You've seen RamTime's evidence - what's your verdict?

[AvengerRam]

I do what I can.

[.ramfan.]

I don't know what my vote would be here. It's hard for me to believe there was any "official" conspiracy because those types of things usually involve so many people at different levels, it's difficult to keep a lid on them without someone coming clean. But the horrible way the game was officiated and the overwelming slant in the Patriots favor, makes the possibility hard to ignore. It was either some sort of conspiracy to (at the very least) keep the game close, or the worst officiated game in SPORTS history that just by chance favored one team over another at a time when America needed a "patriotic" shot in the arm.

Very nicely put r8.

[RamTime]

The problem I have with it just being a "horribly officiated" game is it does not make sense. If a superbowl game were that horribly officiated don't you think there would be repercussions just as there was in the Whiners / Giants playoff game? That was 1 mistake in a game on a play that had plenty of extenuating circumstances. In the case of Superbowl XXXVI the NFL not only failed to reprimand any of the officials they actually got another superbowl gig out of the deal. That is why I contend that the corruption starts with the people who hire these officials to begin with. The people writing the pay checks for these officials have no problem with the way that game was called and since any other time there would have been a flurry of penalties obviously the officials did exactly what was asked of them. Sorry if corruption makes more sense then the conventional “missed some calls” but I am simply a watch dog for the truth.

[RamTime]

I don't know what my vote would be here. It's hard for me to believe there was any "official" conspiracy because those types of things usually involve so many people at different levels, it's difficult to keep a lid on them without someone coming clean. But the horrible way the game was officiated and the overwelming slant in the Patriots favor, makes the possibility hard to ignore. It was either some sort of conspiracy to (at the very least) keep the game close, or the worst officiated game in SPORTS history that just by chance favored one team over another at a time when America needed a "patriotic" shot in the arm.

It's interesting to note that an NFL player gave his life in Iraq and the administration had no problem spinning his death into something it was not for the purpose of buoying patriotism in America.

[theodus69]

The officiating was horrible ,but the Rams didn't play all that great that day! If the Rams would have played at the top of their game, The officiating would not have been a factor! but those ref's were the worst I've ever seen! So RT's claim does hold some water! But I still feel they didn't take it to the Pattsies like they should have, Therefor, the ref's were the difference! :drunk: happy 4th to all.

[RamTime]

I have been screaming conspiracy against the RAMS since tags couldn't block the move to St. Louis; so it's no doubt how I see it.

I know there isn't good game tape of it, but I saw it live, so I know what happened. Take a look at the game where the RAMS finally got that monkey off their backs. On the first kick return by the RAMS, a whiner player pushes a RAM into the path of the ball when the returner is waving everyone away. It was a BLATANT block in the back. Then the loose ball is rolling across the field, with everyone trying to secure it. There is a HUGE pile-up, and the officials are digging through the pile to see who has it. After a bit, the officials shrug and start to award the ball to the whiners. The only problem was Troy Pelsheck standing there trying to show them he has the ball. Funny how fox managed to get a camera angle that showed the officials starting to point in the whiners favor without including Troy, when he was standing right there. Maas even made some comment about how could it be the RAMS ball when the officials started to point in the whiners direction.

gap

Your memory of that game is consistent with my own. As you said, officials were not sure who was in possession of the ball. In those days, which also happened to be the end of Debartolo days, any time something was in doubt the officials always gave it to their beloved 9ers. It is interesting that you should bring up that game because before that game, 9er defensive backs along with their DC were talking about how they were going to rough up Rams receivers specifically Isaac Bruce. Bruce had 4 touchdown catches on the day and Warner threw for 5 scores. This illustrates my point that the Patriot talked the same trash that the Rams heard over and over again. Patriot defenders don't and never did have the copyright on that statement as the media would like us to believe. It dates back to 1999 and plenty of defenses have spewed the same fantasy. The difference with the Patriots is they were so scared of our receivers that it forced them into a prevent defense from the start of the game where they had the luxury of laying back and timing the hits against our receivers which is not the stuff of tough its actually the stuff of fluff because they were in fear of our high powered offense. Add to that, officials set not one boundary as far as cheap and illegal tactics.

[RamTime]

More on that game gap was refering to.

The Rams ended their 17 game losing streak against their “classy” division rival / felonious / Cap cheating San Francisco 9ers in a convincing 42-20 thrashing. Tim McDonald and coach Jim Mora bragged about how they were going to rough up the Rams receivers physically. The Rams responded by throwing Isaac Bruce not one, not two, not three, but four touchdown passes on the day.
As the final minute was ticking off the clock Rams fans everywhere were screaming for more as the Rams had the ball inside the 49er 2 yard line. And why souldn't they want more? After all it was the 9ers. The same team that ran up the score on the Rams the previous year because they wanted to pad Steve Young’s stats. The same coaches that Dick Vermeil was furious with the year before for showing their class of running up the score for statistical purposes. Even though justice demanded that the Rams run the score up to 49 points instead of twice taking a knee on the ***** 2 yard line Dick Vermeil gave the ***** a true lesson in class. Vermeil mentioned that some guys on the other side were his friends. In essence Dick Vermeil took pity on the *****.

Early it looked as if the birth right of the 9ers (lucky bounces, referee huddles, timely penalties) was in full bloom. The 9ers' first punt was muffed by Rams return man Az-Zahir Hakim. One happy referee signaled the ball belonged to the *****, As the bodies over the lose football were un-stacked there was no Rams player to be seen. It looked as if the 9ers hadn't missed a beat as far as their luck; but then it happened. The curse of the lucky 9er's was killed. Much to the discomfort of John Madden, the referee's and every 9er fan that expects every bounce and every call to go their loveable 9ers way, the last uniform peeled from the pile was blue and yellow as the Rams emerged with the ball. After the game and notwithstanding the 42-20 shellacking some 9ers were pointing to that play as significant and why not? As it is written into the NFL by-laws if there's a fumbled punt, lucky bounce or close call by the officials, it is always supposed to go for the 9ers.
With the officials destine to make up for the fact that the 9ers failed to get their patented 9er break they huddled up in the second quarter when rookie Pierson Prioleau interfered with Hakim in fielding another punt and as should be, a penalty flag was thrown. But wait! In classic 9er / referee style the referee's huddled up and bogusly decided that Pierson Prioleau was blocked into Hakim. Yes it was the typical call favoring the 9ers which backed the Rams up which was followed by a Warner fumble in the end zone to give the 9ers their birth right of a cheap score. Surely you didn't think the 9ers could go a whole game without something such as this did you?
Tony Horne returned a kickoff for the distance which broke the game open. The 9ers' attempts on 3rd-and-1 then later on 3rd-and-2 were easily stuffed by the Rams defense.
The media's summed up the game in two flavors. First they explained it away with stories such as "Without perennial Pro Bowl quarterback Steve Young, the San Francisco 9ers were unable to continue their decade-long domination of the St. Louis Rams." Yes that's correct, if Steve Young had not been sitting on the sidelines unscrambling his classy brain things would have been different. Did they mention that the Rams were also playing with a backup quarterback? Did they mention that Marshall Faulk and Robert Holcombe were out much of the game due to injuries? Nope! Because excuses are reserved for the 9ers.
Bay area news papers explained away Jeff Garcia’s 3 interceptions in the 4th quarter as "having to play catch-up football". In case you don't get it, what they are admitting is that unlike the Rams they lack the ability to throw anything other then their avalanche of 3 yard passes. The curse of the 9er died on this day.

[BBlades89]

What are you talking about? The Refs NEVER screw up!

[RamTime]

The evidence keeps mounting.

NFL rule 12, Sec. 2, Personal Fouls, article 8(d) states: "running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead" is unnecessary roughness.

I knew I had read this rule some place and I heard Madden comment on it once as well. On the play where the Patriot defender looked to spear Bruce as Bruce was on the ground is the play I am refering to.

[dfarrar777]

Personally, I'm not entirely convinced that a group of NFL referees could go through with a fix. A halfway decent fix requires far too much intelligence.

While I think there is enough historical evidence that refs (possibly directed by the NFL) will err on the side of certain teams, a flat-out fix is a little tough for me to swallow.

Re: disciplinary action against incompetent officials, when was the last time you heard about an official getting fired/decked out of the playoffs for screwing up? It just doesn't happen. Tom White was fined $2,600 (half a game check) for his abysmal performance in the 2003 Ravens/Seahawks game - that's about as far as it goes.

[Masspatsfan12]

the evidence is inconclusive.

[Fargo Ram Fan]

If you whine and pout long enough IM SURE the NFL will reverse the outcome of the game and give the Rams the trophy...oy vey. :tut

[RamTime]

If you whine and pout long enough IM SURE the NFL will reverse the outcome of the game and give the Rams the trophy...oy vey. :tut

And if you sit around and take it in the a$$ I'm sure you will get it again there.