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  1. #16
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    I do have fun. Not trying to ruffle any feathers. Just that it gets annoying watching some of our fans flip flop and spin everything in our favor. It's not all sunshine and jello pudding pops for our team. We're just the same as the rest. There's good and bad.


  2. #17
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    Now he signs and we're all saying, "so what, he won't do em any good." That's stupid and makes us look ignorant and as if we only conveniently spin things in the Rams favor.
    Show me where we all said that. Because I don't see it, and I'd appreciate knowing where I'm being stupid and looking ignorant. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    And secondly, how is Seattle signing Alexander to a one year deal them getting on their knees and submitting to him?
    Look at the terms of the deal, and you'll see how unbalanced it is. Alexander gets his $6M+ guaranteed, can't be traded to a team he doesn't approve of, and can't be franchised after this season by the 'Hawks. And this works out for Seattle how again, besides the fact that they get a disgruntled Alexander into camp? He has no trade value to them because he controls where he's traded, they get no money back if he should get injured and sit out of any number of games, and they have no way to retain him via franchise tag if they're unable to acquire a servicable replacement before next March. Yeah, the Seahawks made a killing on this one!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    They got him to do what they wanted! Hello?! They didn't submit to anything other than telling him that they won't trade him or franchise him next year. That's called good business people.
    ...you can't be serious. You're telling me the Seahawks wanted to give Alexander over $6M+ of guaranteed money, wanted him to have the Veto power for any potential trade they work up, and didn't want to be able to use the franchise tag on him again next year should they be without a halfback option for 2006. And you call this good business?

    Wow.
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  3. #18
    KurtWarner2005MVP's Avatar
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Seiler, you are exhibiting exactly what I'm saying. Seattle has been trying to get Alexander to accept the franchise tender for ever. They want him for this season. The 6 mil has already been slotted for him. The only hang up was the fact that he wanted a long term deal. That's not a problem now. Now if they want to replace him next year they'll have the chance to replace him. That isn't the case now. And Alexander isn't going to be angry. I've already read him saying that he is happy with the deal. Cuz he will either get a long term deal from Seattle (which is still open to discussion the team is saying), or he gets to hit the open market. And he will be playing this year with something to prove. Seattle didn't give up anything they wanted. They couldn't get the trade they wanted in the first place, so him playing for them was the only option outside of flat out cutting him. They didn't want to get caught up in a long term big money deal, mission accomplished. I don't see how it's so hard for us Ram fans to realize. Everybody outside of St. Louis is calling this a win-win for both Alexander and Seattle. The Skwak fans seem to be pretty happy. So should I assume then that everybody, all the espn people, all the nfl experts, all the seattle fans who have followed this situation closely, are all wrong. That everybody is blind to how horrible this deal is except for fans of the Rams? Really, is that the case?

    I don't know why I have to defend the seachickens on this one here. It's pretty ridiculous. I'm just as annoyed at this as the rest. I was hoping to go up against Maurece Morris and Carrie Carter, not a freaking pro bowler. Oh well, we got our two new stud linebackers to shut him down.

  4. #19
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    Cuz he will either get a long term deal from Seattle (which is still open to discussion the team is saying)
    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    They didn't want to get caught up in a long term big money deal, mission accomplished.
    So which is it? Either you're arguing that the 'Hawks want to sign Alexander long term, or they don't. Can't have your cake and eat it, too. If the Seahawks don't want to get caught up in long term big money as you claim, why are they still open to discussing long term contracts... as you claim?

    Funny, I suspect they are still interested in getting something done. And I'll show you why:

    Today on KFFL.com...

    -"The Seahawks and Alexander's agents still plan to talk about a long-term deal, which is what Alexander sought in the first place."

    Today on Seahawks.com...

    -"Now Ruskell, Seahawks vice president Mike Reinfeldt and Alexander's agent Jim Steiner can begin the dance of the long-term contract, which until the tender was signed, was not doable."

    Hmmm. Two quotes as recent as today confirming the organization's interest in a long term contract. Well I'll be!

    And if that's the case, then Seattle did not get what it wanted in this deal, which basically gives Alexander a one-way ticket to the Land of Free Agency where plenty of other teams will be willing to cough up the dough for his services.


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    Everybody outside of St. Louis is calling this a win-win for both Alexander and Seattle.
    Man, news must travel fast to Kansas City. Not only have you already heard Alexander's comments about a news story that just broke earlier today/tonight, but also analyst reactions as well. I'd love to see some of the articles or reports from tonight that have applauded this deal for Seattle, if only so I can laugh.

    For the third time now, let's look at this from the Seattle perspective. Shaun Alexander is going to want the big bucks, so he's going to want to test the market and maximize his earnings. The idea that Seattle is going to somehow lock him up long term before he starts talking with other teams is ridiculous. And since they've now given up their ability to franchise tag him, they have no way of getting any kind of compensation for losing him.

    Obviously teams don't want him now because trading for him means you absorb his $6M+ price tag, and who in the NFL right now not only has that much room under the cap to not only add the player (most teams haven't even signed many of their rookies!) but would also be willing to give up a first day pick for a player who's going to want a huge payday?

    There's a reason a guy like Travis Henry got so much attention while studs like James and Alexander, both carrying the tender amount and both seeking long term deals immediately, did not. You think Seattle didn't sign Alexander long term because they just didn't want to? I think I've already shown that's not entirely the case. More than likely, they haven't signed Alexander long term because, last I heard, he's asking for a contract that would probably include a signing bonus in the $15-$18 million range (source: KFFL), which is way too much for a 'back who will be 28 in August. But I guarantee you if either of these players hit the market in March, when teams have cap room to work around and don't have to give up day one picks, they'll be seeing loads of offers, not quite as pricey but still substantial, and their former teams get NOTHING for letting them go.

    So again, I don't see how this is a good deal for Seattle. If Alexander tests the market next year, which he's almost guaranteed to do, they'll have gotten no compensation for someone they could have franchised and tried to trade. The only good that comes out of this situation for the Seahawks is that he'll be playing in 2005. You can't say he'll no longer be a distraction, because we don't know that. He complained last year while under contract about not getting the ball. You can't tell me that franchising him again in 2006 for slightly over $1M more than what he's making now was so horrible of a prospect that they just had to get him signed ASAP to this number. No. See, in my opinion, being unable to trade him to acquire compensation for his leaving and being unable to franchise him in 2006 are not positives in the Seahawk camp. They're big, fat negatives. Meanwhile, Alexander gets over six million dollars guaranteed, even if he doesn't play a down this year. He doesn't get traded unless he approves it, and he's free to test the market next year with no ties keeping him to Seattle.

    Yes, please continue telling me how this situation isn't completely lop-sided toward the player. :drunk:
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  5. #20
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Alexander is a very good back, and has had some good games against the Rams. But that has not prevented the Rams from winning 4/5 against the Seahawks in the past 2 years.

    As for the deal, clearly it was the Seahawks, and not Alexander, who "blinked." The Hawks had all the bargaining power. They could have said "its the tender or nothing," and waited Alexander out. Despite all his talk about holding out, Alexander, like TO and E.James, would have ultimately folded and reported.

    Instead, they've given him the same money as the tender, and given up the right to either trade him (without his consent) during the season or to franchise him next year. Those were entirely unnecessary concessions, and set up a situation in which the Hawks stand to lose Alexander to FA next year with relatively minimal compensation (probably a 3rd round supplemental pick, as opposed to 2 first rounders which are given for a franchise player).

    In the short run, the Hawks have solved the Alexander problem. In the long run, they will likely either overpay on a long term deal (having given up the leverage of the franchise tag) or lose Alexander to FA.

    Funny to see the Seahawks lose at a game of "chicken."

  6. #21
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Not worried about Alexander or the Gulls, Worried that the Rams won't get to playoffs. :clanram:
    "Championship's are won with defense" :angryram:

  7. #22
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    As I understand it, Steve Hutchinson is a FA next year. Maybe, the Seahawks believe they will have to use the tag on him, so giving it up for SA isn't a big deal. No facts, I'm just speculating. But it does seem odd that they would give up their trade rights. If he walks next year, they get a 3rd round pick at best, depending on his play and the FAs they sign in his stead, I believe. Why not wait for the tender and then work for a trade during the year to the team of THEIR choosing instead of his? Surely, they could guarantee a 3rd rounder for him...I mean that's what Gordon brought us, surely SA is worth more.

    But then again, it's all moot if SA signs long-term, which begs the question, why offer the one-year contract and all bargaining power? There must be more to this one, it just doesn't seem to make much sense for the FO.

    But hey, what does a simple preacher know about NFL negotiations anyway?

  8. #23
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Here's the speculation and elation over at seahawks camp. We are happy that he is here for TC, great news for Hawks fans. The one year deal is not a sticking point for most fans because most believe that he will either be signed long term or sign elsewhere next year. If he signs long term, good for us. If they don't believe that they can sign him, then we will either draft a RB early next year or try to acquire one via FA. Some names that popped up over at seahawks.net are Reggie Bush, and Edge James. Most believe they would address that situation via the draft though.

    However SA has said he wants to stay in Seattle throughout his career, so most of the fans don't see why a deal won't get done unless SA demands are outrageous or unless the FO wants to go another direction at that position.

    To be fair, not all evil robots are killers.

  9. #24
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    First off to Seiler, it's not a cake and eat it too situation. Alexander didn't have teams tearing down the doors to get him this year, and next year he will be a year older. His contractual demands may very well be a bit lower next year when he is an unrestricted free agent. Teams have proven to not want to shell out big bucks for a 30 year old back. Alexander's terms may have to lower once he sees what he will be offered next year. This year, since he had the franchise tag, he had a guarranteed 6.5 mil, so he could be stubborn and demand a big money long term deal. I don't think he even ever really negotiated with other teams. So his idea of what he's worth was a ways off. 30 year old rb's get screwed in the NFL, just the way it is. They get 5 year rookie deals, and when they're up they're considered old by NFL standards. Alexander thinks he sould get more than NFL teams think. Next year may be a bit different. I'm not saying that Seattle made out like bandits, just that it was a win win. Both got what they wanted, except for Alexander getting a long term deal. It shouldn't be ignored that Seattle gets SA in for all of training camp. Had he held out and gotten out of shape, he might be lost for half the season. That's a big plus in my mind.

    And Avenger, nobody would have EVER given them 2 first rounders for him. Using that as a negative is just trying to make Seattle look bad cuz you don't like them. Since Sean Gilbert signing in Carolina it hasn't happened. I read that Seattle would've traded Alexander for a 1st this past year. They obviously had no takers. They won't get two next year. And second, I really doubt that had they had the option next year the Skwakies would've tagged him anyway. I can't speak too much, but I'm sure if they franchise him again next year it will be even more than 6.5 mil. Ask rawkhrdr, but I doubt they'd even do that. So really, agreeing to not trade him during the season or tag him is a whole lot about nothing.
    Last edited by KurtWarner2005MVP; -07-27-2005 at 11:36 AM.

  10. #25
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    So really, agreeing to not trade him during the season or tag him is a whole lot about nothing
    I gotta disagree with this one. During the season, there will be teams lose their RB to injury. It happens every year, it will happen this year. And that is when SA's value will be its highest. Had the Hawks maintained their trade leverage, they could ask a king's ransom for SA. I mean we got an extremely high 3rd round pick for Lamar Gordon. Wouldn't you agree that SA is worth more than Gordon? But as it is, the ball is in SA's court. Regardless of what a team will offer for him during the season, if he doesn't want to go, he won't be going.
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  11. #26
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    And Avenger, nobody would have EVER given them 2 first rounders for him. Using that as a negative is just trying to make Seattle look bad cuz you don't like them. Since Sean Gilbert signing in Carolina it hasn't happened.
    That's not the point. Its not a question of whether someone would be willing to give 2 first round picks. Its a question of bargaining power. Take Orlando Pace's situation. The Rams could demand a high ransom from the Texans, who wanted to trade for him, because they knew that the Texans' only other option was to sign him and pay the penalty of 2 first rounders (as it was, the Rams could have traded Pace for at least a first rounder to the Texans, but opted not to do so). If the Rams didn't have a franchise tag on Pace, they would have had no leverage at all, and Pace could have just signed with Houston (giving the Rams only a supplemental pick as compensation). That's what likely could happen with Alexander because the Hawks gave up their leverage.

    I really doubt that had they had the option next year the Skwakies would've tagged him anyway. I can't speak too much, but I'm sure if they franchise him again next year it will be even more than 6.5 mil. Ask rawkhrdr, but I doubt they'd even do that. So really, agreeing to not trade him during the season or tag him is a whole lot about nothing.
    Well, that's entirely speculation, but if the Hawks had the choice of franchising Alexander or losing him in free agency with virtually no compensation, I suspect they'd opt to franchise him.

    Now, they don't get to make that choice, because they prematurely gave up the franchise right. Again, Alexander bluffed, and the Hawks management blinked.

  12. #27
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher Jim
    As I understand it, Steve Hutchinson is a FA next year. Maybe, the Seahawks believe they will have to use the tag on him, so giving it up for SA isn't a big deal.
    Good point, Hutchinson's contract is up in 2005.


    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher Jim
    Surely, they could guarantee a 3rd rounder for him...I mean that's what Gordon brought us, surely SA is worth more.
    I would say he's worth more than Travis Henry as well, who also was traded for a third round pick.
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  13. #28
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    Reggie Bush
    Reggie Bush is a top five pick, so the Seahawks would probably have to lose double digit games to have a shot at being close enough to grab him.

    I'm assuming the Seahawks will finish somewhere in the middle of the pack for draft picks, so I think names like Laurence Maroney and DeAngelo Williams are more likely first round candidates. Then again, anything can change I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    However SA has said he wants to stay in Seattle throughout his career, so most of the fans don't see why a deal won't get done unless SA demands are outrageous or unless the FO wants to go another direction at that position.
    I agree, he has said he wants to stay in Seattle. But now that he knows he'll have the ability to hear offers from other teams in March, why would he not take advantage of that by signing long-term early on with Seattle? He's reported to want anywhere from $15-18 million in signing bonus, and I'm sure the Seahawks can't afford and probably don't want to give that to him. Why would he not see if he could get it elsewhere?
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  14. #29
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    First off to Seiler, it's not a cake and eat it too situation.
    I'm not talking about the situation. I'm talking about your post. In the same post, you claimed Seattle still was interested in signing him long term, only to turn around and say they didn't want to get caught up in a long term big money deal. You can't have it both ways, and I'm referring to YOU, not Alexander.


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    Alexander didn't have teams tearing down the doors to get him this year
    And I explained why, showing that it probably was not because of a lack of interest, but moreso because of the situation - having to clear over $6 million in cap space, trade a first day draft choice, and sign him long-term.


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    Both got what they wanted, except for Alexander getting a long term deal.
    You have yet to show me Seattle got ANYTHING that isn't in the short term. I agree they get Alexander this season, which is a plus for their immediate success. But they sacrificed any leverage they had in the future to retain him or trade him for higher compensation. Anyone who would call that a "win" needs to reevaluate their definitions for success.


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    And Avenger, nobody would have EVER given them 2 first rounders for him.
    That wasn't his point at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by KurtWarner2005MVP
    I'm sure if they franchise him again next year it will be even more than 6.5 mil.
    It would be around $7.6 million, but that's hardly too much to pay if they're already paying $6.3 or so now. Plus, they'd then have the right to match any offer he gets or receive big compensation if he goes elsewhere. Now, they get neither.
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  15. #30
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    Re: Alexander signs...

    Could we get some of our skwak friends to comment on this situation please? I would like you guys to explain to some of us why you aren't getting screwed on this Alexander deal. Thanks.

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