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Thread: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

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    Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case
    Gary Mihoces, USA TODAY Sports 8:31 p.m. EST November 6, 2013



    To the accompaniment of circus-like music, turmoil surrounding the Miami Dolphins escalated Wednesday as players rose to the locker room defense of teammate Richie Incognito and questioned the motives of his alleged harassment victim, fellow offensive lineman Jonathan Martin.

    Martin, a second-year offensive tackle from Stanford, left the team last week amid allegations of bullying and racist and threatening emails from Incognito, a ninth-year offensive guard.

    The Dolphins organization, after initially putting out a statement that nothing of the sort had gone on, ended up suspending Incognito, one of Miami's most popular teammates.

    "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito," quarterback Ryan Tannehill told news reporters Wednesday. "It's tough for us to sit here and hear all that when we have each others' backs."

    That's what other teammates tried to do Wednesday in support of Incognito.

    "What's perceived is that Richie is this psychopath racist, and the reality is Richie was a pretty good teammate," tackle Tyson Clabo told news reporters. "I don't know why (Martin is) doing this. And the only person who knows why is Jonathan Martin."

    Said wide receiver Brian Hartline: "If I'm not mistaken this is the same guy (Martin) that was laughing about this voicemail at one point in time."

    Martin's representatives turned over to the Dolphins and the NFL the voicemail from Incognito to Martin with the racially charged threats. The team has undertaken a review of what happened, as has the NFL, with Commissioner Roger Goodell appointing Ted Wells, a prominent New York-based criminal attorney, to direct an independent inquiry into the team's workplace issues.

    "Mr. Wells will conduct a thorough and objective investigation. He will ensure that we have all the facts so that we can address the matter constructively," Goodell said in a statement.

    Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, who had seemed unaware of any brewing problems, said the team would take "all necessary measures" to fix any problem revealed by the investigations.

    In Green Bay, where Philbin was a former Packers assistant, head coach Mike McCarthy told news reporters: "I trust Joe Philbin with my children. That's the highest compliment I can give a man."

    Martin has yet to talk publicly about the bullying he said he experienced, but his alma mater has come to his defense. "We're proud of Jonathan," is the tweet sent out today by Stanford football.

    "He was a quiet guy. Never said much," Tannehill said of Martin, one of his protectors on the offensive line. "He was the same guy every day. ... Tough to see warning signs."

    Many of the Dolphins players just find it difficult to believe the harassment was so intense that Martin felt he needed to leave.

    "We joke with each other. You can't have thin skin around here," defensive tackle Randy Starks told news reporters. "We're trying to clear Richie's name. He's getting a bad rap."

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Mike and Mike are saying now, Martin played the voicemail a year ago for his teammates and they where all laughing about it.

    Something does not seem right about this.

    "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito,"

    Too many players are saying they where good friends and no one saw anything out of the norm. I think Richie is getting played by Martin and his advisers for whatever reason. Martin is looking for a lawsuit or something here. It also has been reported that the coaches told Richie to toughen him up.

    Again something is not right with Martin story.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Mike and Mike are saying now, Martin played the voicemail a year ago for his teammates and they where all laughing about it.

    Something does not seem right about this.

    "If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he'd say Richie Incognito,"

    Too many players are saying they where good friends and no one saw anything out of the norm. I think Richie is getting played by Martin and his advisers for whatever reason. Martin is looking for a lawsuit or something here. It also has been reported that the coaches told Richie to toughen him up.

    Again something is not right with Martin story.
    I could not disagree with you more.

    I've been involved in many workplace harassment cases, sometimes representing employers and sometimes representing employees.

    What you are seeing now is typical "circling of wagons" behavior. The accuser is blamed and accused of turning a molehill into a mountain. The acts of harassment are described as mere jokes. The accuser is alleged to have willingly participated in the banter. The motives of the accuser are questioned.

    This is harassment case defense 101.

    I don't know exactly what went on in the Dolphins' locker room, but here's what I do know:

    1. Richie Incognito has a history of "anger management" issues, erratic behavior, and exceedingly bad judgment.

    2. Richie Incognito left a voice mail message in which he utilized the "n word" in describing Martin.

    3. Martin, who played for a tough college coach (Harbaugh) and worked his way to the NFL, has walked away and put his own career in jeopardy.

    4. The Dolphins' intitial investigation resulted in Incognito's indefinite suspension.

    These facts cannot be brushed off simply because a few Dolphin players are now spinning the story to make Martin look like an overly-sensitive guy. Anything coming from the Dolphins organization at this point needs to be viewed with suspicion, as their motive is clear: they don't want to be the next Bountygate.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -11-07-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    If I was a Dolphins player, the last thing I'd be doing is commenting on this story.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    If I was a Dolphins player, the last thing I'd be doing is commenting on this story.
    And yet, right or wrong, there appears to be no shortage of players doing just that.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    If I was the lawyer representing the Dolphins, I'd have a "gag order" on the whole organization.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Richie Incognito left a voice mail message in which he utilized the "n word" in describing Martin.
    Using the "n word" seems to be something he has a history of :

    Hall of Fame defensive tackle Warren Sapp said Wednesday that embattled Miami Dolphins offensive linemen Richie Incognito used a racial slur and kicked him during a 2006 game when Sapp was playing for the Oakland Raiders and Incognito for the St. Louis Rams.

    "He kicked me and called me the N-word. I looked at him and said, 'you want me to slap you in the mouth, so they throw me out of the game.' I said I got a better plan. I'm going to assault your quarterback and they're going to cut your a--."

    "It's the trenches. Some guys teeter right on that edge. But Richie? Nobody's ever had a question that Richie was a dirtbag."

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Sapp
    Nobody's ever had a question that Richie was a dirtbag."
    Yet the Dolphins lockerroom, both black and white, are lining up in support of the guy.

    I think any Rams fan knows that RI has his issues. I just hate seeing a lockerroom issue being adjudicated by columnists, reporters, and others that have never set a toe in the lockerroom.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    I don't think that Incognito's behavior was motivated by racism. Rather, I think it was his use of a racist term that elevated this from a dispute between co-workers to a legal matter.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I don't think that Incognito's behavior was motivated by racism. Rather, I think it was his use of a racist term that elevated this from a dispute between co-workers to a legal matter.
    I'll defer the legalities of the situation to the experts like yourself. I just hate that we give power to mere words.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    It is a VERY weird situation and I doubt we have 1/2 the facts.

    What we know is Richie has been released from 3 different teams (Nebraska, Oregon and the Rams) for his behavior. His ability to actually play the game at a high level has never really been questioned IMO. At Oregon he was required to participate in an anger management course as a condition of joining the team and he failed to finish it so they cut him. Two different issues at Oregon. They recognized a need, he agreed and then failed to follow through.

    What's extra weird is that he's been doing great ever since he arrived in Miami. He was given an award by the writers for being so helpful to them and he participated and hosted a bunch of charity fund raisers.

    I don't know and expect we'll never know what's really happening with the guy. Maybe he has AD/HD or is bi-polar or something. It doesn't make sense. From the reports I saw of his time in St. Louis, he seemed exceptionally childish.

    I love how they said yesterday Richie was an honorary black man on the team so it was OKAY to say what he said.

    Jonathan Martin doesn't come off as anywhere near 100% mentally healthy either.
    Last edited by RebelYell; -11-07-2013 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I could not disagree with you more.

    I've been involved in many workplace harassment cases, sometimes representing employers and sometimes representing employees.

    What you are seeing now is typical "circling of wagons" behavior. The accuser is blamed and accused of turning a molehill into a mountain. The acts of harassment are described as mere jokes. The accuser is alleged to have willingly participated in the banter. The motives of the accuser are questioned.

    This is harassment case defense 101.

    I don't know exactly what went on in the Dolphins' locker room, but here's what I do know:

    1. Richie Incognito has a history of "anger management" issues, erratic behavior, and exceedingly bad judgment.

    2. Richie Incognito left a voice mail message in which he utilized the "n word" in describing Martin.

    3. Martin, who played for a tough college coach (Harbaugh) and worked his way to the NFL, has walked away and put his own career in jeopardy.

    4. The Dolphins' intitial investigation resulted in Incognito's indefinite suspension.

    These facts cannot be brushed off simply because a few Dolphin players are now spinning the story to make Martin look like an overly-sensitive guy. Anything coming from the Dolphins organization at this point needs to be viewed with suspicion, as their motive is clear: they don't want to be the next Bountygate.
    All I can say is you are a lawyer and probably a good one. That said something here is not adding up for me.

    Should be interesting to see what they uncover during the investigation and if Martin files a lawsuit, which I think he will.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Using the "n word" seems to be something he has a history of :
    Sadly it is the state of slang at the moment this is accepted to be used widely, I don't like anyone doing it and find it unacceptable even among friends. Bad habits form from that and then slip ups socially or publicly can happen. Even when in social situations people begin to slip up around me I won't be hauled into that type of convo. Been critisized for not partaking and I don't care not my style and find it classless and tasteless no reason to deride someone. Even if I was in a battle for life and death that would not be my choice of comment perhaps a comment on someones mentality or cruelity or being out of line but that is about it. Sad state of affairs that this is so socially accepted in society these days as slang in music if that is what it is called as well as even news reporting. Never in good taste these types of comments, and threatening someones family is a call to war as far as I am concerned not a way to get the best from someone at all! Richie has not matured as much as his rescent documentary tried to portray! His bacon may be cooked over Goodells slow fire for this infraction, very foolish things he said even in jest or to inspire toughness!

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    From the reports I saw of his time in St. Louis, he seemed exceptionally childish.
    Like when he was eating a candy bar on the sideline during a game, and Jim Haslett angrily slapped it out of his hand. That was absolutely hilarious.

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    I love how they said yesterday Richie was an honorary black man on the team so it was OKAY to say what he said.
    I guess they don't care when he says it in a completely different context to opponents on the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Jonathan Martin doesn't come off as anywhere near 100% mentally healthy either.
    That's the way it looks to me as well. Apparently, Martin went to the Dolphins GM to complain about the situation, and the GM told him to punch Incognito in the mouth. Maybe he should have tried that.

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    Re: Dolphins players defend Incognito, question Martin in bullying case

    Looks like both sides are ridiculous in this story. However, lets take a look at Incognitos history:

    Before The Incident


    2002:
    • As a freshman at Nebraska, offensive lineman Richie Incognito reportedly bullies teammate Jack Limbaugh; Limbaugh leaves the team. Incognito is also ejected from a game for fighting.

    2003:
    • Nebraska’s coach suspends Incognito for reasons unknown, then reinstates him.

    2004:
    • Incognito is charged with three counts of assault after a fight at a party. He’s suspended and withdraws from school.

    • Two weeks later, Incognito joins the Oregon football team. One week after that, he’s kicked off the Oregon football team.
    2009:
    • Incognito, having been drafted by the Rams in 2005, is voted the “NFL’s dirtiest player” by The Sporting News in a poll of 99 players.

    • Jonathan Martin makes his first start in college football as a redshirt freshman for the Stanford Cardinal.
    • Incognito is released by the Rams following several incidents, including head-butting and fighting opposing players and a fallout with then-Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo.
    2010:
    • Incognito signs with the Miami Dolphins.

    2011:
    • Incognito is involved in an in-game fight with Oakland Raiders defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who is fined $30,000 for punching Incognito.

    2012:
    • The Miami Dolphins select Martin, who was twice an All-American at Stanford.

    • A woman in Florida files a police report against Incognito, claiming that at a charity golf event, Incognito rubbed his golf club against her private area, and then rubbed his privates against her butt saying, “Let it rain. Let it rain.” After that, Incognito emptied a bottled water on her face.
    2013:
    • Incognito is involved in a scuffle with Houston Texans defensive end Antonio Smith, who later accuses him of playing dirty.

    • On Oct. 30, Jonathan Martin leaves the Dolphins.
    The Aftermath and What We Know Now


    • Initial reports state that Martin left the team due to excessive bullying from teammates and a cafeteria prank gone wrong.
    Nov. 1 (last Friday):
    • ESPN reports that Incognito is being investigated by the NFL Players Association for his role in Martin’s departure.

    • Adam Schefter and Chris Mortensen of ESPN report that Incognito has been the ringleader of bullying against Martin since Martin was a rookie.
    Nov. 2 (last Saturday):
    • The South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that Martin didn’t leave the Dolphins because of bullying by teammates, but because of “other emotional issues.”

    • Martin reportedly shares threatening texts and voicemails he received from Incognito with his parents.
    Nov. 3 (last Sunday):
    • The Dolphins release a statement calling reports of bullying speculation, but say an internal investigation is ongoing.

    • Incognito takes to Twitter to declare his innocence.
    • ESPN reports that Incognito forced Martin to pay $15,000 for a trip to Las Vegas he didn’t participate in.• The Miami Herald reports that Martin and other young players were forced to pay numerous bills for veterans, including a $30,000 team dinner, and that one young player on the team was nearly broke.
    • Martin allegedly hands over the threatening, racist texts and voicemails to the Dolphins and the league.
    Nov. 4 (Monday):
    Deadspin alleges that Incognito’s father has been posting on Dolphins message boards defending his son and attacking Martin.

    • A transcript of a message Incognito allegedly left for Martin in April, in which he calls the younger player a “half-n——r piece of ****,” is made public.
    Nov. 6 (Wednesday):
    • Several dolphins teammates come forward to defend Incognito, including quarterback Ryan Tannehill, who said, “If you asked Jonathan Martin who his best friend is on this team two weeks ago, he’d say Richie Incognito,” as well as teammate Tyson Clabo, who said, “Richie was a pretty good teammate … I don’t know why [Martin is] doing this. And the only person who knows why is Jonathan Martin.”

    • A former Dolphins player says Incognito is considered an “honorary” black man by teammates.
    • A report claims the Miami Dolphins coaches told Incognito to “toughen up” Martin after Martin missed some offseason workouts.
    • Incognito is said to feel “betrayed” that Martin leaked the voicemail in which Incognito called him a “half n——-r.”
    • NFL commissioner Roger Goodell appoints a lawyer named Ted Wells to investigate the situation.
    • Martin checks into a hospital to deal with emotional distress.
    Nov. 7 (Thursday):
    • Former Miami Dolphins offensive tackle Lydon Murtha writes that Incognito took Martin “under his wing” during Martin’s rookie season, and on the issue of the racist voicemail, “Many more worse things were said about others in the [locker] room from all different parties.”

    • NFL Media’s Albert Breer writes on Twitter that Martin voted for Incognito when the Dolphins elected a leadership council.
    Pro Football Talk reports that Martin’s agent contacted Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland about the situation with Incognito on Oct. 28 and that, according tosources, Ireland suggested that Martin physically confront the bullies and punch Incognito.
    • Martin’s agent says Martin had issues with several Dolphins, not just Incognito.
    Sports Illustrated reports that Incognito will soon file a grievance against the team.
    • Martin is said to be “preparing a detailed document for his cooperation with a league investigation into a string of alleged multiple incidents he says led to his emotional distress and exit from the team.”
    edit:credit to buzzfeed btw
    Last edited by RuffRams; -11-07-2013 at 10:36 PM.


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