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  1. #16
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    I think cutler is smart enough to know that he could not help the team in that situation. A sprained MCL is gonna effect any number of things for a QB, from moving in the pocket, scrambling, and even setting your feet. I think he knew that him going in to the game would have been detrimental to the team. As for him not trying to help the team, well espn has been running a montage of cutler on the sidelines all day today, in one bit he is clearly sitting on the bench going over what appeares to be coverage schemes with his backup.


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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I've never liked or respected Cutler. His history has shown that he has no physical or mental toughness and crumples like tin foil under pressure, then regularly pouts, sulks and cries. I'm very interested to see just how "bad" his injury is because he certainly did not look like a guy who was suffering. I would understand him not being in the game if his play would have been a detriment to the team, but it didn't apprear to me that he tried in any way to gut it out and see what he could do.

    IMO, any "injured" NFL QB with half a heart would have to be dragged off the field kicking and screaming, or laying on a stretcher with a chance to go to the Super Bowl on the line. Marc Bulger played with multiple broken ribs a few years ago for a team going nowhere, and in his final game as a Ram on a broken leg. Brett Favre played with two broken bones in his ankle this year on a last place team. We all know about Jack Youngblood. Maybe Cutler really couldn't play, but he'll never be confused with any player that posseses a warrior mentality.
    Except for the part of the program where Bears Doctors wanted to take him out 1) after the injury and 2) at halftime and he ignored them both times. And was only pulled when it became apparent to Bears coaches that the injury had critically reduced his effectiveness.

    And yes, the above is the Bears official story about what happened on Sunday. Granted it doesn't fit the meta narrative, so *shrugs*

    As for the Bulger and Favre injuries, my rebuttal is that neither player was rather effective after that injury. Playing through the pain makes for good copy but rarely actually results in victory for your team.

  3. #18
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Except for the part of the program where Bears Doctors wanted to take him out 1) after the injury and 2) at halftime and he ignored them both times. And was only pulled when it became apparent to Bears coaches that the injury had critically reduced his effectiveness.

    And yes, the above is the Bears official story about what happened on Sunday. Granted it doesn't fit the meta narrative, so *shrugs*

    As for the Bulger and Favre injuries, my rebuttal is that neither player was rather effective after that injury. Playing through the pain makes for good copy but rarely actually results in victory for your team.
    Again, lets' see what the real fallout is from Cutler's injury and whether or not the Bears doctors had it right during the game. In reference to the coaches decision to pull him, could that have been a result of his inability to handle the pressure? I mean, it wasn't like he was limping around or writhing in pain.

    With regard to the Bulger and Farve examples, I'm making the point that players can play through adversity and pain if they've got it in them. Who knows, if Cutler showed the same grittiness and toughness, the Bears might be playing the Steelers in the Super Bowl. Then again, his long history of falling flat on his face in big games was also a good possibility.

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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    How do you know he's not on the wireless mike helping to relay plays? It's not good to be animated about doing that. And with an iffy knee he's probably not going to grab a pom pom from the nearest cheerleader and proclaim "GO TEAM!"

    ------------------------------------------------
    To laram0. If a quarterback has a knee injury both his mobility and general ability to throw on target will be greatly inhibited by the injury. And such inhibitions are detrimental to the success of the team. He's not Tom Nutten, who only has to block the guy in front of him.

    Honestly, the cult of meathead "Rah play until your crippled, and then play harder because of the team or circumstances" logic is one of the few thing I genuinely hate about football.

    Maybe your point could be valid but since there was a fricken camera the whole time and he wasn't talking just sitting like he was at a park on the bench. I think this could be the reason..... what ya think? btw this isn't mission impossible with micro hidden mics.....

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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Again, lets' see what the real fallout is from Cutler's injury and whether or not the Bears doctors had it right during the game. In reference to the coaches decision to pull him, could that have been a result of his inability to handle the pressure? I mean, it wasn't like he was limping around or writhing in pain.

    With regard to the Bulger and Farve examples, I'm making the point that players can play through adversity and pain if they've got it in them. Who knows, if Cutler showed the same grittiness and toughness, the Bears might be playing the Steelers in the Super Bowl. Then again, his long history of falling flat on his face in big games was also a good possibility.
    Did you actually watch the game? His accuracy was very down in the second quarter and that first drive of the third. This wasn't a matter of grittiness or toughness. This was a matter of being physically able to do your job. And playing through the pain rings hollow when, rather than aiding your team to victory, it ends up hurting it. A virtually immobilized Bulger was unable to beat Arizona (and indeed, that lack of mobility helped him literally get his block knocked off at the end of the game.) Minnesota didn't exactly win many games with the broken-down gunslinger this season either, and Favre's numbers were down this season. Badly.

    Regarding the whole concept of "playing through the pain" here's my point. A player with a serious injury should only stay on the field IF the player, with that injury, would still be more effective than their healthy replacement. Cutler wasn't, so there was a need to get him off the field.

  6. #21
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiaRam View Post
    Maybe your point could be valid but since there was a fricken camera the whole time and he wasn't talking just sitting like he was at a park on the bench. I think this could be the reason..... what ya think? btw this isn't mission impossible with micro hidden mics.....
    Except Fox didn't keep the camera on him at all time, but only cut to him when it was convenient to reinforce the "quitter" narrative. Except for the one moment where they accidentally slipped and did show him going over coverage schemes with Hanie. Boy, they cut away from that one real fast.

  7. #22
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Did you actually watch the game? His accuracy was very down in the second quarter and that first drive of the third. This wasn't a matter of grittiness or toughness. This was a matter of being physically able to do your job. And playing through the pain rings hollow when, rather than aiding your team to victory, it ends up hurting it. A virtually immobilized Bulger was unable to beat Arizona (and indeed, that lack of mobility helped him literally get his block knocked off at the end of the game.) Minnesota didn't exactly win many games with the broken-down gunslinger this season either, and Favre's numbers were down this season. Badly.

    Regarding the whole concept of "playing through the pain" here's my point. A player with a serious injury should only stay on the field IF the player, with that injury, would still be more effective than their healthy replacement. Cutler wasn't, so there was a need to get him off the field.
    I actually did watch the game, and what I saw was Cutler having no problems moving around the field in the second half. No limping or favoring one leg over the other. No gritting his teeth going back to the huddle after a play. I also saw Cutler wandering the sideline, riding a stationary bike relatively vigorously and exhibiting blank, bored expressions on the bench.

    Cutler hasn't been able to handle pressure or adversity in a do or die game his entire career. When the going gets tough, he curls up into the fetal position and wilts, so forgive me if I doubt his inability to play, especially given his actions on the sideline. His failure to execute in the second half was par for the course and his normal pattern of behavior in big games where circumstances take him out of his comfort zone.

    It's also interesting that the Bears staff never reported that he would not return, but that he was "questionable".

  8. #23
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Except Fox didn't keep the camera on him at all time, but only cut to him when it was convenient to reinforce the "quitter" narrative. Except for the one moment where they accidentally slipped and did show him going over coverage schemes with Hanie. Boy, they cut away from that one real fast.
    Ok I can give that to you, I know there job is to create drama but seriously from everything else you did see of him you cant tell me he was not into it like ive seen any other QB knocked out of the game and onto the sideline.

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I actually did watch the game, and what I saw was Cutler having no problems moving around the field in the second half. No limping or favoring one leg over the other. No gritting his teeth going back to the huddle after a play. I also saw Cutler wandering the sideline, riding a stationary bike relatively vigorously and exhibiting blank, bored expressions on the bench.

    Cutler hasn't been able to handle pressure or adversity in a do or die game his entire career. When the going gets tough, he curls up into the fetal position and wilts, so forgive me if I doubt his inability to play, especially given his actions on the sideline. His failure to execute in the second half was par for the course and his normal pattern of behavior in big games where circumstances take him out of his comfort zone.

    It's also interesting that the Bears staff never reported that he would not return, but that he was "questionable".
    See this is what I seen exactly. It wasn't like Cutler just couldn't walk he just lost his nerve. Sure he might of been physically injuried but your telling me Phillip Rivers playing with a completely torn ACL is less then a partially torn/strained MCL injury? Not EVEN!! Cutler folds on anygame that matters that there is pressure... Remember those great Charger-Bronco battles between Cutler and Rivers? Rivers always outdid him cuz he had the nerve and the poise the drive through the adversity and I think that is the whole point that everyone is concerned about.

  9. #24
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Rivers' statline for the aforementioned glorious gutting it out game:

    19-37, 211 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT in a 12-21 San Diego loss.

    San Diego kicked figgies on 3 Red Zone drives.
    Imagine what would have happened had San Diego had a healthy QB.

  10. #25
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Rivers' statline for the aforementioned glorious gutting it out game:

    19-37, 211 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT in a 12-21 San Diego loss.

    San Diego kicked figgies on 3 Red Zone drives.
    Imagine what would have happened had San Diego had a healthy QB.
    Okay, I'll bite.

    Ben Roethlisberger, playing against Baltimore with an oversized shoe to help protect a broken right foot, gets his nose broken and moved to another part of his face as blood spews down his jersey, yet he guts it out and doesn't miss a beat as he leads his team to a 4th quarter comeback 13-10 victory despite having to limp his way around the field, going 22-38 for 253 yards, with a TD and an INT. The warrior mentality, there is no substitute. Cutler would be a great player and a winner if he had a fraction of Big Ben's heart.

  11. #26
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Okay, I'll bite.

    Ben Roethlisberger, playing against Baltimore with an oversized shoe to help protect a broken right foot, gets his nose broken and moved to another part of his face as blood spews down his jersey, yet he guts it out and doesn't miss a beat as he leads his team to a 4th quarter comeback 13-10 victory despite having to limp his way around the field, going 22-38 for 253 yards, with a TD and an INT. The warrior mentality, there is no substitute. Cutler would be a great player and a winner if he had a fraction of Big Ben's heart.
    He'd also be a disgusting piece of human trash who can't interact with the opposite sex without giving them a few blows to "soften them up". But it's all good because Roethlisberger has heart and the warrior mentality. *eyeroll*

    For the record, the game-winning TD in question was more the doing of Troy Polumalu, who forced the fumble and returned the ball to the Baltimore 9. Subsequent to that, Roethlisberger threw 2 incompletes before making a 3rd down pass to Isaac Redman at the 5 (who then broke 2 tackles in order to get into the endzone.) Courage y'all.

  12. #27
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    He'd also be a disgusting piece of human trash who can't interact with the opposite sex without giving them a few blows to "soften them up". But it's all good because Roethlisberger has heart and the warrior mentality. *eyeroll*

    For the record, the game-winning TD in question was more the doing of Troy Polumalu, who forced the fumble and returned the ball to the Baltimore 9. Subsequent to that, Roethlisberger threw 2 incompletes before making a 3rd down pass to Isaac Redman at the 5 (who then broke 2 tackles in order to get into the endzone.) Courage y'all.
    Interesting rant. I think we're clear on your opinion of Roethlisberger, and that injured QB's can indeed gut it out, persevere, be effective, and sometimes lead their team to victory if they have the right mentality.

    Now, back to Cutler. Your assertion is that he got injured, was so handicapped that he could not do his job, and as a result was pulled. That is certainly possible, but I think a legitimate case can be made that he mailed it in. He has a history of needing a comfort zone, and when taken out of that comfort zone, he crumbles. He's shown no toughness or grit at any point of his career and usually goes into the tank during meaningful games that challenge him. There are also legitimate questions about the behavior he exhibited on and off the field against Green Bay. I find it a bit odd that he showed absolutely no sign of injury when he was playing, none. Then on the sideline after being pulled, he was doing his best Lance Armstrong impression despite a supposedly debilitating injury that allowed him to do nothing more than walk. Add the fact that his return was never ruled out and that his status was ultimately reported as "questionable" (despite the opinion of team doctors that he not play), and it all just doesn't add up for me.

    I have my opinion and you have yours. Obviously no one is wrong or right here, and as Nick noted, only Cutler knows the real story.

  13. #28
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Rivers' statline for the aforementioned glorious gutting it out game:

    19-37, 211 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT in a 12-21 San Diego loss.

    San Diego kicked figgies on 3 Red Zone drives.
    Imagine what would have happened had San Diego had a healthy QB.
    Of course, All Pro running back LaDainian Tomlinson didn't play beyond the first five minutes of that game, and Pro Bowl tight end Antonio Gates was in and out of the line-up due to a dislocated toe. Surely missing his top two scoring options affected Rivers' effectiveness, no? I mean, if you're arguing that the role that other players had in the outcome of Roethlisberger's game is relevant, then it's only fair to do the same for Rivers.

    There are unquestionably times when your point - a fresh, healthy reserve player can help their team more or be more effective than an injured starting player - is true. But it's not universally true; it depends on the personnel in any given situation. In some instances, when the talent gap is significant, a hurt starter still probably provides a better chance to win than a healthy back-up. Consider who Cutler was being replaced with. Todd Collins played in two games during 2010, and in both appearances, he couldn't muster a QB rating outside of the single digits. The Bears didn't think much more of Caleb Hanie, who was behind an awful Collins on the depth chart and listed as the emergency third QB. So does a wobbly Cutler give the Bears a better chance to win than either of these two? I think that case could be made.

    I think one of the biggest problems with this argument is that it's probably hard for critics to accept that Cutler's knee injury was just too severe to play through when the Bears didn't seem to believe that at the time nor did they treat it like a severe knee injury. They had the entire halftime period to evaluate him, and yet they (1) thought he was good enough to try again in the second half, (2) listed his return to the game as "questionable," (3) allowed him to roam the sidelines and ride the stationary bike, and (4) did not equip him with a protective brace or crutches to restrict his use of the leg, even after the game was over.

    When you consider all of that, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to wonder if the injury really was too severe to play through. In the end, only Cutler knows. I think the reaction by other players around the league (and according to this article, even some Chicago players) may give a bit of insight as to how Cutler is perceived by those who share the field with him. This obviously isn't the first time a player has gone to the sidelines due to an injury, but it's the first time I remember seeing this kind of backlash from other players, not just fans and the media.

  14. #29
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    Re: Bryan Burwell Burwell: Cutler provokes a storm ..

    All of this just comes down to one thing, Cutler does not enjoy playing football, unless things are going his way. I do not know an awful lot about the guy, and his upbringing? But for someone making a living playing professional sports, he does not look as if he is enjoying it.
    UNGRATEFUL ISNT THE WORD, MISERABLE GIT.

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