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  1. #1
    moklerman's Avatar
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    Cardinals fans upset with me

    Isn't it amazing how a statement can be made that is meant to be one thing and completely gets blown out of proportion.

    I've frequented one of the Cardinals fan sites since Warner became a Cardinal. I prefer the fan sites because in general there is a lot less troll activity. So, I was very straightforward from the beginning and have restated my position many times that I migrated to their board because of Warner. I wasn't trying to pass myself off as a Cardinals fan or being unrealistic in my support of Warner.

    Not much has changed since his days as a Ram. He still has a crappy, undisciplined line, a new OC/HC just about every year, a young QB to compete with for playing time and a mediocre(at best) franchise backing him up. All of his turnovers are magnified(justified in some cases, some not) and there is a very loud, vocal minority that blame him for the Cardinals' woes.

    Like I said, nothing new there and no one on either side of the fence is going to change their mind about him any time soon. But, amongst all of this banter, someone felt compelled to talk down to me for being a fan of Warner. Now, I'll debate and argue his merits on the field 'til the cows come home. I enjoy it and it's just fun for me to analyze all the numbers, situations and circumstances surrounding the arguements about him and football in general. But talking down to me because I root for Warner? From a Cardinals fan?

    I didn't want to get into a "you suck" "no, you suck" situation but I was insulted and felt compelled to point out that regardless of what Warner's doing now, a Cardinals fan hasn't the right to talk down to me for being a fan when they don't have anything comparable in terms of success. I stated it pretty much in those terms. I didn't say the franchise sucks or that it's fans suck or anything like that. At best, their team's success is on equal ground with other franchises and in general, they're looking up at everyone else.

    I tried to point out that if a Patriots fan wants to talk smack and brag about having much more success than the Cardinals, that there's not really much to say to it and that it seems irrational to try and argue that the Cards(or many ohter teams) have as much bragging rights as the Patriots.

    This example, of course, flew right over everyone's head and many were all hurt that I was calling them 2nd class fans(which I wasn't) and upset that I was telling them what they could or couldn't say, etc. I'm not flaunting Warner's past success on anyone either. His awards were a long time ago and don't represent what he's doing now. BUT, he's still got them under his belt. He's still a 2 time MVP, etc. He has reached and earned success that the Cardinals and it's players haven't.

    It just seems ridiculous to me to think that you can talk smack to someone when you haven't anything to brag about. Ever. They talk of being "true" fans because they stick with the team or root for a bad team. That seems absurd to me as well. Why be proud of a franchise that openly and obviously craps on it's fans? The Rams have dealt with that for years. There was a nice little spike that I think all of us hoped was a change in the M.O. but other than that 5 year stretch of success and drama, the franchise is what it's been ever since GF took over.

    But you won't catch me bragging to Patriots fans that I'm a true fan because I stick by a team that's very craptacular in it's approach and results on the field. That would be idiotic. Even if I did, I could at least point to a few high points to try and justify what I was saying. But realistically, what would a Card's fan say that would really be superior to someone else?

    And I wasn't saying any of this to them to put them down. I didn't start it, didn't want it to continue and tried to point it out in the most clinical way possible. Talk crap about Warner if you want but don't talk crap about me rooting for him. That's all. If you start that kind of argument against me, you'll lose if I decide to play. You'll lose against just about anyone that you try that against. It's not mean, it's not personal, it's the franchise that you chose to root for and the franchise that has failed it's fans more than any other. Why, as that team's fan, would you start a pissin' contest?


  2. #2
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    I went to some fan sites after it was announced Warner had signed with them and the message from day one was clear, "Warner fans, we don't want you!", which I guess was understandable.

    Arizona Cardinals fans have had a chip on their shoulders for some time now, or that's the impression I get from going to the Rams/Cardinals games every year. They believe the inevitable yearly hype that they're going to turn the corner and be a good team, but they're always disappointed, this year being no exception. Their bitter nature is to be expected.

    As far as being "true" fans, one only has to go any ticket site and see the thousands and thousands of tickets on sale for every game offered to the highest bidder, despite the fact that the University of Phoenix Stadium has been sold-out with season ticket holders the last two years.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    I'm over there a lot as well, on the official message boards.
    There are about 6 or 7 fans over there who just flat out hate Warner, and I know that most of the Warner haters hate him because of his religious beliefs.

    Warner has his own small following (and I'll admit, I've followed him around with the Giants as well ), and a few fans on the Cards MB just didn't want the Warner trolls over there, those that blame every INT and mistake he makes purely on the Cardinals O-line or WRs. Yeah, the O-line has screwed him over a lot, and the WRs have dropped several passes or ran horrible routes that resulted in an INT, but I will admit when Warner just throws a bad pass. As long as you are balanced, the Cards fans will gladly talk with you.
    I've been there since Warner arrived, and I've seen the Warner haters. As I said, those 6 or so will make the board look very bad, but in realism, most of the board likes Kurt.
    It is just that small group of fans that makes them look bad. Heck, you can't even reason with a few (I wouldn't doubt I know the person you were talking with, lol).

  4. #4
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    Actually, I've seen a lot less of the hatred/frustration on the official board than the fan site that I go to. Someone started a poll on the offiicial site: "love him or hate him" and it was like 84-4 the last time I looked.

    I've been guilty of doing it sometimes so I guess it's understandable but to me, many fans automatically consider any defense of Warner, absolution of his mistakes.

    There has been more than one conversation about his turnover ratio and how it's, in my opinion, somewhat skewed by fluke plays that have worked against Warner's statline. I'm a believer in things balancing out and I don't excuse most of Warner's turnovers but the chipshot fg miss in OT, receivers with a head start an open path to the endzone stepping out of bounds or getting caught from behind, Tim Rattay vulturing goal line opportunities, etc. Realistically, a lot of these things are just flukish and if you consider them, Warner's statline changes rather quickly.

  5. #5
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    Actually, I've seen a lot less of the hatred/frustration on the official board than the fan site that I go to. Someone started a poll on the offiicial site: "love him or hate him" and it was like 84-4 the last time I looked.

    I've been guilty of doing it sometimes so I guess it's understandable but to me, many fans automatically consider any defense of Warner, absolution of his mistakes.

    There has been more than one conversation about his turnover ratio and how it's, in my opinion, somewhat skewed by fluke plays that have worked against Warner's statline. I'm a believer in things balancing out and I don't excuse most of Warner's turnovers but the chipshot fg miss in OT, receivers with a head start an open path to the endzone stepping out of bounds or getting caught from behind, Tim Rattay vulturing goal line opportunities, etc. Realistically, a lot of these things are just flukish and if you consider them, Warner's statline changes rather quickly.
    Agreed. I have seen about 2 or 3 INTs this year when Fitzgerald got lazy on a route, was virtually walking and not looking, which resulted in an INT.
    But Warner had a great game against the Falcons today, and his stats are comparable with some of the top QBs now, and he didn't even start until the 6th week!

  6. #6
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    He's definitely flying under the radar in terms of media praise. 24 td's and 15 int's is a pretty good year much less a partial one, no matter who you are. Throw in torn elbow ligaments and he should have earned quite a bit of respect and support from his teammates.

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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman View Post
    He's definitely flying under the radar in terms of media praise. 24 td's and 15 int's is a pretty good year much less a partial one, no matter who you are. Throw in torn elbow ligaments and he should have earned quite a bit of respect and support from his teammates.
    I agree mok. I watched the game yesterday and all the announcers could do was pick apart Warner and drone on about his past interceptions and fumbles, while on the field he had a brilliant game. It was actually kind of comical. IMO, he's having a damn good year. I am hoping that it all falls apart on Sunday though, because I want to walk out of the University of Phoenix Stadium tasting victory.

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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    I know its not the busiest site but the only Cardinal site endorced by ClanRam is www.cardinalfreak.com



  9. #9
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    Quote Originally Posted by RamDez View Post
    I know its not the busiest site but the only Cardinal site endorced by ClanRam is www.cardinalfreak.com

    The last time I went to cardinalfreak was to EAT CROW after talking trash......

    They do have some pretty reasonable people over there, maybe I'll pay them a visit. I'm sure they're all giddy with excitement after showing the Falcons who's boss.

  10. #10
    moklerman's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    I agree mok. I watched the game yesterday and all the announcers could do was pick apart Warner and drone on about his past interceptions and fumbles, while on the field he had a brilliant game.
    This was talked about and we kind of concluded that it was largely due to it being Tony Boselli that was doing the talking. He and Leinart are both USC alums and it's not hard to imagine him being biased and talking up Leinart, in part by talking down Warner. He's done many of the Card's games this year and he's always nitpicking the heck out of Warner's plays. He's right sometimes but usually he's spreading generalities.

    "Look how he's just eyeing his receiver" when it's a bunch package or "look how he's throwing into tight coverage' when it's a single coverage matchup with a LB, etc. He seems to just point out things that he's heard in other broadcasts. I've been very underwhelmed by his color commentary.

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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    Yeah, a lot of the Cards fans said it was horrible how Boselli was talking down to Warner. Then when everybody found out his is an USC alum as well, everyone kinda knew why, lol.

    Hopefully Warner will have a good game, but we really need this win for some offseason momentum and confidence boosts. Then again we won 3 straight last year at the end, and that didn't help too much

    Anyway, it's been fun keeping up with Kurt this year on the side of the Rams games. He may get a shot to start next year from what I am hearing as well. I wish him nothing but the best, the more games he plays will only add to his Hall of Fame resume and increase his chances of getting in. One more Ram we could add to the Hall

  12. #12
    moklerman's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals fans upset with me

    At this point, although I almost hate to admit it, I hope the Rams just stumble the season out. A win will accomplish nothing and as sad as it is, I'd rather see them with a higher pick in the draft so open up as many possibilities as possible. The team is in such turmoil right now that I don't expect them to win and hope the changes all happen soon. I would like to see the core of the team stick together but with the rumors of Bruce not being re-signed and Pace's and Bulger's continured injuries I just don't see the Rams being the one's that I know in the next couple of years. I think the players that are here could win games but ownership, the front office and coaching are holding them back(like usual).

    I would also prefer that the Card's win the last game for Warner's sake. He's auditioning for next year and will have to have a good game to finish strong and even have an opportunity for next year. The more positive numbers he put's up, the more leverage he will have in terms of being given a chance to compete.

    He's actually done something positive that he never did during the GSOT. 7 consecutive games of 2+ TD's. Most of his numbers have been pretty good and doing it with torn ligaments and without Fitzgerald or Boldin both in the lineup most of the time.

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