Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41
  1. #16
    HUbison's Avatar
    HUbison is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    40
    Posts
    13,550
    Rep Power
    144

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason
    Two words: Jeff George.

    Case closed.

    By the way, you can call me the realistic Seahawk fan.
    Well Mason, first off welcome aboard, always glad to have fans from other teams. Now let's "re-open" this case for Jeff George being the crux of Green's QB resurrection capabilities.

    In the one season that George was Green's starting QB, he managed to muster the following statistical rankings as compared to the 8 seasons in which he played more than half the year:

    Completions - 6th of 8
    Attempts - 7th of 8
    Comp. % - 4th of 8
    Yardage - 5th of 8
    Touchdowns - T3rd of 8

    So actually during that year with Green, George played quite averagely compared to his other healthy seasons. So really, I wouldn't hold up Jeff George as the trophy of Green's rehab. abilities.

    And then on the subject of hate...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mason
    I hate the Cards, almost as much as I do you guys.
    What is it about Hawk fans that they feel they need to hate other teams and fans? I mean you guys have only been in the division a couple of seasons, pace yourself before you have a stroke.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #17
    theodus69's Avatar
    theodus69 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    so.cal.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,202
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    the stroke is classic HU.My concern is that all Warner needs is a spark. the Giants didn't have two sticks to rub together. As for the Cardinal Line? It's an upgrade for Warner. So we shall see.I just think the division has gotten tighter! Now the Lonely whiners can have the cellar all to themselves! but that Mason guy... sure it's not Manson?
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  3. #18
    Mason's Avatar
    Mason is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ocean Park, WA.
    Age
    40
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    I didn't say I hated Rams fans, I hate the Rams.

    I'm not one to jump on all of the flavor of the month love fests. I've been scared ever since AZ hired Green. That's all we needed in this division, another competitive team. Nolan will right the Niners ship (at least defensively, but not this year), the Rams offense reamins competitive and Dennis Green will not stink it up.

    He has amazing WRs, the RB he wanted all along (right after the season ended he told Mort that the guy they were hoping to land was Arrington) a good pass defense already and a lot of pieces in play to make a big improvement in that unit.

    The missing piece IMO was QB, and Dennis Green did what he does best. Found a strong armed vet QB. It's not just Jeff George, look at all of the QBs he had in Minnesota. If this was a one-shot wonder, I'd be inclinded to dismiss my statements too. But it's not, he repeatedly shows the ability to bring in a vet QB and get a helluva lot out of them, and manage to do it in their first seasons with the club.

    We all know what kind of offense Green runs, and it's one that no one in the West wants to see. You have an abundance of youth in the backfield and no decent pass rush outside from Little. We have tremendous players in our secondary, but our lack of pass rush consistently leaves them burned. The Niners aren't just ready to compete at that level yet.

    Factor in AZ' young, but budding defense (look up their stats a season ago, you'll be surprised by how good they were) and it all ads up to a NFC West crown in 2005.
    Come talk some smack. I dare ya. TalkHawks.com

    2004 Seattle Seahawks --- NFC West Champions!
    :tongue:

  4. #19
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    29 Palms, Ca.
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,246
    Rep Power
    127

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    I like your honesty Mason and the fact that you keep things civil. I think you'll be fun to have around. One thing I would like to know is, how did your admiration for Denny Green come about?

  5. #20
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,301
    Rep Power
    153

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason
    But it's not, he repeatedly shows the ability to bring in a vet QB and get a helluva lot out of them, and manage to do it in their first seasons with the club.
    A hell of a lot out of them? He gets one good season and then mediocrity. And we're not talking about scrubs either. We're talking about guys like Randall Cunningham and Warren Moon, two of the better quarterbacks of the last two plus decades. Yeah, Dennis Green is a genious for being able to get those guys to play well. :bored:
    Last edited by Nick; -05-28-2005 at 08:23 PM.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Two
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  6. #21
    rawkhrdr's Avatar
    rawkhrdr is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    Posts
    248
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Why would anyone want to jump on the Cardinals bandwagon. I can't see that happening here. Course I am a diehard seahawks fan, and couldn't like any other team.

    However, Mason is kind of right, Green has turned some mediocre QB's into better than average players. I am not saying great, but I am saying servicable. Although I think that this was more a product of the system than the QB, they recievers that they had in Minne were definitely better than average, and the RB was decent. This year, I think that McCown should be starting in Arizona, because he is the future there and if you aren't going to win the division, you might as well develop your young talent. Screw Warner, he is done anyways.

    To be fair, not all evil robots are killers.

  7. #22
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,301
    Rep Power
    153

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    Green has turned some mediocre QB's into better than average players.
    Which mediocre quarterbacks? He got one good season out of Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham, but they're hardly mediocre, so their performing well is no surprise and no sign of Green's great coaching, IMO. Brad Johnson did well under Green, but he also had good seasons in Washington and Tampa Bay.

    Look, if Green got mediocre players who couldn't do jack elsewhere and was able to make them perform well for him, it'd be one thing. But he couldn't even get consistent performances out of Moon and Cunningham. I still don't see why I'm supposed to be impressed by this.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Two
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  8. #23
    rawkhrdr's Avatar
    rawkhrdr is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    Posts
    248
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Green's eight postseason appearances with the Vikings were accomplished with seven different quarterbacks -- Sean Salisbury (1992), Jim McMahon (1993), Warren Moon (1994), Brad Johnson (1996), Randall Cunningham (1997-98), Jeff George (1999), and Daunte Culpepper (2000).
    A mediocre year by Cunningham in 1998, the guy led the league in passing yards with 3,704 yards...34 TDs and a 106.0 passer rating. I would call that better than mediocre. His team led the conference in passing yards in 1994 with 4,324, the year that Moon was doing the passing. In 1993 he took on over the hill Jim McMahon and turned him loose to the tune of almost 2000 passing yards in 12 games with a better than 60% completion ratio.

    So what if Brad Johnson has had success after he left Minnesota. He was drafted as a rookie by them in 92 and became the QB he is now because of the knowledge thrust upon him by Dennis Green and his staff's. Although you may argue that his SB win was more a product of Chucky Gruden's system, and you could make a great argument there, the fact still remains that Johnson learned how to be an NFL quarterback in Minnesota under the tutelage of Dennis Green.

    To be fair, not all evil robots are killers.

  9. #24
    Mason's Avatar
    Mason is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ocean Park, WA.
    Age
    40
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike
    One thing I would like to know is, how did your admiration for Denny Green come about?
    You remember when the Vikings seemed to be on every national game? I watched a lot of Minny football back then and just becomae enamoured with what Green does.

    Holmgren, and all WCO coaches typically take 3 seasons to get their systems to take, it took Vermeill about 3 years with you and KC to get that system installed. But Green does it again and again with different QBs in one year.

    I find that amazing. Sure, it didn't work out a year ago for Green, but he was at that point teaching a whole team a new system and he didn't even have all of "his guys" in there at that point.

    I also love how he just cuts that players that don't fit into his system, despite talent (see Pete Kendall one year ago). Green's one helluva coach, probably my favorite in the League.
    Come talk some smack. I dare ya. TalkHawks.com

    2004 Seattle Seahawks --- NFC West Champions!
    :tongue:

  10. #25
    ZigZagRam's Avatar
    ZigZagRam is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    St. Louis
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,700
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    I'm still not sold on the Cardinals defense or offensive line. We've seen first-hand what Warner does when he gets pressured slightly. It ain't pretty!

  11. #26
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,301
    Rep Power
    153

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    I would call that better than mediocre.
    Point to where I said Cunningham's 1998 season was mediocre. Please, show me.

    What I said was that Green got one good season out of both Moon and Cunningham, but the rest of their time there was mediocre. Cunningham did well in '98, Moon in '95. But they were both there for three years, and could not duplicate their single season success in either of their other two campaigns. Overall, not impressing me.


    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    In 1993 he took on over the hill Jim McMahon and turned him loose to the tune of almost 2000 passing yards in 12 games with a better than 60% completion ratio.
    McMahon, a QB who has appeared in and won a Super Bowl, completed 60.4% of his passes (only two percent better than his career average). He threw for less than 165 yards per game. He averaged a near career low 5.9 yards per attempt. In 12 games, he threw only nine touchdowns, and was picked off eight times.

    Man, he was unstoppable!! That's hall of fame material right there! What a job by Coach Green!! :bored:


    Quote Originally Posted by rawkhrdr
    the fact still remains that Johnson learned how to be an NFL quarterback in Minnesota under the tutelage of Dennis Green.
    And the fact remains that Johnson had success elsewhere. In fact, he had more success elsewhere than he did with Green.

    Also, the original statement being debated was...

    Apparently you've paid NO attention to what Dennis Green has done with "has-been" Qbs.
    Drafting Johnson and getting him to play well early in his career doesn't really fit the mold of him being a has-been QB.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Two
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  12. #27
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    31
    Posts
    19,301
    Rep Power
    153

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    I'm still not sold on the Cardinals defense or offensive line. We've seen first-hand what Warner does when he gets pressured slightly. It ain't pretty!
    I agree. The Cardinals upgraded the right side of their line by signing Oliver Ross, and Leonard Davis is a solid player on the left side. But I think there are big question marks along the interior of that line. Reggie Wells? Jeremy Bridges? Alex Stepanovich? Maybe it's me, but I'd be worried about an interior pass rush with that line-up, and getting a QB in Warner who isn't exactly Mike Vick out there isn't going to help their situation.

    As for the defense, Rolle will be starting, and while he has talent, I think he's going to need a bit of time to adjust to the NFL rules. Even if Rolle manages to take away the primary option, will David Macklin, Eric Green, and Robert Tate be able to match up with Isaac Bruce, Kevin Curtis, and McDonald/Looker? I seriously doubt it. I think Macklin, while solid, is nothing more than a nickel back, and Green and Tate don't have me worried at all. If the Cardinals benefit from anything, it's having two excellent ends that can get pressure, which always helps the secondary out.
    ClanRam ModCast: Episode Two
    Rams Discussion Right at Your Fingertips!



  13. #28
    theodus69's Avatar
    theodus69 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    so.cal.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,202
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    I'm still not sold on the Cardinals defense or offensive line. We've seen first-hand what Warner does when he gets pressured slightly. It ain't pretty!
    Pressured lightly, huh... Lightly was 99'
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  14. #29
    theodus69's Avatar
    theodus69 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    so.cal.
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,202
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    Any claims these guys want to make about Dennis Green is whatever. But don't let yourselves think that the Cards aren't going to be a problem. They have been problem when they suck and they have made some serious upgrades! As for Green... he starts off big and looks kinda like an oompa loompa when he leaves!
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  15. #30
    moklerman's Avatar
    moklerman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,597
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Could a Warner-led Cardinals team...

    I've never been a big Dennis Green fan as I consider him to be in the same vein as Marty Schottenheimer-just good enough to break your heart. On top of that, his 1998 Randall Cunningham team was one of the biggest dissapointment/choke teams ever in the NFL (15-1, 500+ points and a nice-sized lead in the NFC Championship all choked away).

    That being said, I do think that Warner, given time, is still one of the most accurrate passers in the league. Top 3 in my opinion. His 62.8% on a team populated by receivers like Shockey is fairly impressive. All other things being equal, that alone would greatly improve the Cardinals from 2004. Just by sustaining his numbers from 2004 the Card's will go from 57% to 62% in completions and 74 to 86 in qb rating. I don't see any major steps backward for the Card's so I'm inclined to believe they will easily improve last year's record by 2 games if not more.

    Warner has his problems and I'm still somewhat undecided on whether they are mental or physical in nature. Like most people, I have come to believe that there is probably something wrong with Warner's hand/thumb. I have been hoping that over the last two years that his limited playing time would allow the thumb to recoup but with the limited protection he's received from the Giants and his last game as a Ram it's been hard to figure out exactly what's what.

    I was re-watching the Rams/Seattle game from early 2000, which was before he initially broke his thumb that year against KC and he was having fumbling problems way back then. All that means to me is that there's a possibility that his hand may in fact be relatively sound. Ball security will always be an issue for Warner but it's somewhat different, at least to me, if it's a bad habit or a physical limitation. If his thumb is healthy then it presents the opportunity for him to regain some of his form. If his problems aren't physical in nature then regaining his confidence and rhythm will be the main obstacle in any success he has and Green naming him the starter, having a very good stable of wr's, a familiar system (KC's system rather than the Rams'), etc. all point to a very good chance for success for Warner and the Cardinals' offense.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •