You've read the debate, now vote: What do you thing of the offer to Bruce?

**AvengerRam** · #1 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Let The People Decide!

*majorram* · #2 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

From what I have read, seen on video, heard!!! the sticking point in a nutshell is he wants more money in the 'first year', thats it!! just my two cents...I like the 5/2/2 offer but I think the first year money will have to improve slightly

steve:clanram:

**laram0** · #3 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

I like the 5,2,2, offer. Does Ike have 3 years left in the tank ???

*Ferter* · #4 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

It's not only a good offer it is a fair offer.

Hardly "lowball" IMO.

*jkramsfan* · #5 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

i also read that the first year is the sticking point,so the rams need to raise it above 5 million but less than 8 million, i would think this could get done,it doesnt seem like we should lose him over that gap.

*Rambos* · #6 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Ok I play, great question AV.

I think Bruce is entitled to his FAIR MARKET VALUE; the only way to establish this is for him to explore the market. The market will determine weather the Rams offer is high or low. His market value might be higher the 5-2-2, no one will know until he test his value by receiving offers. I would think to retain I guy like Bruce you would need to be higher with the up front money, ensuring he does not test his value.

I don’t expect Bruce to take a hugh pay cut at this point in his career, yeah he was hurt last year and his number where down. But I would still think he would be productive in the second WR spot. Take into account his status as a Ram, I don’t see Green bay kicking Bret to the curb and he is well past his prime.

From the movies Rounder’s “pay that man his money”

Quote:

It's not only a good offer it is a fair offer.

Can you provide some data on this how this is a fair offer? Fair compared to what?

*Ferter* · #7 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Quote:

Can you provide some data on this how this is a fair offer? Fair compared to what?

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just offereing my opinion. I think there is another thread filled with posts from those who are trying to prove that the terminology, as to the offer, is correct.

So, I will assume you think it is unfair. Otherwise why would you ask me for data?

Can you provide some data as to how this is an unfair offer? Unfair compared to what?

**AvengerRam** · #8 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rambos

Fair compared to what?

As I mentioned in the other thread, under their current or offered contracts, here is how the Rams WRs would be paid this year:

Torry Holt: $3.8 million
Kevin Curtis: $1.5 million
Isaac Bruce: $5 million

*Rambos* · #9 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

I don’t know if it is or not fair, only the market can prove that.

Maybe the rams don’t want to pay fair market value. I don’t know what they are thinking. I guess what I’m trying to say is hard for anyone including myself to say weather this is fair.

Ferter I though you might have a couple of examples that I did not know about, maybe some contracts that where similar to Bruce situation that’s all.

*Ferter* · #10 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Quote:

Ferter I though you might have a couple of examples that I did not know about, maybe some contracts that where similar to Bruce situation that’s all.

It's all good Rambos!

Can't say as I have any different examples than what have been offered in the other thread.

*Rambos* · #11 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Torry Holt: $3.8 million This is like comparing your homes current value to a house the sold two years ago how would you feel about that? What year is Holt in now on this contract his 3rd 4th? This was not done last year was it?

Kevin Curtis: $1.5 million He is a RF, he will test the market and we will see what offers he gets. Do we know what he will get in 2006?

Isaac Bruce: $5 million

I’m still not sure what Market value is and if the Rams even care.

**AvengerRam** · #12 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Here are some 2006 salaries of prominent older WRs:

Jimmy Smith $3.5 million
Rod Smith $3.0 million
Hines Ward $2.75 million
Amani Toomer $2.4 million
Marvin Harrison $2.0 million

Harrison may be the best example. He's close to Bruce's age, and had a much better season than Bruce did last year, and he just took a significant pay cut to help the Colts get under the cap.

*Rambos* · #13 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Jimmy Smith $3.5 million
Rod Smith $3.0 million
Hines Ward $2.75 million
Amani Toomer $2.4 million
Marvin Harrison $2.0 million

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the real money in the singing bonus, the up front money. We all know that it’s all about the up front money and most NFL contracts are loaded heavy on the back end, because the players will never see it. Example DT La'Roi Glover is worth $12 million, including a signing bonus of $3.5 million.I don’t think you can just look at a given year to really pin point what the deal was worth per year.

Bruce 5-2-2 Hmmm.

2-2 in what can be an uncapped free for all.

**AvengerRam** · #14 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

Sure, you could add to any of those numbers an annual pro rata share of the signing bonus each player received.

But that's true for Bruce too.

In 2000, Bruce signed a 7 year deal and was paid an $11.5 million signing bonus. Thus, his 2006 (the final year of the contract) pro rata share of that bonus is approximately $1.64 million. Add that to the $5 million he's been offered for 2006 and his "actual" number would be $6.64 million.

I don't think any of the receivers listed received such a large signing bonus that, if you add their annual pro rata share of that bonus to their salary they would be in a range well above $6.64 million.

For example, when Hines Ward signed his recent 4 year extension, he received a $10 million signing bonus (his first really big payday). This amounts to an annual pro rata share of $2.5 million which, added to his salary, would give him an "actual"number of $5.25 million, which is still well below what Bruce has effectively been offered.

*Rambos* · #15 (**permalink**) -07-03-2006

This is real good data AV, But with the current CBA deal not resolved would you advise Bruce to sign, 2-2 on the back end with no cap in 2007. Or would you wait to see if a deal gets done? I believe if the deal gets done the Rams up the offer maybe on the backend. Knowing that Bruce is on the decline and will restructure as his numbers start to decline.

From the numbers you are providing it looks like a good offer maybe even top dollar offer. I’m not going to use the word FAIR as fair market would be what someone is willing to pay and until he test the market we won’t really know.

Does anyone know what Bruce is looking for, is he delusional. Are they even close to a potential deal as Linehan feels it’s going to get done? Maybe the offer is solid and when Bruce tests the market this is fair value, only time will tell. If I where Bruce’s agent I would tell him wait and see if the CBA deal gets done.