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  1. #1
    ramsplaya16's Avatar
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    im not worried about martz and the whiners

    when i first heard that martz was going to san fran, i got a little worried, but if you look at his time in detroit, he didnt exactly work miracles.

    2006-2007 ranked 22nd in offense

    2007-2008 ranked 19th in offense

    he did have better recievers in detroit then he does with the whiners, he does have a good back with frank gore, but in 2006-2007 he averaged 70 rushing yards a game, and last year he only averaged 80.

    Martz is a good coordinator, dont get me wrong, but i believe its going to take awhile to get the whiner offense turned around

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  2. #2
    Brain Daddy's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Showing where Detroit's offense ranked under Martz doesn't show the full picture. I think to have an accurate understanding of his impact, you need to compare what Detroit was doing before and after Martz. Obviously don't know how the Lions will fare without Martz, but we can look at the Lions prior to MM as their OC.

    Year YPG(RK) PPG(RK)
    2005 269.9(27) 15.9(28)
    2006 309.3(22) 19.1(21)
    2007 322.9(19) 21.6(16)

    You can see there's a bit of a jump in yardage and scoring when Martz took over. Will Mike Martz turn our O into the GOST reincarnated? Doubtful. Will he improve it? I think so. I think the offense last year under Jim Hostler was dreadful and did not play up to the level of talent available. Under Martz, I expect it to be close to the same level as when it was under Norv Turner. The big thing that will determine Martz's success will be whether or not he tailors his scheme to fit the players we have, or if he'll try to fit a square peg into a round hole and run it like he ran his offenses in St. Louis and Detroit.

    I didn't buy him as a quarterback. He's just so stiff, especially when he drops back to pass. Really stiff. He reminds me of Kurt Warner.
    -- Kevan Barlow on Adam Sandler's performance in The Longest Yard

  3. #3
    Nick_Weasel's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Martz is a terrible fit for SF overall IMO. I believe that the only reason SF brought Martz over was to try to make something out of Alex Smith. Martz is pretty good at grooming QBs, and SF desperately needs Alex Smith to show why he was drafted 1st overall.

    Why else would you bring Martz into a system that relies on a power running game and has possibly the worst receiving corps in the league?

  4. #4
    Rammed's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    You wrote my thoughts Nick......

    I think if you look at the roster you'll have to see it in that light.

    He hasn't got a lot to play with (recieverwise) and the focuspoint will most likely be Gore.
    I have always seen this move as a move for Smith.

    I don't fear them this season, but if there is some connection between martz and smith and the upgrade their system up to their personel I see them improving in the coming years. (and maybe just maybe live up the pre season hype, just like Arizona every year)

  5. #5
    Chris58's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    I don't know if Martz has enough guns to play with in SF. The running game has never been Mike's favorite weapon yet Gore is probably the best one in the ****'s arsenal. Also, if past history is any indication of future outcome, Smith will be in traction by the third week of the season. Mike has never really favored the deep drop. Poor Warner and Kitna were badly beaten up after just a couple of seasons under Mike's three step drop system.

    That being said, the ****'s offense will be better than the previous few years because how could it not be??

  6. #6
    Brain Daddy's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
    Martz is a terrible fit for SF overall IMO. I believe that the only reason SF brought Martz over was to try to make something out of Alex Smith. Martz is pretty good at grooming QBs, and SF desperately needs Alex Smith to show why he was drafted 1st overall.

    Why else would you bring Martz into a system that relies on a power running game and has possibly the worst receiving corps in the league?
    I thought the best candidate for our OC job was Cam Cameron, who ran Norv Turner's system in San Diego, which had similar strenthgs on offense (stud RB, young QB, TE, no WRs). I have no idea if Cameron was considered or even interested in the job, though.

    I'm certain Smith will benefit from Martz, but he isn't guaranteed the starting job this year. This hire was first and foremost to save Nolan's job. I think there's a good chance he'll get the axe if the team does poorly this year.

    I've shown you Detroit prior to Martz, and I don't think I need to tell you what he did in St. Louis. The offense was what held our team back last year. The defense and special teams were good enough that had the offense simply maintained its 2006 form, we'd have probably finished at or above .500. What Nolan needs is instant offense, and there's a good chance that's what he'll get, with or without Alex Smith.

    I didn't buy him as a quarterback. He's just so stiff, especially when he drops back to pass. Really stiff. He reminds me of Kurt Warner.
    -- Kevan Barlow on Adam Sandler's performance in The Longest Yard

  7. #7
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    I think this year in particular will be a difficult transition but that Martz could help the team improve substantially over the next few years if he stays that long. Gore has a different style than Faulk, but I don't think Martz is so rigid that he can't adjust accordingly. In fact, I think Gore could have the best year of his career.

    Martz's system can be very successful, but given the size of the playbook and the importance placed on precision timing, option routes that require the correct read from both receiver and quarterback, and so on I wouldn't be surprised if it takes some time for the team to learn it all. Give him a few years to mold a quarterback, for some of the promising young linemen to hit their prime, and maybe a receiver or two from the draft along the way and the ***** could be a team to watch out for. But I don't think it will be this year.

  8. #8
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Nolan has made no bones about admitting he doesn't know squat about offense, and Martz is probably one of the best offensive coordinators out there. Martz will show Smith the door pretty quickly. I also believe Martz will appeal to York and Nolan will be shown the door as well. Yep, you heard it here first, Martz will get his next head coaching position with the whiners.
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  9. #9
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    The Whiners will be the biggest challenge for Martz yet. The Lions had some talented receivers (Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson) and "Martz guys" that could get it done (Mike Furrey, Shaun McDonald). The Whiners have a bunch of scrubs at wide receiver, with the exception of Ike. Their most talented positions are at RB and TE, the two that Martz ignores the most. It's good that Frank Gore can catch the ball, or else he might not fit into that offense - but he's such a good back, he could produce anywhere as long as he stays healthy. Alex Smith must be receptive to Martz's philosophy or else he will be on his way out of SF and become a career backup. Be ready for some more temper tantrums from Vernon Davis.

    If Martz can adjust his scheme a little bit to give more opportunities to Gore and Davis, and Alex Smith picks up the playbook quickly, there's a chance they could be dangerous this year. IMO I don't think that'll happen. It may take two or three years for Martz to get this offense rolling, and I doubt he will be given that much time with Mike Nolan on the hot seat (unless, like BRM suggests, he'll be Nolan's successor).
    Last edited by evil disco man; -05-27-2008 at 12:07 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris58 View Post
    I don't know if Martz has enough guns to play with in SF. The running game has never been Mike's favorite weapon yet Gore is probably the best one in the ****'s arsenal. Also, if past history is any indication of future outcome, Smith will be in traction by the third week of the season. Mike has never really favored the deep drop. Poor Warner and Kitna were badly beaten up after just a couple of seasons under Mike's three step drop system.

    That being said, the ****'s offense will be better than the previous few years because how could it not be??
    Martz is always accused of negating the running game but answer me this, if Martz forgot the running game, how did Marshall get all those yards?

  11. #11
    Chris58's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Martz is always accused of negating the running game but answer me this, if Martz forgot the running game, how did Marshall get all those yards?
    Tx, I think Marshall was a special talent. Martz didn't have that kind of running back in Detroit and his running game almost disappeared there. That being said, your point is well taken, but Marshall's great run success with Martz's offense came because opposing teams feared the pass so much that they overloaded with DB's on defense with fewer run stopping defenders. As I recall, most of Marshall's carries were draws, delays and other plays off the pass.

    This doesn't mean that Martz can't or wont use the run, but it is definitely 2nd and 3rd choice in his playbook. Gore is good, but with few receivers to brag about, I'm not sure the ****'s will be a dominant offensive team with Martz's playbook this year.
    Last edited by Chris58; -05-27-2008 at 03:35 PM. Reason: used the wrong word

  12. #12
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Wasn't it the game against the Eagles in the NFC Championship that Marshall ran the ball a million times consecutively? I know a million is a slight exaggeration and I hate to go look up anything on the web just verify I know what I'm talking about. You shouldn't have to do that on every dad gum thread you post to but you know my point. Martz ran the ball when it was effective to run the ball. Heck, if you had Bruce in his prime, a young Holt and Hakim, sure handed Proehl, and Faulk wouldn't you throw the ball?

  13. #13
    Chris58's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    I'm just looking at history, Tx. Knowing Martz I think he's pass heavy to a greater degree than most if not all OC's in the NFL. I think I read where he learned at the knee of Don "Air" Coryell and got the nickname "Mad" Mike not from running up the gut but from passing a lot with 4 and five receiver sets. Personally, I love that. I just think that it won't be easy for Martz to get away from the pass orientation that he has and that it might not make that big an impact with the SF team, that's all.

  14. #14
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    I agree but what I'm interested in is how he uses the TE Davis. That should be interesting.

  15. #15
    bigredman's Avatar
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    Re: im not worried about martz and the whiners

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Martz is always accused of negating the running game but answer me this, if Martz forgot the running game, how did Marshall get all those yards?
    Because Marshall is scary talented, one of the 10 best running backs of all time in the NFL! He made the most of the few opportunities he got by artistically selecting his running lanes, exploding through the holes, then cutting back into the secondary that was sitting back in anticipation of the wide open passing attack, and gliding by defenders with gazelle-like open field running.
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