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Thread: Eli's Decision

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    It was pretty evident that KW was going to beat the 'cons and beagles all by himself too.
    Another total lack of understanding at it's best.

    1. Have the Giants established the fact that the qb wasn't the problem with thier offense?
    2. Was Warner putting up better numbers than Eli is now (85 rating, 62% completion vs. 44 rating vs. 41% completion)
    3. Would you do better with a qb that's got more experience, has practiced with the first team longer and is putting up better numbers or not?

    Of course, some probably think that putting in Hensen was a good idea for the Cowboys' chances of winning. In this league of "win now" you play the best player right now so you have a chance to win. Everyone thought Eli was going to be better and spark the offense but they were wrong. Every week the offense is worse and Eli's putting up ridiculously bad numbers. It was a premature, bad move to remove the vet(in this case Warner).

    I don't even think it's Coughlin's idea. I think Accorsi's got such a boner for Eli that he couldn't wait to see him and forced Coughlin to make the switch.


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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by WisRamsFan
    The main reason Eli didn't want to go to San Diego is because his father and he thought it was a dead-end situation. ... I for one am glad it's happening because I was disgusted with Eli and his father's actions before the draft.
    I wonder if Archie took steriods in his youth? One son is afflicted with a long neck and another looks as if his face has been punched in. It makes me wonder about better life through chemicals. Maybe if I had a choice, I'd try manipulating genetics first. There is unfolding irony in the Manning story.

    Let's see what the story is about steriods today? Do you take them and set records like Bonds or do you take them and get cancer like Giambi? It may be possible to use them as clinical trials for bio-chemistry experiments. No point in testing the drugs on animals when informed volunteers have assumed the risks. Oops. Sorry. The discussion is about how severely to punish them isn't it?

    I wonder who is being vindicated with SD's success? The FO for caving in to a kid's demands? The fans for tolerating pastel blues? Brees for being the good trooper in dismissing the rookie QBs?

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Another total lack of understanding at it's best.

    1. Have the Giants established the fact that the qb wasn't the problem with thier offense?
    2. Was Warner putting up better numbers than Eli is now (85 rating, 62% completion vs. 44 rating vs. 41% completion)
    3. Would you do better with a qb that's got more experience, has practiced with the first team longer and is putting up better numbers or not?

    Of course, some probably think that putting in Hensen was a good idea for the Cowboys' chances of winning. In this league of "win now" you play the best player right now so you have a chance to win. Everyone thought Eli was going to be better and spark the offense but they were wrong. Every week the offense is worse and Eli's putting up ridiculously bad numbers. It was a premature, bad move to remove the vet(in this case Warner).

    I don't even think it's Coughlin's idea. I think Accorsi's got such a boner for Eli that he couldn't wait to see him and forced Coughlin to make the switch.
    No misunderstanding here. Whether it is Accorsi's problem with Viagra or the pressure to stay in the wildcard race is anyone's guess. If you actually read what I stated w/o letting your ego for KW dictate or interfere with your thought process, KW's recent play going into those two games with atl and phi was not exactly acceptable for a skilled veteran with ol issues or not. The atl defense is super quick and and KW does not have the decent protection and is basically a sitting duck-see sacks and fumbles vs the lions and cards-and maybe it was a time for a change-maybe the timing was bad-but imho-I don't see it that way,for all the draft day shenanigans aside, Eli played reasonably well and almost stole a victory for his team vs. a tough team.

    Judging by the way kurt, eli and most recently favre, fared, starting Eli or KW or even Tom Brady or Peyton, no one with that offense and its talent was going to make it a competition with the eagles.

    Pathetic as it sounds there a still in it and they should give it back to KW, although KW may want to finish the season at 5-4 vs. possibly 5-8 for offseason marketing purposes.

    At least KW was not injured in those games esp. after he got knocked around pretty good in game/week 1 and let Eli get his welcome to the NFL hit as time expired.

    With his health intact, he may have benefitted by not playing in those games, he will and should have a chance to start. He still looks pretty limited in what he can do though as he still refuses to throw the ball away or holds it too long. Diminishing returns for diminishing skills and surrounded by below average talent and skill and in TC's opinion it was time for a change. Since they lost both those games only helped my team's cause whether it was eli or kurt it did not matter.

    1. Fumbles and sacks lead to losses and illustrates poor performance by all components of the o-unit.

    2. Do you really believe kurt was going to lead this team to victories vs the 'cons and beagles? KW's numbers would have dropped dramatically too. Moot at best.

    3. "In this league of "win now" you play the best player right now so you have a chance to win", is it not the reason you despise bulger and martz as they were winning with bulger and not KW?-see your postings from the last year and half as I do not want to debate that at this time-I guess TC thought Eli can learn only so much watching KW fumble, get sacked, and hit the deck (or anyone in that situation) being pressured by their opponent's pass rush that it was time to give eli a shot as he (TC) thinks that was his team's best chance for a competitive game vs atl and phi as he is a heeluva a lot more mobil. I am sure KW is the better player although his and the giant's recent performances were poor and it was TC's call.

    It almost worked vs atl so that may be the reason why you are living in Oildale and I am living in New Orleans being armchair qb's and not working for a nfl team.

    The only decent team that KW beat was the Vikings w/o Moss and a few other critical componets injured so ... for those two games it may have been a gamble but KW playing was no guarantee that he would have been the better player based on his past two performances.

    Didn't you want to pull Bulger last year to see if it would create a spark or lift the team's morale?

    Again, your tunnel vision for KW prevents you from seeing or understanding the whole picture.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    KW's recent play going into those two games with atl and phi was not exactly acceptable for a skilled veteran with ol issues or not.
    He had one bad game(against Chicago). Against Arizona he didn't have any turnovers, threw a td and had his second best game of the year. By what guage are you measuring him not producing? You have to look at relative terms and situations and doing that I think Warner was doing well. Not great. Not fantastic. But by far, better than a rookie who hasn't been taking any snaps with the first string offense.

    2. Do you really believe kurt was going to lead this team to victories vs the 'cons and beagles? KW's numbers would have dropped dramatically too. Moot at best.
    And that's really the big picture isn't it? I say: "Warner would have given them a better chance" and it's interpreted as they would have won with Kurt.

    "In this league of "win now" you play the best player right now so you have a chance to win", is it not the reason you despise bulger and martz as they were winning with bulger and not KW?-
    Again, you're misquoting. From what you're saying, you think I think it would have been better to lose with Warner than win with Bulger. That's not the case at all. I simply didn't feel that Warner was the problem with the offense's struggles as well as disagreeing with the uncerimonias way he was released. I still feel that Warner would have played just as well as Bulger on equal terms. I've illustrated the discrepencies many times in the playcalling between Warner and Bulger in the lineup but those things don't matter to some.
    Again, your tunnel vision for KW prevents you from seeing or understanding the whole picture.
    I really don't see where you think I'm being so biased or not objective. I think it's perfectly realistic to think that Warner, especially based on what's happened since Eli's been in, would have given the Giants a better chance to win. Just the difference in completion pct. would have given the Giants a better chance.

    I'm not the one who's sarcastically discounting the move by saying "It was pretty evident that KW was going to beat the 'cons and beagles all by himself too. "

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Hey Mok...you should know by now not to confuse the issue with facts and common sense.
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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Hey Mok...you should know by now not to confuse the issue with facts and common sense.
    Look who's talking .... You two are the faux svengalli's in trying to distort facts that support why your idol KW is still awesome. Reality bites and your common sense has always been on vacation when it comes to your beloved QB.

    Maybe the performance from the field level speaks volumes of diminishing returns vs. mostly short passes and the stats you guys love so much.

    I guess that he was pretty ineffective vs. PHi in the first game as he left the game trailing 31-10 and no tds with only 12.7 yds/att. Maybe that was a factor as Barber was pretty useless until the last three minutes with a 78 yd run w/KW on the bench.

    He was ineffective in three out of his last four games, sacked a bunch, and facing better defenses than the ones that tore his ol and him up so why not a change? Eli is quicker and came close vs. atl and philly tears everybody up so at the worst KW is healthy and ready to compete the rest of the season and or he can concentrate preparing for next season instead of rehabing which may have been the case at the rate he was and has been sacked thruout his career.

    Stats are always in your favor even when he lost all 2002 so you can distort them all you want as winning is everything in the NFL. Stats do favor Kurt over Eli but Kurt played all the lame duck teams ... sounds familiar to your KW vs. MB theories in 2002 ... but Eli played the best two teams in the conference ... so see your 2002 theory in the above referenced comparison.

    To you guys timing and talent do not mean a thing if KW is on the scene. KW was great but his time has passed as far as his superiority is concerned. KW was given a chance and I believe TC said that Eli would play at sometime during this season and he benched Kurt with not much commotion-sound familiar?

    Maybe there were some fans like yourselves after Bulger lost to the Cards and this year with KW losing to the Cards-calling for TC to start Eli-sound familiar? Afterall the Giants were up 14-3 just before the half, but KW yds/att was a dismal 6.2 and he was sacked 6 times.

    The timing was/is suspect of the benching but maybe TC saw something from his view and game film and was ready to shake things up since they were in a slump.

    Perhaps you guys should be jumping for joy as that decision may have helped the RAMS chances to qualify for the playoffs.

    Happy Holidays.
    Last edited by fearlessone; -12-07-2004 at 03:29 PM.
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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Say what you want about Warner, but the fact is he was effective with a horrible line and recievers who's ineptitude is only surpassed by those in Seattle. He helped a team nobody gave a chance in hell of accomplishing anything to a winning record and a chance at the playoffs. When Coughlin made the decision to make a playoff run with an untested rookie, he threw the season away, plain and simple.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    The bottom line here is that the Giants invested a ton to get Eli and there was no way that he was going to sit on the bench all year unless Kurt was playing like it was 1999 (cue Prince song here).


    The Giants probably would have had a better chance to win in recent weeks with Kurt at the helm, but the Giants decided to start developing Eli now. Certainly, given the state of the NFC, one could argue that they should have stuck with Kurt the way Dallas has (other than one game) stuck with Vinnie.

    It is funny, though, that Eli shunned San Diego, which is now on the way to a division championship. But, then again, had he stayed there, he'd probably be Drew Brees' understudy much as Rivers is now.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    The Giants probably would have had a better chance to win in recent weeks with Kurt at the helm, but the Giants decided to start developing Eli now.
    Sort of sums it all up doesn't it? I guess Avenger is a Warner fanatic like me now.

    You two are the faux svengalli's in trying to distort facts that support why your idol KW is still awesome
    Show me anywhere I've tried to say Warner is awesome right now.

    He was ineffective in three out of his last four games, sacked a bunch, and facing better defenses than the ones that tore his ol and him up so why not a change?
    Well, for the milliionth time, because it has been very clearly illustrated that the qb position wasn't the problem of the Giants offense. More than one Giants player was even quoted saying that Kurt wasn't the problem and he is more of a scapegoat than anything else.

    Maybe there were some fans like yourselves after Bulger lost to the Cards and this year with KW losing to the Cards
    Are you referring to the 4 interception game by Bulger last year? If you're comparing that to a 1 td, no interception game for Warner this year then I'm not sure how you're comparing the two. Were they both losses? Yes. But the two qb's didn't put up similar stats.

    The only fact twisting that I see is by you. You're exaggerating how I think Warner is playing, misquoting why I thought he should have stayed the starter in New York and your apparent disregard of any information that I use to support my opinions makes me think you have just as much, or more, hatred for Warner as I am a fan of his.

    If you want to debate the validity of my stat's and how they apply to my position that's just dandy. I enjoy B.S.'ing about football. But I don't see how you can justify telling me that my judgement is clouded when I'm scouring multiple sources of information and watching the games to come up with my opinions.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    Are you referring to the 4 interception game by Bulger last year? If you're comparing that to a 1 td, no interception game for Warner this year then I'm not sure how you're comparing the two. Were they both losses? Yes.
    Actually, the Rams won that game 30-27 in OT. And Bulger had five turnovers total - four INTs and a lost fumble. Just thought I'd clarify.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    The real question is, if the Giants stayed with Warner all year, would they make the playoffs? The answer is... maybe, but only because the NFC is so down this year.


    Clearly, the team (and I wonder if this was imposed on Coughlin) decided that going for the playoffs this year was less important than getting their "future franchise QB's" feet wet.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    The real question is, if the Giants stayed with Warner all year, would they make the playoffs? The answer is... maybe, but only because the NFC is so down this year.


    Clearly, the team (and I wonder if this was imposed on Coughlin) decided that going for the playoffs this year was less important than getting their "future franchise QB's" feet wet.
    I heard an interview with Jerry Jones the other day where he said that every team should have a healthy contrast between the Head Coach's desire to win now and the FO's desire to win in the future. This sounds like the FO decided that the possibility of several future successes means more than their current playoff run.
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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Actually, the Rams won that game 30-27 in OT. And Bulger had five turnovers total - four INTs and a lost fumble. Just thought I'd clarify.
    You're right Nick, that was a win. When did the Rams lose to the Cardinals? If it was this year then I don't understand the reference to people wanting Bulger pulled after his bad performance. He couldn't possible be pulled this year. Last year, after the 4 int game, I thought Warner deserved a chance to earn his job back so I assumed that's what the reference was about.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    The last time the Rams lost to the Arizona Cardinals was 1998. Since the Cardinals have joined the NFC West, they've never beaten the Rams.

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    Re: Eli's Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessone
    You two are the faux svengalli's
    Faux Svengali my ass...I'm the real thing....in fact...behold, as I make your common sense, as well as your ability to write a coherent sentence vanish into thin air.....poof!

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessone
    your idol KW
    No, I don't idolize football players, but he is my all-time favorite Ram, I'm sorry if you have a problem with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by fearlessone
    The timing was/is suspect of the benching but maybe TC saw something from his view and game film and was ready to shake things up since they were in a slump.
    For the record, I've not written a single word regarding my opinion on Warner's benching and Eli's promotion. Actually, I've not posted anything in any thread regarding Warner in quite a while...so I'm not quite sure where you're coming from...but that's Ok since I'm quite sure you have no idea where you're coming from either.
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