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  1. #16
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    He fumbled once (or twice not sure) and threw a terrible INT in the red zone.


  2. #17
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Warner is a great fit in N.Y. and is doing a better job there cause he was given the chance! Warner has alot to do with this team doing better and Tiki as well ! He's a grear fit! Warner stands in the pocket longer than any Q.B. i've seen in recent years and just like An R.B. who gets the ball 900 times it's gonna seem like he fumbles all the time but actually it's fewer per carry than anyone else. If you got the balls to stay in the pocket that long you deserve some respect! If that line gets any better watch out. Warner will eat you up! If Warner had eyes in the back of his head , his fumbles would be drastically reduced! :tongue:
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  3. #18
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Well, I for one agree that it is a technique issue that I think he should work on. But he is doing a good job in NY...
    This space for rent...

  4. #19
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Okay, here's a good example.


    The Giants are leading the Vikings 20-0 at halftime.

    Warner's stats:

    7-12, 75 yards, 0 TD, 0 Int., 1 fumble (recovered himself), 4 sacks

    Barber's stats:

    16 carries, 75 yards, 2 TDs; 1 reception, 10 yards (no fumbles).

    Now, which player is deriving a benefit from the other player?

    If your answer is that Barber is deriving a benefit from Warner, please go to Desk No. 2 for your free copy of the CD "Brenda Warner Sings!"

  5. #20
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Over the course of this season, both players are benefiting from each other.
    Today Warner was steady, not spectacular. He made numerous key drive extending passes and lead the Giants to victory. He has proven he can be successful in multiple offensive styles and situations. To discount Warner's contribution to the success of the Giants this year is foolish IMO. My guess is Tiki Barber credits a lot of his success this year to Kurt Warner.

  6. #21
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Not that it really matters a whole lot but Warner had 3 completions to the 1 yard line today that led to short td runs by Cloud and Barber. I think the rb's were probably pretty happy about the easy td's.

    It's a pretty ridiculous argument and I have to say, NY has one of the worst receiving corps in the league right now. Shockey can be great at times but is inconsistent overall. The actual wide receivers though are either young, slow, dinged up, not that good in the first place or some combination of all the above.

    Why defenses aren't stacking up against the run and forcing the Giants to pass to win is beyond me. I'm glad the Giants are winning for Kurt's sake but the passing game there needs lot's of work. Kurt is constantly holding the ball and it's due in large part to receivers just not getting open.

    Kurt has proven to be a rhythm passer and this offense isn't set up for that. A pass here and a pass there doesn't help with timing isssues that the offense is having either. Of course, I can't say that changing it is a good idea either. You don't want to mess with 5-2.

  7. #22
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Not that it really matters a whole lot but Warner had 3 completions to the 1 yard line today that led to short td runs by Cloud and Barber.
    Warner must lead the NFL in completions to the 1 yard line because he's had them in almost every game this year.

  8. #23
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    He also fumbled 3 times (luckily for the Giants, they recovered all 3)... just to be fair.

  9. #24
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    He's winning. Good for Kurt. I do think he learned something sitting down last year. He isn't forcing things like he did in STL. He isn't racking up 350+ yards passing but he also isn't throwing INT's at very critical areas of the game.

  10. #25
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    He also fumbled 3 times (luckily for the Giants, they recovered all 3)... just to be fair.
    I don't think "fair" is your motivation.

    I think Warner's got a lot of karma-balancing going on right now. For every td that doesn't happen (at least 4 completions to the 1 yard line this year, at least 2 td's dropped and 2 called back because of penalty), he's had just as many "should-have-been" interceptions/fumbles. It's a weird year for him for sure.

    Obviously, Coughlin is win/run first and the Giants have one of the worst receiving corps in the league right now so it's getting harder for me to evaluate how Warner's playing. There are some instances where I feel that Warner is holding on to the ball too long, worrying about a turnover rather than just trying to make a play. But I really don't know how he's being instructed to manage the game. It's possible he's under orders to take a sack rather than throw a ball into double/triple coverage. I do know that the receivers aren't getting ANY seperation, don't have any speed (Shockey was used as a deep threat yesterday!) and when they do get a ball thrown there way...well, let's just say Koren Robinson isn't the only guy having problems right now.

    He isn't forcing things like he did in STL.
    I think he's definitely struggling with the transition from "fast and furious" to ...I don't think Coughlin has a catch-phrase for his offense. Actually, I guess Warner was running the Max Q during his tenure, but whatever. I can see that Warner has been playing "tight". He's in a Trent Dilfer role at this point which is unfortunate for him in that people will judge his performance largely in comparison to his 99-01 days.

    I think the Giants need to get a wr or two before Coughlin decides to open it up a little bit. Toomer(slow to start with, now has a nagging hamstring) and Hilliard (seems quick but isn't open all the time) won't be mistaken for Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell any time soon. After those two guys, the rest of the Giants wr's probably wouldn't even make the Rams' scout team.

  11. #26
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    What will be interesting is how long Warner continues to be the starter. Given that the running game is working and the defense is playing well, the Giants may conclude that this is the ideal time to start working in Eli Manning. I doubt they'll do it while the team continues to win, but if they lose a couple, they might make the switch.


    Warner, however, has clearly done enough to show the teams who will be QB shopping next off-season that he's a viable option.

  12. #27
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    What will be interesting is how long Warner continues to be the starter. Given that the running game is working and the defense is playing well, the Giants may conclude that this is the ideal time to start working in Eli Manning. I doubt they'll do it while the team continues to win, but if they lose a couple, they might make the switch.


    Warner, however, has clearly done enough to show the teams who will be QB shopping next off-season that he's a viable option.
    These are good points. I also found myself thinking during the Minnesota game that Manning could become the starter if Warner continues to hold on to the ball too long, throw suspect passes in the red-zone and show a propensity for fumbling. More than once in the game yesterday, Coughlin seemed to be muttering to himself after a Warner miscue.

    I think making a switch would be a bad idea, but Coughlin has made some questionable decisions this year, especially trying to force the issue with Ron Dayne on short yardage red-zone situations instead of utilizing Barber. With that in mind, nothing Coughlin does would surprise me.

  13. #28
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    I realize that the NY fans are probably itching to see what they've got in Manning. "Careful what you wish for" is all I can think of in regards to that. Think of all the 1st round qb's that have been busts. Conversely, think of all the 1st round qb's that have been good/great. Very few.

    I wonder if people really understand what the Giants are all about this year. Is the "start Eli" movement a consensus or just a vocal few? The Giants are all about ball control, minimizing mistakes and running the ball. Coughlin knows that the Giants aren't going to win a shootout so he grinds the ball. The Giants don't have the personnel to run an effective passing game either. The right tackle is a joke. Worse than any of the rt's the Rams have had since 1999.

    The opportunites are very few in the passing game (21 attempts against Minnesota) and now that I think of it, the Giants are very similar to Baltimore in regards to the offense. The TE is the main threat in the passing game, followed by Barber out of the backfield. A qb just isn't going to put up big numbers in that type of situation.

  14. #29
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    Well, putting it that way mokler it sounds like an ideal environment for a rookie to cut his teeth on. I wouldn't mess with winning, but looking at it strictly from a scheme standpoint I think the Giants offense is ideal to play a rookie.

    However, I'd play this QB if the timing was right:


  15. #30
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    Re: Coincidence??? I think not.

    I completely disagree. When there are so few passes attempted there is very little margin for error. A lot of the passing plays have been in passing situations. When the defense knows you're going to pass it just elevates the pressure on the qb. I don't know why I didn't see the corilation before but again, the Giants are very similar to what I think the Ravens are. The Ravens have a better line however as well as a better defense.

    Warner's yards/attempt, completion pct., and interception ratio are all very good this year and I think that's all the Giants require of him at this point. The fumbles are high which can't be argued but some of those do correlate to the fact that Warner's been sacked more than anyone else in the league. And, while a fumble isn't a good thing, it's not an automatic turnover. Warner has 10 fumbles(ouch) but has only lost 2. Along with 2 interceptions that's one of the lowest overall turnover totals in the league.

    Obviously the offense isn't being carried by Warner but that doesn't mean he's failing in his duties. I think he's still battling tendencies to look for a big play, especially with his attempts being a lot lower than in St. Louis, but overall I think he's been opportunistic and consistant. A 90+ qb rating isn't anything to be ashamed of, on top of the fact that the team is 5-2 in the process.

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