That is right. I'm a convert. I gave Williams the benefit of the doubt, but that benefit is now removed along with the doubt.Quote:
So acknowledging that he told his players to go after knees and ankles at the very least, do you think the Rams should keep Williams?
Williams admiited fault and disputed nothing the NFL accused him of.Quote:
The NFL's report said the Saints maintained a bounty pool of up to $50,000 the last three seasons. Payoffs were made for inflicting game-ending injuries on targeted players, including quarterbacks Brett Favre and Kurt Warner. "Knockouts," in which a player was knocked out of the game, were worth $1,500 and "cart-offs," in which players had to be helped off the field, were worth $1,000. Payments doubled or tripled for the playoffs.
You can take the first paragraph of a Peter King expose on the Saints bounty program any way you like:
On Saturday nights during the 2009 NFL season, Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, the lightning-rod leader of a feisty unit, would stand in front of his men holding white envelopes filled with cash—bonuses for their performances the previous week. As Williams called up player after player, handing them envelopes with amounts ranging from $100 for a special teams tackle inside the opponents' 20-yard line to $1,500 for knocking a foe out of the game, a chant would rise up from the fired-up defenders:
"Give it back! Give it back! Give it back!"
Those of us who have tried to resist being carried along with the media tidal wave rather than merely accept everything that's been released and taking it at face value have never doubted that paying players to injure other players was wrong.
There are however aspects to this episode that concern me and concern me still.
I still can't get my head around the fact that in all of his Williams time in the league and all of the players that have crossed his path, its taken until now for all this to come out. In addition, there are still players who played for Williams who have gone on record as saying that there was nothing remarkable in what he asked players to do relative to other places they've been in the league.
Fletcher and Porter being but two.
That's very different to saying that pay for injury is acceptable.
I'm not asking for much here. All I want to see is some proof. If you have suspended a man indefinitely from the NFL, then you need to have some proof to back it up. While this audio seems like it's proof, it's not proof of the bounty scandal at all
It's like the Catholic Church trying to pontificate on moralities all the while transferring abusive priests. You can't have it both ways. The cancer needs eradicated - regardless how damaging, how pervasive. The NFL shouldn't put the Rams' Organization in the position of a Diociose deciding on whether appropriate contrition has been displayed by one of Satan's little spawns and should minister to more unsuspecting children. Gooddell needs to cleave this menace once and for all and remove the shadow of this crap from hanging over the Rams.
Everything about the Rams suggest they are moving on. They don't need to carry the baggage of someone else's past. They don't need to be scrutiinzed in later years to see whether public apologies are backed by deeds. They don't need their defense evaluated in terms of the past.
It's Good Friday. This is not the time to fantasize excuses about why someone's future should be resurrected at the altar of the Rams. A few Hail Marys and a couple of Our Fathers isn't enough. String him up now and go find those priests while you're at it. If it was a capital crime to embezzle from the Treasury, this is just as repugnant bad behavior that ought to be subjected to similar severity ...
Page Two ...
After listening to Mike and Mike, then part of the Herd, both shows say that this is normal "NFL" talk. Everything that Williams said, everything beside the ACL comment, is said in 31 other locker rooms. Mike Golic said that this was very normal (beside the ACL) but then he said that this is the ugly side that no one needs to see and that it was bad to say "Concusion" in this day and age. Colin Cowherd said the same thing and that people need to realise this is the NFL and we need to get over it. I don't know if anyone listen to ESPN and heard this stuff but I thought it was interesting.
Then again, Warren Sapp and Micheal Irvin said the opposites so you never know.
Yes, adarian; may....well....be.Quote:
Originally Posted by adarian
We mere mortals don't have use of your chemically activated crystal ball; therefore I can not say with absolute certainity that Williams will never work as a football coach again. But that would be guess.
I don't know what else there is to say. If you need a laundry list of things to prove what Williams has already accepted and admitted to, you're probably going to be left unfullfillled, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.
Yesterday National Public Radio interviewed Rich Miano and the topic of the audio tape of Williams came up. This is the excerpt:
SIEGEL: You know, Rich Miano, the talk of pro football fans today is the audio of then New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams giving a locker room speech before the Saints' January playoff loss to San Francisco. Here is a little taste of what actually goes on for several minutes. Gregg Williams' favorite word here is bleeped out in deference to the FCC.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED AUDIO)
GREGG WILLIAMS: We need to decide on how many times we can beat Frank Gore's head. We need to decide how many times we can bull rush, and we can (bleep) put Vernon Davis' ankles over the pile. And when they are fearing us, they give us the ball.
SIEGEL: At one point, the filmmaker who released this recording said Williams was actually rubbing his fingers to suggest cash, as he talked about who would hit the ***** quarterback, Alex Smith. There's been a lot of tongue clucking over this speech today. How unusual is that? How unusual is it - a talk like that from a defensive coach?
MIANO: I think it's very prevalent, and I think that the suspension to Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis and, obviously, Gregg Williams has been very, very severe. Nobody wants to hurt one another. I think there is - when you enter the National Football League, you realize your livelihood is based upon your ability to continue to play and earn as much revenue as possible. So therefore I don't think anyone wants to end somebody's career. But, yes, you do, as an opponent, want to take somebody out of the football game. If that's going to, obviously, affect your ability to win or lose that football game so...
SIEGEL: So when you say that the penalties against the New Orleans Saints' general manger and coach and defensive coordinator were very severe, are you saying that because the idea that you should go out there and try to take the guy out of the game is common? It's something that you would expect to hear from a defensive coach.
MIANO: Yeah. And I started playing in 1985 and played all the way to 1996. And there were bounties throughout the league. It was part of the game for so long. There's some legacy of coaches that obviously have been in this league for decades. And even the young coaches have come up learning this type of bounties and incentives and what motivates players. Even though players are making millions of dollars, it's amazing what is extra cash will do in terms of an incentive to hit somebody as hard as you can and possibly take them out of the football game.
SIEGEL: Well, Rich Miano, thank you very much for talking with us about it today.
MIANO: Aloha. And have a great day.
Richard James Miano (born September 3, 1962) is a former American football defensive back who played 11 seasons for three teams in the National Football League. Rich was a walk-on for University of Hawaii team in 1981 and became an all WAC defensive back in 1983 and 1984. In 1985 Rich was drafted in the 6th round by the New York Jets with whom he played six seasons. After missing the entire 1990 season with a knee injury, Miano went to the Philadelphia Eagles where he played four seasons. In 1995, his final season in the NFL, he played for the Atlanta Falcons. Upon retirement from the NFL, Miano moved back to his home in Honolulu, Hawaii where he is currently the Associate Head Coach with the University of Hawaii, where he played his college career.
The NFL can paint Payton,Williams and Vitt as maverick villains, but from everything I have read and heard recently, this has been going on for years and years throughout the league. Now that the NFL's dirty laundry has been aired publicly, Goodell has to quickly implement all the damage control he can by making an example of the Saints, (namely Payton, Vitt, and Williams in particular. If the NFL is so concerned about "protecting players," why not conduct a league wide investigation? I doubt that will ever happen - talk about a "black eye" - It's safer to pretend this is just an aberration by a few, and the rest of the teams conduct their programs within honorable guidelines.
Beat the living snot out of the guys who got caught and hope it will scare the rest of the DCs out there to tread the straight and narrow. Maybe it will work ... I am not defending the "bounty system," just pointing out that it has permeated the league in various forms for many years. It is hard for me to believe league officials, team owners, let alone coaches and players just discovered this "despicable" practice existed, and are genuinely outraged.
Maybe the best solution would be for Goodell to demand that closed circuit cameras and audio recording equipment be installed in every team's meeting rooms to ensure that there be no infractions .. But - no matter what - bring on 18 game regular seasons !!!