would you trade a #5 for pacman jones

[general counsel]

would you give up a 5th round pick for the pacman? Lots of baggage for sure, also plenty of talent. How much downside is there at the cost of a 5th round pick. According to espn, a mid round pick will get him.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

[jkramsfan]

would you give up a 5th round pick for the pacman? Lots of baggage for sure, also plenty of talent. How much downside is there at the cost of a 5th round pick. According to espn, a mid round pick will get him.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

I say no, I really don't think he can stay out of trouble.

[txramsfan]

Absolutely, hands down no question I would. He is head and shoulders above anyone in our secondary right now. With him and Brown as the starting CB's, absolutely.

[ramsplaya16]

there is really no question in my mind. a fifth isnt a big loss at all, and jines has ALOT of talent

[BM_Face]

No way he is worth a 5th round pick. He bit a cop, and that alone shows he does not have the self-discipline to stay out of trouble.

[HUbison]

Absolutely, hands down no question I would. He is head and shoulders above anyone in our secondary right now. With him and Brown as the starting CB's, absolutely.

Wow, that's a lot of confidence for yet another lockerroom cancer.

I'd probably do a 5th rounder for Jones as a return man if nothing else. But how is Hill (5'10", 185) too small at corner, yet Jones (5'11", 187) is the answer?

[txramsfan]

Because Jones has more speed and better hands than Hill. Hill has hands like feet. He did in college and he does in the pros. Sometimes, talent makes up for size.

[HUbison]

Because Jones has more speed and better hands than Hill. Hill has hands like feet. He did in college and he does in the pros. Sometimes, talent makes up for size.

Jones (4.38) has more speed than Hill (4.30) ?!?!? Really?

As for the hands, if Jones are better, it's yet to show.......Jones 4 ints. in 30 games; Hill 4 ints. in 24 games.

[txramsfan]

c'mon HUb, everyone knows that stat is somewhat skewed. How many times did Hill get thrown to as opposed to Jones?

Look, this discussion is going to come down to this: do you believe in Hill or not. Right now, I don't. Most of you do, that's ok. I'm somewhat on the other side of the Rams fence most of the time anyway. I just don't think he's that good and we should have taken Cromartie. I said it then and I'll say it now.

[mde8352gorams]

I say no, I really don't think he can stay out of trouble.

I agree 100%, this guy is a "cancer" in the lockerroom and a "train wreck" on the outside. He's undisciplined and 1 problem away from permanent suspension from the league. Nooooooooo Waaaaaaaaay!

Go Rams!:r

[txramsfan]

where has everyone heard he was a cancer in the lockerroom? He may be an undisciplined overpaid athelete on the outside but inside the lockerroom of the Titans all indications seem to be on his side. Vince Young called him his boy and hopes he gets out of all this stuff he's in.

There is no indication of lockerroom trouble, just being in strip clubs at 3 AM which Jim Rome always says nothing good happens at a strip club at 3 AM. Keep him out of East St. Louis and he may be ok.

[HUbison]

c'mon HUb, everyone knows that stat is somewhat skewed. How many times did Hill get thrown to as opposed to Jones?

Look, this discussion is going to come down to this: do you believe in Hill or not. Right now, I don't. Most of you do, that's ok. I'm somewhat on the other side of the Rams fence most of the time anyway. I just don't think he's that good and we should have taken Cromartie. I said it then and I'll say it now.

I was just curious if your argument was of a quantitative or qualitative nature. You've made it clear it is qualitative which is fine with me. At that point, we will just have to disagree.

But quantitatively, if everyone knows that stat is somewhat skewed.......why the fuss over Cromartie and his 10 picks?

Was Jones thrown to less than Hill? I don't know. I'm sure that stat is out there somewhere, but I can't find it. So, I can't say that one was thrown at more than the other. Until that moment comes, all I know is that Hill has the same number of picks as Jones in 6 less games & 11 less starts. In fact, it would probably be a fair assumption that just the difference in games played would have more balls thrown at Jones than Hill pushing the "hands" argument more towards Hill.

As for the lockerroom, LenDale White and Vince Young have both spoken out for him. Great, but what good is that when he's suspended. And how does he spend his suspension time? Trying to lay low, or even better, trying to improve himself for the team's sake? Nope......wrestling and rapping.

Last month, he gets accused AGAIN of violence at a strip club. Two weeks ago, Goodell AGAIN expresses his disappointment with Jones, and makes thinnly veiled assertions that the NFL will be more than willing to give Jones more time on the beach to think about his decision making process.

It's hard to be a positive influence in the lockerroom, if the league won't even allow you in the lockerroom.

P.S. Having said all that, I'd still put out a 5th for him.

[AvengerRam]

Assuming (1) he's eligible to play this season (is he?), and (2) he'd play for a very small cap $ figure, then... yes, I'd take a chance.

[txramsfan]

I've always said this and sometimes I get interesting looks but I do believe in it: just because a kid from a tough background signs a huge contract doesn't automatically make him a model citizen. Most of the time, atheletes stay the way they were raised. That's why MOST atheletes should not be role models. I whole heartedly agree with Charles Barkley. Pacman didn't come from the best of surroundings so I wouldn't necessarily expect him to change. I would expect him to grow but sometimes we never do

[MauiRam]

would you give up a 5th round pick for the pacman? Lots of baggage for sure, also plenty of talent. How much downside is there at the cost of a 5th round pick. According to espn, a mid round pick will get him.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

GC .. are you just stirring the pot, or do you really want this guy? Why trade even a 7th rd pick for a huge distraction? The Rams were in disarray last year, and are trying to claw their way back to respectability. No way would I want this guy wearing horns. The guy is a certified jerk who can't stay out of trouble. We need solid character more than ever right now, not another "character."

What we really need IMHO is a bona fide pass rush, which in turn would do wonders for our entire secondary ..