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  1. #1
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    The Hawks don't scare me

    Some of the "experts" have started talking up the Seahawks as a potential turnaround team for 2009. I don't see it. In fact, I see the opposite. Look at the ages of their starting lineup (from their current official site depth chart), and this is what you'll notice:

    QB: Matt Hasselbeck - 33
    WR: T.J. Houshmanzadeh - 31
    OT: Walter Jones - 35
    OG: Mike Wahle - 32
    DE: Patrick Kerney - 32
    CB: Ken Lucas - 30
    FS: Brian Russell - 31
    SS: Deon Grant - 30

    8 of 22 starters 30 and over. That's a lot - and there are some really key positions among them, including QB, LT and their top pass rusher.

    While it is possible that a couple of those players (Wahle and Lucas) might be replaced by younger guys, there's no guarantee that the play won't drop off.

    Now... it would be one thing if this was an older team that was still near its peak. But last year, the Seahawks were 28th in the league in total offense and 30th in total defense (the Rams were 27th and 28th). That's a lot of holes to fill.

    I think the "experts" are making WAY too many presumptions. They presume that Matt Hasselbeck will be fine. They presume that Housh won't drop in production despite his age and transition to a new offense. They presume that Walter Jones will stay healthy and play like a Pro Bowl player. They presume that Colin Cole (who was let go by the Packers despite their need for a 3-4 DT) and Cory Redding (who played for the woeful Lions) will turn the run defense around. They presume that Aaron Curry will more than make up for the loss of Julian Peterson. They presume that a group of underperforming first rounders at CB will progress.

    That's a lot of presumptions.

    Bottom line... the Hawks don't scare me.


  2. #2
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    .....but marsupials do.


    ....because they're fast.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #3
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    QB: Matt Hasselbeck - 33
    WR: T.J. Houshmanzadeh - 31
    OT: Walter Jones - 35
    OG: Mike Wahle - 32
    DE: Patrick Kerney - 32
    CB: Ken Lucas - 30
    FS: Brian Russell - 31
    SS: Deon Grant - 30

    8 of 22 starters 30 and over. That's a lot - and there are some really key positions among them, including QB, LT and their top pass rusher.
    Sounds an awful lot like the Rams circa 2004 (9 starters 30 or over), and I think we all know how well that has played out.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  4. #4
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Walter Jones is coming off major surgery. They have the same problem with him that we had with Pace. How do you replace a guy like that? I still think hasselbeck is solid. I always believed that if you could give Hasselbeck Bulger's receivers or give Bulger Hasselbeck's offensive line you would have had a perennial all pro and HOF caliber qb.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    It also isn't known how effective Housh will be without Chad Ocho Cinco lined up across from him.

  6. #6
    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Some of the "experts" have started talking up the Seahawks as a potential turnaround team for 2009. I don't see it. In fact, I see the opposite. Look at the ages of their starting lineup (from their current official site depth chart), and this is what you'll notice:

    QB: Matt Hasselbeck - 33
    WR: T.J. Houshmanzadeh - 31
    OT: Walter Jones - 35
    OG: Mike Wahle - 32
    DE: Patrick Kerney - 32
    CB: Ken Lucas - 30
    FS: Brian Russell - 31
    SS: Deon Grant - 30

    8 of 22 starters 30 and over. That's a lot - and there are some really key positions among them, including QB, LT and their top pass rusher.

    While it is possible that a couple of those players (Wahle and Lucas) might be replaced by younger guys, there's no guarantee that the play won't drop off.

    Now... it would be one thing if this was an older team that was still near its peak. But last year, the Seahawks were 28th in the league in total offense and 30th in total defense (the Rams were 27th and 28th). That's a lot of holes to fill.

    I think the "experts" are making WAY too many presumptions. They presume that Matt Hasselbeck will be fine. They presume that Housh won't drop in production despite his age and transition to a new offense. They presume that Walter Jones will stay healthy and play like a Pro Bowl player. They presume that Colin Cole (who was let go by the Packers despite their need for a 3-4 DT) and Cory Redding (who played for the woeful Lions) will turn the run defense around. They presume that Aaron Curry will more than make up for the loss of Julian Peterson. They presume that a group of underperforming first rounders at CB will progress.

    That's a lot of presumptions.

    Bottom line... the Hawks don't scare me.
    Avenger,

    I don't disagree with your points, but I think you are not seeing the 900# elephant in the room, or rather the missing 900# walrus-Mike Holmgren. The fact that Jim Mora is going to attempt to replace Holmgren as the HC does not any way bode well for the S'Hawks, at least not in the immediate future. In fact, an excellent argument could be made that this may turn out about as well as when Scoot tried to be a HC for the Rams. Recall that it was Holmgren that brought in all of the current players on the SeaHag roster and it is not known if they will respond to Mr. Mora if/when he tries to crack the whip. Mora simply does not carry the weight (pun fully intended) or the cred that a 3-time SB coach like Holmgren did.

    Another factor to consider is that the SeaChickens have a rather anemic running attack. I can't see trying to build a running attack around the likes of Julius Jones and TJ Duckett. By all indications this looks like a major area of weakness. They had better hope that Hass, along with the list of gray beards you mentioned, stays healthy.

    WHAT SAY YE?

  7. #7
    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable View Post
    Avenger,

    I don't disagree with your points, but I think you are not seeing the 900# elephant in the room, or rather the missing 900# walrus-Mike Holmgren. The fact that Jim Mora is going to attempt to replace Holmgren as the HC does not any way bode well for the S'Hawks, at least not in the immediate future. In fact, an excellent argument could be made that this may turn out about as well as when Scoot tried to be a HC for the Rams. Recall that it was Holmgren that brought in all of the current players on the SeaHag roster and it is not known if they will respond to Mr. Mora if/when he tries to crack the whip. Mora simply does not carry the weight (pun fully intended) or the cred that a 3-time SB coach like Holmgren did.


    WHAT SAY YE?
    I agree with this 100%. Jim Mora is a stiff in my opinion. Don't know why I feel that way I just do. Holmgren leaving is huge and to let Mora take over is an even bigger mistake.

  8. #8
    majorram's Avatar
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Mora was their DB coach last year and look how that turned out, they didn't eactly set the world alight, they stuggled mightly, so that guy is going to be UNDER HUGE pressure from the go and frankly I'm pleased I hate Mora, always have after he ran up the score on us in the playoffs in atlanta.....

    I agree with David they don't scare me.. and you can put Kerney on IR straight away, cause there is NO way that he will play 16 games..hes spent the last two on IR.........

    steve
    "The breakfast Club"

  9. #9
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Well, I suppose I should offer a rebuttal to this blasphemous thread.

    I'll start with Mora.

    Tim Ruskell was hired in 2005 as the President/GM and he and Holmgren mixed like oil and water when it comes to personnel. Ruskell has added defense, defense, defense and depleted the talent on Holmgren's baby, his pass-happy offense. Holmgren hired a string of bad DCs who preached read and react when the defense has been built to force the issue. That's why Hawk fans are excited about Mora, Bradley(new DC) and Quinn (ass. DC, DL coach). We finally have a coaching staff that seems to play to the strength of our personnel. To say Mora failed as a secondary coach is an indictment on outgoing DC Marshall more than Mora. You won't find a single Hawk fan who wasn't counting the days to Marshall's firing.

    As for the age issue, we've had more 30+ contributors during the stretch of division titles than we do now. The two I'm concerned about are Kerney (vastly overrated) and Walter Jones (I'll have flags at half staff when he retires). We have early picks from the last three years at DE who haven't lived up to their potential and with the exception of Jackson I don't expect much more this season. Our replacement plan for Jones is in place so the dropoff, big as it will be, won't be an utter disaster at tackle.

    Hasselbeck isn't elite, but he's pretty damn good. He's missed significant time two of the last three years and that is the number one concern for Seattle. If I were looking for the chink in the Hawks armour I'd point more to the questions on the interior OL and how that may affect Hasselbeck's ability to stay healthy.

    This is the time of year when NO team should scare you. As a Rams fan your offseason additions look golden and to this point the 2009 Rams are undefeated. But the Rams don't scare anyone else either. I'm not talking Super Bowl because the Hawks aren't that caliber, but after a spending spree during the FA period and the return of an entire offensive line and a pile of WRs from season ending injuries I think we have as good a shot as any team in this division to win the West.

    I could go on, but I'm trying to be objective. If I start breaking down individuals who I - as a homer - think will be stellar then I'll lose what credibility this board affords Seahawks fans.

    Whatever happens this season, rest assured I hate your team more than anyone else in the West. That's respect.

  10. #10
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    Re: The Hawks don't scare me

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Sounds an awful lot like the Rams circa 2004 (9 starters 30 or over), and I think we all know how well that has played out.
    I was thinking more like the Rams circa 2007-2008. They're coming off a bad season, and their star offensive tackle and quarterback are both coming back from injury-marred seasons. When the team has a down year and the premier talent is turning gray, either you retool for one last charge for glory or you start rebuilding. During the Linehan regime, we tried retooling and didn't get anywhere with it.

    At this point, I don't think any team in the West has done enough to really scare anyone.

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