pre-game speech. Can anyone imagine Buddy Ryan's or Mike Ditka's? If you take the money issue away, what is so different from the defensive mindset all teams try and establish. What about WOO hits? Don't we love to see those from our own defense? I do .. Football is a macho, violent game by design. Sure Goodell's job is to put a positive spin on things for PR, but the game will always be violent and dangerous unless the NFL changes to flag football rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck
What about boxing - it's legal right? Not room for much hypocrisy there, as by design, the objective for victory is for one man to beat his opponent senseless. No gray areas there .. Compared with boxing, I'd bet the odds of sustaining serious injury are far greater for football players than boxers over the course of their careers. Point being that the product the NFL fields each Sunday is predicated on violence and folks love watching it.
Loomis, Payton, Williams and Vitt got caught transgressing established rules. Then they really screwed up by ignoring the directive from Goodell to cease. Can't blame Goodell for being pissed either. No CEO likes to be ignored by his underlings. Climbing up on a moral high horse over this however is hypocrisy, for Goodell, and fans alike.
If the league and owners care so much about player safety, why are they lobbying so hard for an 18 game regular season? Could it be that Roger and the NFL owners value the almighty dollar more far than player safety? Williams got busted and is going to pay .. Until I get to hear tapes of 31 other DCs speeches imploring their players to "go to war" for them, I'll leave moral judgment out of it.
Will this become too big of a distraction for the Rams? Should they cut ties with Williams? That's a fair question. I don't have the answer, but Fisher/Snead and Stan will ..
And this is why I get annoyed with the media. This story is old news. Williams won't be coaching anytime soon. Punishments have been levied. We've moved past this. And yet the media STILL feels the need to add fuel to the fire by releasing a tape that I have no doubt in my mind was already heard by the commissioner ten times over. Williams already admitted to being directly involved in a "bounty" program and giving tacit approval for such. This tape is the equivalent of beating an ant with a sledgehammer- it's needless.
Opening day of baseball, opening day of The Masters and THIS is what is newsworthy today? Come on.
The timing matters. This was from the last game he coached. It was after all the league warnings and after all the saint's denials.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1
Also, the appeals are being heard today and this tape was leaked today. There's an allegation that the Saint's knew about the tape but counted on the filmmaker to keep it secret. So much for being forthcoming with the league. This all makes it news.
Considering how the Saints defense did that day, it wasn't a good speech by your standard either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vis
All during the roll-out of this issue, people said tageting opposing players for injury and paying a bounty for it would be crossing a line and unacceptable. But before making a judgement, they said "let's see proof", "let the investigation run it's course", "let's see if Williams really did incite his players to purposely injure opponents before we call for the Rams to cut him loose". And now we're presented with tangible evidence in stark detail that we never had before. Before this audio, it was all about "reported" evidence that was unsubstantiated and left to the imagination. That's why this tape has relevence.
Again I would ask, do those who stated pay for injury was unacceptable, still feel that way? Does unacceptable mean the Rams should get rid of Williams? I'm getting the sense that many are backing off that way of thinking.
I can't possibly be the only one who absolutely LOVES this, can I? This is so motivational... I WISH he was here this year. Just hearing that gives me goosebumps. No defense could play soft with a MF'in speech like that! :D
Its a shame that hes gonna be gone for a while! I'm lobbying for him to stay.
I'll answer you, Mike. The question has never been, "is pay for injury unacceptable?" We've all agreed on that since day 1.Quote:
Again I would ask, do those who stated pay for injury was unacceptable, still feel that way?
Rather, the question is, "did Williams support a pay for injury system?" That's the question.
Now, while I think a lot of the "head" talk in that audio is simply bravado, it's hard to doubt what he means when he speaks of Crabtree's ACL, and "that little #10's" concussion. It's very damning audio, no question; and may well be the death nail in Williams professional coffin.
I'm still there. I still think the guy should be fired. I said this was ugly and it's only getting uglier.Quote:
Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
The really sad thing is that this audio tape exposes an ugly underlying culture in the NFL. This was not a first time type of speach. It's something that indicates it's a generally acceptable form of motivational communication. The only thing professional about it is that they are being paid money.
So acknowledging that he told his players to go after knees and ankles at the very least, do you think the Rams should keep Williams?Quote:
Originally Posted by HUbison
Another part of the tape that stuck out for me was Williams telling his players not to have any doubts about what they were doing, in the midst of all the "kill the head" in the pile after the play, and target an ACL stuff. It reeked of "don't feel guilty about trying to injure opponents" IMO.
As far as the death nail in Williams professional coffin, you may be right. You can bet the NFL didn't want it to come out, because now thier hand may be forced by public outrage.
As much as I believe a lot of what was said was for “effect”, I think that his position has become untenable. It’s a great shame because I was looking forward to what he was going to bring to the table for our defence.
I don’t think it will be long before he does the right thing by his friend and resigns his position.
Make sure you are all talking about the correct thing here. Williams was suspended for allegedly running a bounty program. NOT for telling his players to attempt to injure players. That is a completely different thing.
Where is the evidence that Williams offered money for Saints players to injure the opposition?
This audio provides nothing to prove either way about Williams involvement in the bounty scandal. It might show that Williams has nasty tactics, but that's not what he was suspended for
You can argue the morality behind telling your defense to go out and attempt to injure the opposition, but I would be very surprised if other defensive coordinators don't do the same thing. It's a lot easier to play against Curtis Painter than it is Peyton Manning.