FAIR WARNING: This is a Kurt Warner thread

*moklerman* · #1 (**permalink**) -07-03-2008

Something I was talking about in a different thread got me curious about something else. I talked a little, on some forum which I forget, that Warner was playing like his GSOT self now that he had the gloves. This idea was not met warmly but I hadn't really looked at the final numbers for 2007.

Also, the last few years I've come to appreciate some of the finer nuances of looking at stat's from all the online arguments that I've put myself in. In this case, a QB's numbers can be deceiving. TD totals and INT totals can be misleading because they often aren't linked to the attempts it took to get them. This may seem obvious but it really is glossed over or just plain overlooked. I've come to the opinion that it's a much better indicator of evaluating a QB than the actual totals in a lot of cases.

Anyway, here are the numbers:

1999 - 41td/13int 8.2% 2.6%
2000 - 21td/18int 6.1% 5.2%
2001 - 36td/22int 6.6% 4.0%

2007 - 27td/17int 6.0% 3.8%
(and, because this is MY thread

his TD% should have been 6.4% if not for Rattay vulturing goal line attempts)

Either way though, his 2007 numbers are very comparable to the last two GSOT years.

*r8rh8rmike* · #2 (**permalink**) -07-03-2008

No doubt Warner looked very sharp last year with the gloves. It will be interesting to see if he beats out Leinart for the starting job in 2008.

*keith m. klink* · #3 (**permalink**) -07-03-2008

Damn it ! let's bring back KURT to backup BULGER , it will be fun again .

**laram0** · #4 (**permalink**) -07-03-2008

I must say no matter how redundant or how many times we beat this deadhorse I will always be interested in KURT WARNER. Whether it be reading new or old threads here at the CLAN or following his progress with another team.

Long live the QB that lead us to our first and only SUPERBOWL win!:r

*Striped_Kramer* · #5 (**permalink**) -07-03-2008

I think it says a whole helluva lot about the guy that Wiz seems intent on sticking with him over the Golden Boy. Personally, I've always enjoyed watching the man play, even though it's been painful - seeing as how the Niners had never beaten him up until that OT win over the 'Cards last year.

*moklerman* · #6 (**permalink**) -08-03-2008

Well, if not for the freaking kicker missing a chip shot fg, Warner's dominance over the 4 9 ers would be in tact. How does one of the highest paid kickers in the league miss a 29 yarder?

*ramsanddodgers* · #7 (**permalink**) -08-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

Well, if not for the freaking kicker missing a chip shot fg, Warner's dominance over the 4 9 ers would be in tact. How does one of the highest paid kickers in the league miss a 29 yarder?

Only reason I can think of is because the game is played on the field and not on paper.

Oops, I forgot about the farcical football leagues... :x IMHO, of course. (that IS what FFL stands for? >8))

*Keenum* · #8 (**permalink**) -08-03-2008

Oh boy, a Warner topic! lol

No doubt he was sharp for most of last year (once again though, he struggle against the Bucs. Even in his prime here he was never really that great agains them).
Any of you see that Bengals game? That drive when he had the roll out throw to Fitz, then the underhand pass, the LEFT HANDED pass (with the bad elbow!), and then a perfect TD toss to Fitzgerald was one of the best drives I've seen in years. The old dude still has it.
Hopefully he can still see playing time (though hopefully not against us! lol) and build on his numbers. He will get in the Hall of Fame as of now, but it will not be first ballot, and it will take several years. The more he plays, the quicker he will get in, I believe.

*renrawtruk* · #9 (**permalink**) -16-03-2008

At this point, I'm back to "we shouldn't have got rid of KW".

He's still got it. He did need a couple years to let the hand heal, and the gloves are apparently a big help.

What I miss is the intagibles, like that Bengals game. Warner finds a way to get things done. He sees the big picture. He actually "leads" the offense.

I feel like Bulger is given a task..."look off Holt, then look back and throw the ball to Holt, if he's not there, look for the dump off to Jackson." And he is able to complete the task 60% of the time. But when the play breaks down, the play is over.

Warner has a presence on the field that "Dull-ger" just doesn't have. It's really hard to have a favorite team without a fired up leader.

We should have let this guy finish out like Favre, who had a few terrible seasons with a bad hand, then had at least one more run at it after that. I GUARANTEE you we would have had least ONE more good run at it with KW. I really doubt we ever will with MB.

**txramsfan** · #10 (**permalink**) -17-03-2008

There's a reason why Warner is having some success in Arizona, it's because of the talented WR's. When Warner went to NY and had to play those WR's his numbers fell quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'll always be grateful for that terrific stint he had with the Rams, but let's be honest he really doesn't make everyone else better he just sort of fits in. Farve, Marino, those types...they made others better.

*moklerman* · #11 (**permalink**) -17-03-2008

C'mon Tex, that's a chicken/egg argument. Favre looked like crap when he didn't have any weapons a couple of years ago and looked like a new man when he got all that help last year. Same thing with Warner in NY. They had absolutely nothing at WR and skillet hands Shockey at TE.

In '07, Warner actually had an o-line that could pass block but he rarely had Boldin and Fitzgerald on the field together or healthy, was in a new system, didn't get starter rep's in training camp and played most of the season with torn ligaments in his left elbow.

Now I'm not saying he compares to Marino but just because he isn't up there with the greatest of all time doesn't mean his numbers last year are because of Boldin and Fitz. He's had Boldin and Fitz the previous two years and didn't put up such numbers. Pass protection would be a more likely cause.

**txramsfan** · #12 (**permalink**) -17-03-2008

ok.....I hear ya.....

**AvengerRam** · #13 (**permalink**) -20-03-2008

The Cardinals have already named Matt Leinart as their starting QB for 2008. So, I guess that either:

1. The Cards don't care that Warner performed on par with a year (2001) when he was the NFL MVP because they want to promote Leinart so badly; or

2. Your stats are skewed to support your theory and, in fact, Warner's performance last year was not at all comparable to his performance in 2000-2001.

*moklerman* · #14 (**permalink**) -20-03-2008

Quote:

The Cardinals have already named Matt Leinart as their starting QB for 2008. So, I guess that either:

It isn't quite as clearcut as that. Whisenhunt has said that he doesn't believe a starter should lose his job to injury so Leinart will go into camp as the starter, but he has also said that the best player will play and the guy slingin' it the best will be the starter.

All that being said, I think it's going to be hard for Warner to win the job. Unless Leinart completely blows a gasket I think he will start the season as the starter.

As far as skewing the numbers, it's too bad for Warner's sake that Boldin and Fitz can't stay as healthy as Holt and Bruce did from '99 - '01. KW's numbers were pretty good last year overall but when Fitz and Boldin were both in the lineup his numbers were that much better.

206/325 63.4% 2,560 7.9 ypa 20 td(6.2%) 9 int(2.8%) 96.7 rating

And that's not even a "healthy" tandem for most of those games. Boldin struggled all year long with toe and hip injuries and wasn't nearly 100%. Fitz had lesser issues but he was still hampered. They really are dynamic and it would be interesting to see what they could do over the course of year with a decent o-line and running game to back them up. Leinart may be able to keep them rolling in '08 if he does indeed retain the job but I'd like to see Warner get a fair shot at it. I know he had to win over his teammates by playing with torn ligaments.

*NotVeryOriginal* · #15 (**permalink**) -22-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrawtruk

At this point, I'm back to "we shouldn't have got rid of KW".

He's still got it. He did need a couple years to let the hand heal, and the gloves are apparently a big help.

What I miss is the intagibles, like that Bengals game. Warner finds a way to get things done. He sees the big picture. He actually "leads" the offense.

I feel like Bulger is given a task..."look off Holt, then look back and throw the ball to Holt, if he's not there, look for the dump off to Jackson." And he is able to complete the task 60% of the time. But when the play breaks down, the play is over.

Warner has a presence on the field that "Dull-ger" just doesn't have. It's really hard to have a favorite team without a fired up leader.

We should have let this guy finish out like Favre, who had a few terrible seasons with a bad hand, then had at least one more run at it after that. I GUARANTEE you we would have had least ONE more good run at it with KW. I really doubt we ever will with MB.

QFT, I was saying this back when Warner first came back from injury and there was debate over who would start, him or Bulger. Bulger will manage a game which is more than can be said for a fair few starting QBs, but he doesnt have that magic that Warner did.