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  1. #61
    sbramfan Guest

    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    I think this week vs. Seattle is crucial. This issue will become HUGE if the Rams lose and basically fall out of contention, or it will dimish (somewhat) if they win...

    It's all about the W's, so Bulger had better get the dub this week.


  2. #62
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    My point is this. If the Rams and Martz were willing to change the offense from the "full throttle, scrape Warner up, he'll be okay" version that they were running to the "Don't let them touch him" version they ran with Marc, why weren't they willing to do it for KW?
    I'm not the front office or Martz, so I can't give you anything more than a guess. But I would assume it's because Martz and the Rams knew what Warner could do, or at least thought they did. They'd watched him do it for three seasons. The guy could see these multi-receiver formations and read coverages in a split second. The Rams dared teams to blitz them because they knew Warner would be able to see the exposed area of the defense and exploit it.

    So I would imagine they counted on him being able to do that when he returned, and it didn't work. He sat in the pocket, held the ball too long, danced around while trying to find an open receiver, fumbled for no apparent reason at times. He wasn't playing like the same guy, and I don't think it's the coach's job to completely alter the offense for a player in this situation. Especially not when they have a young guy on the bench who can run a slightly drawn back version of what they're trying to do at that time anyways.


    Quote Originally Posted by thoey
    The better he does in NY, the more the stink wafts out of the offices at 1 Rams Parkway or what ever the hell the address of the Rams office is.
    Again, I disagree, because you continue to assert that the Rams could have been running a NY Giants offense for KW here in St. Louis. This team isn't built for that offense, nor would Martz want or care to run it. It would be a waste of talent. Kurt's success in NY means little to this front office, because Kurt wasn't just released because he couldn't play any more. If he couldn't play anymore, why was there talk about him staying if he could give some bonus money back?

    It just doesn't add up, and the fact that people continue to throw that around is getting laughable. Nevermind the $9+ million he counted against the cap, or the media problems, or the fact that the team themselves weren't behind him. There were other clear-cut reasons as to why Kurt was released, but now that he's gone to New York and found success in a very strict and less demanding offense, all anyone wants to talk about is how people were wrong about his not being able to play anymore. Well, that's not exactly the only thing everyone was saying.
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  3. #63
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    I will grant you that KW didn't do anything to help his own self out. But I think the main contention for him was that even if he gave money back, Martz (and possibly most of the team) wanted to stick with MB, with KW as the back up.

    I guess it is as hard to give up that starting role as it is to give up on a sports legend. Luckily, neither had to be given up, and the Rams still ended up with a viable starting QB.

    I still think KW would run this offense better than MB...

    :tongue:

    Have a good weekend... GO RAMS!!!
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  4. #64
    afrightertoo Guest

    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    ... you continue to assert that the Rams could have been running a NY Giants offense for KW here in St. Louis.
    Sheer nonsense. The assertion is that the Rams could have been running, as you put it, a "drawn down version" of the offense for KW as they did for MB. Just because KW might have suffered side effects from his injuries, doesn't excuse the Rams from making the adjustments for KW like they did for MB so KW didn't find himself in the same predicament over and over again. If they could "draw it down" for MB they could have "drawn it down" for KW. Then the comparisons between KW's and MB' ability to exploit the system would be legitimate inquiries. No amount of statistics will sanitize the stink that still wafts from the FO.

  5. #65
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Quote Originally Posted by afrightertoo
    The assertion is that the Rams could have been running, as you put it, a "drawn down version" of the offense for KW as they did for MB.
    We don't know if Warner would have done well in the offense Bulger was running. The offense, while it did have more focus on protection at times, wasn't as far off from the main version as some people like to think. And while we know Warner's been doing well in NY, the differences between that and what the Rams are and were doing are still pretty significant, IMO.



    Quote Originally Posted by afrightertoo
    If they could "draw it down" for MB they could have "drawn it down" for KW.
    They probably could have, but you tell me. Do you want to alter the offensive gameplan for a guy with little upside, a history of injuries, a cap number that would have kept this team from making key personnel pick-ups when injury hit this season, and someone the team isn't exactly behind?

    Can we both admit that Kurt Warner will probably never get better than he was during the GSOT years? Even if Warner finds season-long success, the odds of it even coming close to what he did individually in St. Louis from '99 through '01 is slim. I think that's a fair conclusion. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not too inclined to change your team's gameplan for a guy who probably isn't going to get drastically better as the seasons progress, is probably only a couple of years away from retirement anyways, and has racked up a list of injuries over his short time behind center.

    The decision seems pretty obvious to me. They could have drawn it down for KW, but considering Warner isn't the kind of weapon he used to be, I don't think there's enough reason to keep the focus on him when you have another talented player on the bench ready to show what he can do.
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  6. #66
    rebel13 Guest

    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Right On Thoey!!

  7. #67
    talkstoangels61 Guest

    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Nic, here it is in a nut shell! If you've never suited up and put on the pads then you and i mean anyone else will never know what this game is about period! Gentlemen,trust me ,it is much easier to sit back and watch a game and try to decipher it ,that it is to suite up and go and play it!............If you have done this in the past you might change your philossophy on the game!(That is play the game)
    Nic ,at no time did i say you were being dis respectful! But, now that i have read some of your previous post i might change my mind! I watch all sports but, it doesn't mean that i have a clue on what the hell is going on!!!!
    And about the age or longivity of being a Ram fan! It's just like growing up! Please have a little respect for your elders! You do tend to argue about MB and Kw a little much IMPO.
    I like golf and i feel that i was a above average athelete but, it doesn't mean that i can play! Okay boxers ,rookies of all sports,etc. How many can excell in thier sport without experience? C'mon dude ,if you have walked the walk then by all means talk your talk but,if you have not then take a chill pill on all of your debates,debates,debates!...........Reminder ,you dont let people know that often that your replies are merely your beliefs!

  8. #68
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Angel, I think it's pretty disrespectful to try and tell me that I will never know what this game is about because I never played it in an organized manner, just as I think it's being disrespectful for you to talk down to me and tell me to have respect for my elders, as if I haven't. I have respect for all posters on this board, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to defend my points of view or challenge their's if I feel they're incorrect. Furthermore, in many of my posts, I emphasize my opinion by saying things like "I think," "to me," or "IMO" (In My Opinion).

    And yes, when you tell me that you "wish I'd respect some of the others opinions" then that's telling me you think I'm being disrespectful. Perhaps you need to reevaluate what you find as being respectful and disrespectful, though. Because apparently to you, anyone standing up and presenting their opinion to someone who differs is not respecting them.
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  9. #69
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    This thread has taken a serious turn for the worse.
    Please have a little respect for your elders!
    When has Nick EVER been disrespectful? I disagree with Nick on a lot of topics, and I mean a lot of topics. And he and I have done a few rounds on most of these topics, but not once have I ever seen him be disrespectful to anyone.
    If you've never suited up and put on the pads then you and i mean anyone else will never know what this game is about period!
    I will wager a guess that of the 1400+ members on this board, there is exactly 0 who have played in the NFL. If I'm wrong, then let me know, but until then I'd say we are all on equal footing as far as "knowing the game" goes.
    C'mon dude ,if you have walked the walk then by all means talk your talk but,if you have not then take a chill pill on all of your debates,debates,debates!...........
    As I said, unless there are former NFL players on this board, I'd say none of us have "walked the walk" and therefore each opinion should have equal importance. And honestly, what is this board, if not a forum for debates. It'd be awful boring if we just sat around agreeing with each other. In the 2 years I've been on this board, I've learned far more from those I've disagreed with than from those I've agreed with.
    Reminder ,you dont let people know that often that your replies are merely your beliefs!
    Should he have to? Isn't it a fair assumption that everything posted by any individual is that individual's beliefs?

    Angels, I see eye to eye with you on several topics and I respect what you have to say. But I don't think Nick respects you any less just because he disagrees with you.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  10. #70
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    I have read many posts over the last year. I started reading Nick's or Burt's? :redface: posts since this past spring just before the "move". He always displays passion, knowledge from observation and research (like most posters/members do! :tongue: ), and sportsmanship/respect with many here on clanram.com and especially respect toward the others on the otherside of the table like moklerman. The two of them have traded the longest winded commentarys I have ever indulged myself to review. They were stubborn but never ugly! :tongue:

    Is he a Rams fan? Sans doute! He has been in favor of retaining Bulger with the hope of the "upside" return in that controversial direction that smartz and the fo decided to take. That stance does not exactly gain instant friends 'round here, I know from my own posts communicating pro winning with crappy stats with Bulger vs the uncertainity of KW. KW has been playing great as of late against cupcake teams in victories. Atl, aints and c-chicks are way better than any of the teams the 'ants have played victoriously imho. I am thrilled that kw is playing better but I support the bulger direction completely. Plain and simple.

    It is pretty safe to say that MB won the 'aints game with about as much courage and abandon that KW exemplified before the unspecial teams and possibly smartz or the st coach totally f^(7ed it up! Bad language but right on the money! We really should be 4-1 for his heroics.

    This joint reeks with opinions like it or not. I learn a lot from the warnerites about a lot of different aspects of the game and about the people who pen them. I don't agree with them much but I appreciate their efforts on making their points or cases known.

    FYI: The teams that the 'ants have played are 10-12 and will be 10-13 after GB loses to Tennessee. Go titans! The Rams opponents in victories are 11-13. Meaningless, but I think KW has played more effectively in a conservative offense. Without the mobility like Bulger has displayed this season, I wonder if Warner would be making the td run agaist the 'aints like his slide he was chided for against gb; and to see mb moving in the pocket vs the c chicks comeback win was awesome too.

    Imho, the fo and smartz made the right decision and in a few years we will have bigger$$$ to spend when the warner contract hangover is gone.
    Both qb's are doing well enough to win: mb still makes mistakes and warner made some untimely slides and int's in the redzone. I see he likes his big TE shockley for some nice touch throws for tds too!

    Like it or not we won when mb was at the helm in 2002 and 2003. We lost when kw was at the helm in 2002 and 2003. There are so many stats to crunch it is mind boggling comparing the two guys. But we won in 2003 which was not pretty and we lost a great game to a near sb champion in the playoffs with a great comeback that will be debated forever because many think that kw would have done better and smartz is an idiot.

    One thing they have in common is that they are prone to providing great comebacks and keep their teams in the game. I can't wait to see kw lead his team to a great comeback victory against a team like the eagles like bulger and the rams did in seattle.

    Whatever it is worth, 2003 and 2004 have been very entertaining after a dismal 2002. Hopefully we will make it back to the sb so stay tuned!

    GO RAMS GO!!!

    It is "all good" for now!

    FLO
    Socrates: Surf to live! and Live to Surf!

  11. #71
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Bison and Fearless, I appreciate the kind words. Perhaps I should add some disclaimer in my sig to avoid these kinds of situations in the future though.
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  12. #72
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Although i can appreciate that having played the game will give you some good insights to some aspects of the game that others may not see, by the same token there is no sign above the ed jones dome or on this board for this matter that says, "ex players opinions only please".

    This game aint played much in my country, the only way I learn more about it is through the debates we have on here so I value all your opinions, nick, angels.

  13. #73
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    SpeaksInTongues61, your opinion about having to "put on the pads" is a load of crappola. I know plenty of women who have forgotten more about football than you know, and I none of them have worn pa... er... football pads.

  14. #74
    talkstoangels61 Guest

    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Now AV,was this called for?..............lmao!.............Hope you didn't mean this. And as far as the comments to Nic.........they weren't meant to be an attack on him! It was meant to let him know that it does have a sugnifiecant value as to knowing the game a little more than to have never played it is all! Maybe i didn't clarify myself enough or didn't type it to some of your understandings. It wasn't a attack.And AV, why is it you seem to attack me?.....lol........Send the women my way! I need all the knowledge i can get! :tongue: .........Stay out of the sun down there in Florida it's wharping your mind!......just kidding!........Hey, maybe if the women have that much knoledge of the game ,we could maybe get a franchise of our own! :tongue:

  15. #75
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: The Giants on Kurt Warner

    Quote Originally Posted by talkstoangels61
    It was meant to let him know that it does have a sugnifiecant value as to knowing the game a little more than to have never played it is all!
    Sometimes I'm sure it does, but I wouldn't say that every person who has played organized football knows more about the sport than those who haven't just because they played the game. That's a huge generalization.
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