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  1. #1
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    Don't bet against Warner.....

    Don't bet against Warner reviving his career in Arizona


    BY JEFF GORDON
    Post-Dispatch Online Sports Columnist
    03/07/2005

    Kurt Warner’s gambit paid off.

    The former Rams hero signed with the New York Giants as the interim starter for last season. He agreed to direct that offense on a temporary basis while prized prospect Eli Manning learned the ropes.

    All along, Warner’s role was to mentor the kid. At some point, he knew that Manning would take his job. The Giants traded the farm for the kid, then paid him all the money in the world. His ascension was not a matter of if, but when.

    Kurt also knew the Giants had offensive shortcomings that would make this assignment doubly hard. But this was arguably his only guaranteed shot to re-establish himself in 2004, so he took it.

    Warner accomplished just enough to earn a real opportunity -– to quarterback the Arizona Cardinals in 2005, with no strings attached.

    Warner insists he is ready. He believes he can play for another five or six years. He promises the world that he still has game.

    “I still feel like I have a lot left,” Warner told ESPN Radio. “I wanted to be on the field. I wanted to be in a situation where, for the most part, I controlled my own destiny.”


    He flashed some of his old magic with the Giants last season, particularly earlier in his nine-game stint. The team was far more successful with him at the helm than Manning.

    “Obviously, I hated to be taken out,” Warner said. “Two weeks before I got pulled, we were sitting at 5-2. We were the second-best team in the NFC. Obviously, the next two weeks we didn’t play as well as we would have liked to.”

    But, he added, “In every single game we were competitive, we gave ourselves a chance to win.”

    Warner completed 174 of 277 passes for 2,054 yards last season. He threw six touchdown passes and four interceptions. His passer rating was 86.5. He finished with a 5-4 record as a starter.

    By contrast, Manning won just one game as a starter. He completed 95 of 197 passes for 1,043 yards, six touchdowns and nine interceptions. His passer rating was, ahem, 55.4.

    The benching, Warner said, “was unfortunate at the time. In the long-run, it was beneficial to me.”

    Manning’s dismal play and the Giants’ offensive demise put Warner’s so-so play in context. “People could see how well I was playing, or playing within that role,” he said. “I think my stock actually rose after that time.”

    What if Warner had finished out the season as starter?

    “My stats wouldn’t have been that good,” he said. “We would have finished 8-8, 9-7.”


    Many experts, though, argue that No. 13 is done. They point to his later work with the Giants, when he became tentative in the pocket and absorbed far too many sacks behind that porous offensive line.

    Here is a snippet from the Football Scouts Inc. scouting report on him:

    “Durability and age now also become two glaring weaknesses when evaluating Warner, and his lack of mobility makes it even worse. Warner will take a lot of shots as a pocket passer. He doesn't have a great feel for the pocket collapsing around him. He frequently waits too long to get rid of the ball. Warner will force too many throws trying to make something happen, because he lacks the mobility to create with his legs. He has adequate arm strength, but not elite. Occasionally, he will lock onto a receiver and not read the safety or linebacker correctly, resulting in throws into double coverage.”

    St. Louis loves the Warner debate. The pro-Kurt crowd works the Internet and sports talk radio mediums with great fervor. The pro-Bulger crowd responds in kind, urging Warner’s followers to move on with their lives.

    This debate should become moot come September. Barring an unexpected development, Warner will get to run an offense with interesting potential. Receivers Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald have vast promise.

    Cardinals coach Dennis Green hates to lose and the Gridbirds, like the Rams, get to play in one of the weakest NFL divisions.

    Arizona will run a version of the Air Martz offense, so Warner will feel right at home as he settles in for the quarterback school and the mini-camps. He had to learn the conservative Giants scheme on relatively short notice last summer.

    “It was hard to pick up all those little things in the month and a half before we got into training camp,” he said.

    The Arizona offense features pass routes and protection schemes that are comparable to the Rams’ scheme. “I have a good feel for all that stuff,” Warner said.


    So there will be no excuses this season. Warner will get his chance to excel again. He will operate in the offense he starred in. He will have big, capable wide receivers that go get the ball. He will play for a coach willing to do whatever it takes to build a winner.

    There is no millionaire prospect waiting to replace him; there is only so-so incumbent Josh McCown. Warner will get every opportunity to grab the ring again. Arizona is starving for a winner and the Cardinals are hungry for leadership.

    “It gives you an opportunity to go to a team where expectations haven’t been very high,” Warner said. “Nobody expects them to do much, It gives you a chance a turn it around.

    “It was neat to be a part of a city, an organization that was able to do that. I look forward to trying to do that again in Arizona.”

    Don’t be shocked if he makes it happen.

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    I would expect a huge cheer from Ram fans when he is announced in the Ed.

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sbramfan
    I would expect a huge cheer from Ram fans when he is announced in the Ed.
    On a poll over at the Post-Dispatch website, 64% of the respondents said that's exactly what they will do.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    If we tighten up the offensive line wich I think we will.This matchup is gonna be fun to watch.I still think Bulger will out perform Warner,but not by much.Watch kurt give up some interceptions that will decide the game.Its gonna be a great shootout in the wild wild west.

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    The benching, Warner said, “was unfortunate at the time. In the long-run, it was beneficial to me.”

    Manning’s dismal play and the Giants’ offensive demise put Warner’s so-so play in context. “People could see how well I was playing, or playing within that role,” he said. “I think my stock actually rose after that time.”
    I couldn't agree more with the principle being said here - Warner benefitted from Coughlin pulling him when he did for one simple reason. In the games Warner played, his opponents' average winning percentage was .456 (73-87). For Manning, it was .632 (81-47).

    In that respect, Warner lucked out by not having to play during the harder part of the schedule. Perhaps he could have done well against the more difficult teams later on down the stretch - I'm not trying to imply he couldn't have - but by not keeping him in there, Coughlin allowed Warner's 2004 campaign to be remembered as a very solid effort that proved a number of people wrong about Warner's status.

    Had he exposed him to the more difficult section of the schedule, the story might have been different.

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    I couldn't agree more with the principle being said here - Warner benefitted from Coughlin pulling him when he did for one simple reason. In the games Warner played, his opponents' average winning percentage was .456 (73-87). For Manning, it was .632 (81-47).

    In that respect, Warner lucked out by not having to play during the harder part of the schedule. Perhaps he could have done well against the more difficult teams later on down the stretch - I'm not trying to imply he couldn't have - but by not keeping him in there, Coughlin allowed Warner's 2004 campaign to be remembered as a very solid effort that proved a number of people wrong about Warner's status.

    Had he exposed him to the more difficult section of the schedule, the story might have been different.
    C'mon...freaking eh man...any excuse to take a dig at Warner...you veil it thinnly with the "Oh I'm glad he did what he did for us" but it doesn't hide your true contempt for the guy. I just don't get it. Didn't your momma ever teach ya that if you didn't have anything nice to say about someone then it's better to not say anything at all...jeez :confused:

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadesofgrey
    C'mon...freaking eh man...any excuse to take a dig at Warner...you veil it thinnly with the "Oh I'm glad he did what he did for us" but it doesn't hide your true contempt for the guy. I just don't get it. Didn't your momma ever teach ya that if you didn't have anything nice to say about someone then it's better to not say anything at all...jeez :confused:
    How is it a dig at Warner to state a FACT - that he played against weaker competition that Eli Manning did? If you think I have any kind of contempt for Kurt Warner, you're mistaken. But since this appears to be the standard response for those who have the gull to actually say something that isn't full-on praising Kurt, I guess it's something I should just deal with.

    It's hilarious how Kurt himself admits he wouldn't have done as well, and then when I agree with him and suggest that maybe the benching worked out in his favor because of that, I'm the one taking a dig at him. HILARIOUS!

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Face it Nick. Some people will always assume that if you criticize Kurt Warner, that you secretly despise him. Its almost as if they think we will suddenly confess to some secret hatred of Kurt which I hate him he's the devil incarnate he eats live children and laughs at their parents I hate him I hate him I hate himis utterly absurd.

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Hmmm... Where is the fact here? The fact that I see is that you are making an assumption that they still would have lost if KW was the QB. If he was the starter, not the kid, that second half win - loss record may have been different. Not saying it would, but it could. Since I don't know, I won't make any definite statements or assumptions.
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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho
    This matchup is gonna be fun to watch. I still think Bulger will out perform Warner,but not by much.
    I think this will be intruiging also. But I am also fearful. I'm afraid sMartz will attempt to show that keeping MB was the right decision and do this by piling up MB's stats in comparison to KW's during these two games - which may not be the best game plan at the time to secure a victory. It will be interesting dynamics ...

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    well it seems the division of the board is building up to the 2 big games next year! This is great. I love it!!!!!!!!
    Warner isn't gonna catch a break unless he kills us. But then again he is not a Ram , he's a red pecker bird! :redface:
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    Hmmm... Where is the fact here? The fact that I see is that you are making an assumption that they still would have lost if KW was the QB.
    "Perhaps he could have done well against the more difficult teams later on down the stretch - I'm not trying to imply he couldn't have."

    You're right. I'm totally making definite statements and assumptions that the Giants would have lost if KW was the quarterback at that time. :bored:

    As for the fact, the fact is that Warner's opposition in 2004 had a winning percentage of .456 while Manning's was .632 - Manning faced tougher competition. That's a fact. If you're having trouble seeing it, I can increase the size of the font or something. Or I can link you to the Standings section on ESPN.com or NFL.com, where these win-loss records are recorded. Either way, let me know.

    Just for fun though, let's assume Warner remained the starter and won every remaining game on the schedule. By taking one win away from each team Manning played and adding one loss, you get a win percentage of .536 for the teams Manning faced, which is still significantly higher (almost a full 0.1 higher) than Warner's competition. So had Warner started and won the remaining number of games, the Giants would be in the playoffs at 12-4, but the fact would remain that, because of the winning percentage of the second-half opposition, even if it went down from the one extra loss per team, it still would be no where near the percentage Warner faced in the first half of the season.
    Last edited by Nick; -03-10-2005 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    The division of the board has nothing to do with Warner or anyone else, it's just that that topic seems to bring it to a head. The actual division is about people who want to discuss a topic, any topic be it Warner or anything else, and those that feel the need to belittle and insult people that have a different opinion than they do. There's a never ending stream of witless humor (or lame attempts at humor is more like it) and antagonization whose sole purpose is to irritate and get under the skin of some people simply because they might feel strongly about a topic.

    It's quite amusing to watch people try to overcome their inferiority complex by constantly trying to put others down.
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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    The division of the board has nothing to do with Warner or anyone else, it's just that that topic seems to bring it to a head. The actual division is about people who want to discuss a topic, any topic be it Warner or anything else, and those that feel the need to belittle and insult people that have a different opinion than they do. There's a never ending stream of witless humor (or lame attempts at humor is more like it) and antagonization whose sole purpose is to irritate and get under the skin of some people simply because they might feel strongly about a topic.

    It's quite amusing to watch people try to overcome their inferiority complex by constantly trying to put others down.
    Its good you've finally decided to come clean, Yodude. I agree that if you stopped belittling and insulting people by referring to their humor as "witless" or labeling them as having an "inferiority complex," this board would be a better place. Hopefully, now that you realize your shortcomings and how they are negatively impacting the board, you'll find a way to improve.

    I wish you luck.

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    Re: Don't bet against Warner.....

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    How is it a dig at Warner to state a FACT - that he played against weaker competition that Eli Manning did? If you think I have any kind of contempt for Kurt Warner, you're mistaken. But since this appears to be the standard response for those who have the gull to actually say something that isn't full-on praising Kurt, I guess it's something I should just deal with.

    It's hilarious how Kurt himself admits he wouldn't have done as well, and then when I agree with him and suggest that maybe the benching worked out in his favor because of that, I'm the one taking a dig at him. HILARIOUS!
    Are you in the same Law practice as AV...now we're into semantics. I read this forum quite a bit and post a little. I've been reading your posts in regard to Warner for quite some time...To me they all seem to have a negative vibe to them under the surface...Why would you go to the trouble to look up this stuff??? What's the motivation? What's the whole point of trying to prove that he got lucky by playing an easier schedule? Hell we could say the same thing about our Rams' 2004 season... :confused:

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